# Mad-Men 3.08, Souvenir (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 5, 2009, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-08-souvenir-open-spoilers/512621 "2009-10-05T01:55:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-08-souvenir-open-spoilers/512621/41 "2009-10-05T20:03:05Z")
Dick Whitman vs. Don Draper: I think even though Don has left Dick behind, and achieved everything ‘Don’ should in life (the beautiful wife, the American dream) - inside, he is still Dick Whitman, living a lie. The damage done to him growing up is still there. Wearing an expensive suit and having a pile of money does not remove the damage done to the screwed up Dick Whitman. (I say this because _I_ suffered early in life from…stuff. Though I made out pretty well in life (husband, brilliant daughter, house in the 'burbs, jewelry, car, and can buy within reason whatever it is I want to buy - material things don’t necessarily make one happy.) That’s the problem with both Don and Betty - the outer does not satisfy the inner. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Weird\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@The\_Weird\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Weird_One)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-08-souvenir-open-spoilers/512621/42 "2009-10-05T20:57:13Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > Dick Whitman vs. Don Draper: > > I think even though Don has left Dick behind, and achieved everything ‘Don’ should in life (the beautiful wife, the American dream) - inside, he is still Dick Whitman, living a lie. The damage done to him growing up is still there. Wearing an expensive suit and having a pile of money does not remove the damage done to the screwed up Dick Whitman. (I say this because _I_ suffered early in life from…stuff. Though I made out pretty well in life (husband, brilliant daughter, house in the 'burbs, jewelry, car, and can buy within reason whatever it is I want to buy - material things don’t necessarily make one happy.) That’s the problem with both Don and Betty - the outer does not satisfy the inner. Wow, this hits home for me, because it reminds me a lot of my mother. She had a severely damaged childhood and adolescence, and although she’s achieved a lot, I don’t think she’s entirely happy with who she is. She seems like a very happy person by nature, but I when I visited my dad recently, he pulled out some old slides of my mom that he’d taken when they were dating in the 70s. There’s my mom looking like a back-to-nature flower child, a completely different person than the middle-class mother and struggling writer I knew as a child, and since then she’s completely changed her persona yet again, into a New Age Christian Mystic living in Central America. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-08-souvenir-open-spoilers/512621/43 "2009-10-05T21:37:39Z")
> [@The\_Weird\_One](#): > > Wow, this hits home for me, because it reminds me a lot of my mother. She had a severely damaged childhood and adolescence, and although she’s achieved a lot, I don’t think she’s entirely happy with who she is. She seems like a very happy person by nature, but I when I visited my dad recently, he pulled out some old slides of my mom that he’d taken when they were dating in the 70s. There’s my mom looking like a back-to-nature flower child, a completely different person than the middle-class mother and struggling writer I knew as a child, and since then she’s completely changed her persona yet again, into a New Age Christian Mystic living in Central America. Wow! (Wish MY mother would take off for Central America!) A New Age Christian Mystic isn’t all that far removed from her flower-child roots, is it? Funny how the social pressure to Achieve The American Dream overrides and stifles so many peoples inner longings. … I wouldn’t be a bit surprised to find out that someday ‘Don’ disappears from the rat race and ends up, say, working with his hands at something, or drifts around the country, or becomes a writer. ---
**Author:** ![MaddyStrut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@MaddyStrut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaddyStrut)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-08-souvenir-open-spoilers/512621/44 "2009-10-06T00:33:18Z")
> [@niblet\_head](#): > > She has no purpose, except to be a beautiful housewife and mother. Neither of which she particularly enjoys or is engaged by. My sense is that she did was expected of her and she resents the hell out of it. She’d much rather be a rich, kept woman who travels to London and Rome than an upper-middle class homemaker who has uninspiring friends, and a boring suburban life. The only thing she had to even get pumped up about was the resevoir, and now that’s done. On the one hand, she’s remarkably under-utilized. On the other, she doesn’t want any responsibilities that don’t interest her. > > Lakai, I was also going to recommend The Femine Mystique! She’s a beautiful housewife and mother in a loveless marriage. Not only does her husband cheat on her, they’re in no way partners with all his secrets and not letting her into his life. I’ve seen many marriages that work after the initial spark fades, but usually those people are partners who respect and support each other. Betty and Don don’t have that. They have an empty shell. Also, what I saw in Rome was that Don only wants Betty when he’s pursuing her. Betty only wants Don when he’s pursuing her. Once they both have each other, the thrill is gone, and there’s nothing to take it’s place. The charm was just a reminder of that. I don’t think Betty knows what she wants. She has so much potential (she’s gorgeous, speaks fluent Italian, is sophisticated and intelligent). But my suspicion is that she wants a challenge then loses interest once it’s accomplished. I don’t know if she’d be happier in a marriage to someone who adored her (which Don does not) or if she’d be equally bored and frustrated. Whatever she wants, she’s not getting it now. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-08-souvenir-open-spoilers/512621/45 "2009-10-06T10:03:44Z")
Quite recently, Betty tartly informed Bobby that only boring people got bored. She dresses up nice but I’m finding the bored housewife story a bit boring. More Joan! More Sal! ---
**Author:** ![lalenin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@lalenin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lalenin)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-08-souvenir-open-spoilers/512621/46 "2009-10-06T19:17:01Z")
Did anyone else notice Pete reading Ebony magazine in his office? It looks like he might make another push for marketing to ‘the blacks’. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-08-souvenir-open-spoilers/512621/47 "2009-10-06T21:41:34Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I think in last week’s thread, someone suggested that the show was about Don’s existential crisis and whether he wanted to continue to be Don Draper or give it all up and run away. I was going to ask this then, but forgot. I can’t understand why Don would _want_ to give it all up. > > I mean, Dick Whitman didn’t have much to look forward to, except for returning to that horrible family. But as Don Draper, he’s achieved the American dream; beautiful wife, 2 1/2 kids, house in the suburbs (even if it is Ossining), good job and a pile of money in the bank. What’s not to like? That was me, I think. Why isn’t he happy with what he’s got? Well, possibly because what he’s got isn’t what he really wants - it’s what he _thinks_ he wants. Do you remember a few episodes ago when Don was at the outdoor event, and the episode ended with him wistfully running his fingers through the grass as he sat and watched? What I got from that was that deep inside, he still longs for the simplicity of life on a farm. He’s connected with it. Now he’s an urbane, sophisticated man, with a sophisticated wife. But there was a scene last season where he was with Dick Whitman’s wife, after he had told her who he was, and I was struck by how happy he was there. He could be himself, she lived in a small little house, and he just seemed comfortable and relaxed. In his current life, he’s always ‘on’. He can’t let his guard down, he can’t be who he really is. And it turns out that all the material comforts don’t really make him all that happy. Notice that he doesn’t drive sports cars, or have a big boat, or even that impressive of a house for someone who is worth close to a million dollars (big money in 1963). None of that really means anything to him. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-08-souvenir-open-spoilers/512621/48 "2009-10-07T14:34:24Z")
Whole lotta kissin’ in this episode. Set 2 months after the baby’s birth. Betty didn’t have sex with “Don” in Rome. She had sex with some guy she picked up. Once back home, the real Don didn’t do it for her. In fact, he killed her fantasy by giving her the charm which reminded her that she actually had sex with her husband. Pete is a super King Kamehameha bitch. Why would a standard Hilton hotel room in Rome in 1963 have a phone on each side of the bed? There was report that Bryan “Sal” Batt was marrying his partner, but it has been [denied](http://www.seattlepi.com/tvguide/410865_tvgif6.html) now. Neidermeyer? ---
**Author:** ![jellyblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e480ec/32.png) [@jellyblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jellyblue)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-08-souvenir-open-spoilers/512621/49 "2009-10-07T15:26:00Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Neidermeyer? [Animal House](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077975/). I can’t believe how old I - I mean, that movie is! ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-08-souvenir-open-spoilers/512621/50 "2009-10-07T16:44:48Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Why would a standard Hilton hotel room in Rome in 1963 have a phone on each side of the bed? I sure don’t know, but it struck me that Hilton wanted the Drapers to report on their experience, and I wondered how accurate it would be. A guest who speaks the language might have a different experience than one who doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![jellyblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e480ec/32.png) [@jellyblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jellyblue)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-08-souvenir-open-spoilers/512621/51 "2009-10-07T16:58:32Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I sure don’t know, but it struck me that Hilton wanted the Drapers to report on their experience, and I wondered how accurate it would be. A guest who speaks the language might have a different experience than one who doesn’t. My guess is guests who don’t LOOK like Betty & Don might have a considerably different experience too. In life. About everything. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-08-souvenir-open-spoilers/512621/52 "2009-10-07T16:59:02Z")
I know who Neidermeyer, a.k.a. The Maestro, is, I just hadn’t spotted him and the imdb listings don’t include him (yet). But I finally found out he played the mayor. Neat trick. No motion/second/all in favor. So officially nothing has been put on hold, it just sounds like they did. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-08-souvenir-open-spoilers/512621/53 "2009-10-07T19:38:01Z")
This episode was especially interesting to me because the stand in for Rome was… well, I spend a lot of time there. It’s not as shiny in real life. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-08-souvenir-open-spoilers/512621/54 "2009-10-07T19:58:55Z")
What did Don do with his half million dollars? Apart from Betty redecorating the living room, I haven’t seen much of an uptick in their lifestyle. And the view from the hotel room was icky. Is that what Rome is like? ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-08-souvenir-open-spoilers/512621/55 "2009-10-07T20:06:26Z")
Don probably told Betty the profit was one-fifty and kept the other three-fifty in a bank account she can’t access. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-08-souvenir-open-spoilers/512621/56 "2009-10-07T20:43:01Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > What did Don do with his half million dollars? Apart from Betty redecorating the living room, I haven’t seen much of an uptick in their lifestyle. Me neither. Did he get it in cash or shares? Does anyone else think the outside of the house doesn’t match with the inside? I’ve never been inside that style of house (Early American? Federal?) but the bedrooms are quite small, and so is the kitchen. Does that style of house have lots of small rooms? (I do understand that the show isn’t filmed inside that house.) ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-08-souvenir-open-spoilers/512621/57 "2009-10-07T20:43:50Z")
> [@niblet\_head](#): > > Don probably told Betty the profit was one-fifty and kept the other three-fifty in a bank account she can’t access. I suspect that Betty gets told _nothing_ about how much Don makes, and cannot access any of what is in the bank account. She’s probably got an allowance, and Don just pays the bills for whatever she charges. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-08-souvenir-open-spoilers/512621/58 "2009-10-07T20:47:37Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I sure don’t know, but it struck me that Hilton wanted the Drapers to report on their experience, and I wondered how accurate it would be. A guest who speaks the language might have a different experience than one who doesn’t. Connie didn’t know Betty was coming until the last minute and I don’t see any reason why he’d known she spoke fluent Italian until after he met her. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-08-souvenir-open-spoilers/512621/59 "2009-10-07T20:49:05Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > Me neither. Did he get it in cash or shares? > > Does anyone else think the outside of the house doesn’t match with the inside? I’ve never been inside that style of house (Early American? Federal?) but the bedrooms are quite small, and so is the kitchen. Does that style of house have lots of small rooms? > > (I do understand that the show isn’t filmed inside that house.) I think a lot of houses of that era have much smaller rooms than we’re used to these days. What distracts me is the modern choices on the exterior paint. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-08-souvenir-open-spoilers/512621/60 "2009-10-07T20:55:36Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > I suspect that Betty gets told _nothing_ about how much Don makes, and cannot access any of what is in the bank account. She’s probably got an allowance, and Don just pays the bills for whatever she charges. When they were separated, she was endorsing his paycheck ($950, IIRC) so I think she has an idea. She didn’t know about the contract though, until Roger called. So is this just Don being A Man and not wanting to bother Pretty Little Wifey with the pesky details, or does he think Betty herself is incapable of handling finances? (And if that fainting couch is any indication, I don’t blame him.) Don doesn’t seem one to care much for the trappings of wealth. They can certainly afford to install AC in their house, but he’s not interested. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-08-souvenir-open-spoilers/512621.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-08-souvenir-open-spoilers/512621.md?page=4)