# Mad-Men 3.12, The Grown-Ups (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 2, 2009, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-12-the-grown-ups-open-spoilers/516016 "2009-11-02T02:49:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-12-the-grown-ups-open-spoilers/516016/21 "2009-11-03T05:57:48Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > I had the same question. I think the heated discussion with Lane was about his firing of the art director without telling Done. So who was the candidate? Something they cut out and failed to update the ep guide? I believe Don fired Sal personally after orders from Roger & Bert Cooper. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-12-the-grown-ups-open-spoilers/516016/22 "2009-11-03T06:02:41Z")
> [@astro](#): > > I believe Don fired Sal personally after orders from Roger & Bert Cooper. Don upheld the firing, but he didn’t initiate it. Roger fired Sal on the spot during the meeting with the tobacco guy. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-12-the-grown-ups-open-spoilers/516016/23 "2009-11-03T06:03:36Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > BTW, I liked Don’s explanation for coming in to work on a national day of mourning, “The bars were closed.” Although the real reason was that he wanted to get away from Betty for the day. > > And considering that Don didn’t say anything explicitly about the Aquanet ad, have they realized that they have to change it? He didn’t have to say anything, that one shot from the storyboard looked like a frame from the Zabruder film. He just turned it face down and shook his head. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-12-the-grown-ups-open-spoilers/516016/24 "2009-11-03T08:05:24Z")
Anyone want to comment on a possible anachronism? Roger and Joan had this exchange on the phone: > [@](#): > > Roger: No one else is saying the right thing about this. > Joan: You’re really upset. > Roger: **What’s that about?** > Joan: Because there’s nothing funny about this. My wife and i were both under the impression that the bolded phrase, in the way it was used here, is of rather more recent vintage than 1963. I wasn’t born yet, and i can’t think of a way to really check. Anyone have any thoughts on the matter? ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-12-the-grown-ups-open-spoilers/516016/25 "2009-11-03T13:10:49Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > He didn’t have to say anything, that one shot from the storyboard looked like a frame from the Zabruder film. He just turned it face down and shook his head. I think that is why Peggy was there. Don didn’t need to tell her anything, she was already working to come up with something else. She mentioned that they still had time. The story board was only shown to remind the audience. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-12-the-grown-ups-open-spoilers/516016/26 "2009-11-03T13:32:08Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Anyone want to comment on a possible anachronism? > > Roger and Joan had this exchange on the phone:My wife and i were both under the impression that the bolded phrase, in the way it was used here, is of rather more recent vintage than 1963. I wasn’t born yet, and i can’t think of a way to really check. Anyone have any thoughts on the matter? This was quite jarring to me. I also have no clue how to find out when this phrase came about but I associate it with Jerry Seinfeld. I don’t usually get too nit picky about these sort of mistakes but that sure took me out of the scene for a second. ---
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-12-the-grown-ups-open-spoilers/516016/27 "2009-11-03T13:44:08Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > This was quite jarring to me. I also have no clue how to find out when this phrase came about but I associate it with Jerry Seinfeld. I don’t usually get too nit picky about these sort of mistakes but that sure took me out of the scene for a second. I don’t know about the vintage of “What’s that about?”, but Seinfeld certainly popularized (or overused) “What’s with that?”. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-12-the-grown-ups-open-spoilers/516016/28 "2009-11-03T13:56:35Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > He didn’t have to say anything, that one shot from the storyboard looked like a frame from the Zabruder film. He just turned it face down and shook his head. Peggy said that (and I paraphrase) “it won’t run until December so it should be ok by then, right?” ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-12-the-grown-ups-open-spoilers/516016/29 "2009-11-03T14:03:04Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I’m also a little surprised by the poll results. Season 1 and 2 were amazing TV. This season I haven’t been anything near impressed by any of it. I’ve been waiting for Don to leap out with energy, charm, and mystique again, and he just hasn’t. I thought they might try switching to the other characters if they’d run out of things to do with Don, but they -really- haven’t. Rather, they threw several of their characters out and simply continued to follow Don around doing nothing of much note. Joan has been in episodes with about as much frequency as her character previously was. And Sal is sure to come back in _some_ way in the final episode. Duck is still around. Heck, even the killer secretary is still around. Basically the only one they got rid of was the drunk who pissed himself, and that was _way_ back. They have focused more on Betty this season, though. (Unfortunately, I find her storylines to be utterly uncompelling.) However, I’d say “Guy Walks Into An Advertising Agency” matched anything from season 1 or 2. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-12-the-grown-ups-open-spoilers/516016/30 "2009-11-03T14:38:51Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Joan has been in episodes with about as much frequency as her character previously was. And Sal is sure to come back in _some_ way in the final episode. Duck is still around. Heck, even the killer secretary is still around. Basically the only one they got rid of was the drunk who pissed himself, and that was _way_ back. > > They have focused more on Betty this season, though. (Unfortunately, I find her storylines to be utterly uncompelling.) > > However, I’d say “Guy Walks Into An Advertising Agency” matched anything from season 1 or 2. The “previews” for the last episode consist of clips from previous shows–not one second of anything new. Reviewers haven’t gotten advance copies. Maybe they’re planning on really ending the season with a bang. Didn’t Pete score some Military/Industrial Complex clients out in California? The Brits arrive to finalize the sale of SC. Champagne flows. Lois gets her hands on a rocket launcher… ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-12-the-grown-ups-open-spoilers/516016/31 "2009-11-03T14:51:38Z")
I agree with **Sage Rat**. Certainly I can understand why the series would focus on its marquee character and actor, but at one point I was watching Pete wondering what all those talented other actors do all day with no lines or story lines. I hope next season we get back to a better mix of Don and the rest of the fascinating crew. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-12-the-grown-ups-open-spoilers/516016/32 "2009-11-03T15:31:23Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > The “previews” for the last episode consist of clips from previous shows–not one second of anything new. Reviewers haven’t gotten advance copies. Maybe they’re planning on really ending the season with a bang. Really, I thought that was better, anyway. The usual “previews” may as well come headlined: “And now, we’re going to lie to you about next week.” ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-12-the-grown-ups-open-spoilers/516016/33 "2009-11-03T16:30:12Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Really, I thought that was better, anyway. The usual “previews” may as well come headlined: “And now, we’re going to lie to you about next week.” I can picture Weiner laughing maniacally as he prepares the usual “preview.” Which bit shall he snip out of the episode? How will he arrange them to create maximum confusion. In the preview, you see Character A say something; Character B replies. In the episode, you see Character A speaking to Character X; Character B replies to Character Y. But I still like him because the show is so good… ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-12-the-grown-ups-open-spoilers/516016/34 "2009-11-03T20:05:37Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > …One thing I noticed though was that it seemed to be mostly the women who were all rolling about crying. The men seemed to act like I would expect most people to act: They sat about figuring out how this was going to effect business but otherwise didn’t seem to care about… It was the same thing last season when Marilyn Monroe died. All the women in the office were visibly upset and crying. Except for Peggy who’s reaction was basically “This is sad. It’s a good thing we didn’t to the Jackie/Marilyn campaign (for Maidenform bras) or we’d have to pull of the ads”. I think Don was a little taken aback, but impressed when he heard Peggy say that. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-12-the-grown-ups-open-spoilers/516016/35 "2009-11-04T15:45:37Z")
Did anyone find the beginning a bit choppy? We cut rather quickly from Pete to Don to Duck to Peggy. Considing the usual smoothness of the show, I found that a bit off-putting. I was also surprised by Don’s reaction to Betty (well, maybe not.) Your wife just found out you’ve been lying to her for years, she tells you she doesn’t love you anymore, feels nothing when she kisses you, and you write it off that she’s distraught and not thinking clearly and dismiss her? Yeesh, even the next morning, when he left for work, the kids could tell there was something wrong. I submit Betty and Henry may do some heavy necking, but she won’t sleep with him. Not until (or unless) she divorces Don. She’s a Nice Girl. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-12-the-grown-ups-open-spoilers/516016/36 "2009-11-04T16:40:45Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > I was also surprised by Don’s reaction to Betty (well, maybe not.) Your wife just found out you’ve been lying to her for years, she tells you she doesn’t love you anymore, feels nothing when she kisses you, and you write it off that she’s distraught and not thinking clearly and dismiss her? That wasn’t Don’s reaction. Don’s reaction was when he went into the bedroom alone and looked absolutely wrecked, and when he went into the office alone just to get away from the problem. What Don was _saying_ to Betty was panic – he was saying she was distraught and not thinking clearly because that was what he _hoped_ was the case. When she confronts him with “You can’t even hear me” he tells her “No, Ii can’t, not now” and flees. He wasn’t able to handle it. I think he’s been dismissing her all along, but now that he was forced otherwise, he’s at an utter loss as to what to do. He’d been walking on eggshells, hoping the Dick incident had blown over. Finding out it hadn’t, he’s as lost as he was when she first found out his secret. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-12-the-grown-ups-open-spoilers/516016/37 "2009-11-04T16:44:28Z")
That’s a good take on it, thank you. Don’s reaction to the JFK assassination…nothing’s wrong, everything will be fine…ties into that. He doesn’t know how to handle it, so he ignores the ramifications of it. (Can someone give me a history lesson? How did the country feel about LBJ becoming president?) ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-12-the-grown-ups-open-spoilers/516016/38 "2009-11-04T17:06:32Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > (Can someone give me a history lesson? How did the country feel about LBJ becoming president?) Johnson was sort of an anti-Kennedy. Perceived as crude, uneducated and corrupt. Nicknamed “Landslide Lyndon” for a dubious win in the 1948 Senate race. Also, let’s face it, the man wasn’t handsome. It was such a noticable turnaround from JFK. This was the height of the Cold War. Tensions were high. The Cuban Missile Crisis was quite recent. Given that Oswald’s Russian/Cuban connections came out right away, people thought this might have been a Red plot and we would have to go to war, with nukes, over it. So LBJ quickly tried to assure everyone that evening after the return to Washington that the government was going to continue on the same course. The press highlighted this to try and calm nerves. Also, since it all took place in Texas, LBJ’s state, people also wondered if he had something to do with it. For years afterwards people kept commenting on how Dallas was the perfect place to do this given the corruption and ineptitude. They made a perfect mess of the investigation. * * * Note that the info Betty now has on Don changes the whole divorce dynamics. She can threaten to “out” him unless he gives her what she wants. So he admits adultery, gives her the house, the kids, alimony, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-12-the-grown-ups-open-spoilers/516016/39 "2009-11-04T17:14:13Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > I submit Betty and Henry may do some heavy necking, but she won’t sleep with him. Not until (or unless) she divorces Don. She’s a Nice Girl. When she’s not screwing random guys in the coatroom, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-12-the-grown-ups-open-spoilers/516016/40 "2009-11-04T17:20:29Z")
Yeah, but she was drunk! 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-12-the-grown-ups-open-spoilers/516016.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-3-12-the-grown-ups-open-spoilers/516016.md?page=3)