# Mad-Men: 4.05 "The Chrysanthemum and the Sword" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 23, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-05-the-chrysanthemum-and-the-sword-open-spoilers/551119 "2010-08-23T01:27:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-05-the-chrysanthemum-and-the-sword-open-spoilers/551119/1 "2010-08-23T01:27:50Z")
[QUOTE=AMC] Don and Pete go against Roger in efforts to win a new account. [/QUOTE] Based on the [sneak peek](http://www.amctv.com/videos/mad-men/?bcpid=8803972001&bclid=194035343001&bctid=558036364001) it looks like we haven’t seen the last of Miss Blankenship. ---
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-05-the-chrysanthemum-and-the-sword-open-spoilers/551119/2 "2010-08-23T02:51:49Z")
Poor Sally. Am also upset that Faye is single. I predict relationship-hood between her and Don. Ugh. Se gets on my nerves. ---
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-05-the-chrysanthemum-and-the-sword-open-spoilers/551119/3 "2010-08-23T02:52:52Z")
Oh yeah, in general, ep is terrific so far. One of the best of the season (although I guess there’s only been five). Really like the psychologist, too. Seems much better than the dude Betty was seeing in season 1. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-05-the-chrysanthemum-and-the-sword-open-spoilers/551119/4 "2010-08-23T03:09:26Z")
> [@Gestalt](#): > > Poor Sally. To the contrary, she might actually get the help she needs. And yes, it was a good episode. I enjoyed Roger’s outburst and then Don’s little caper. (But his secretary needs to learn how to use the equipment and a little discretion.) ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-05-the-chrysanthemum-and-the-sword-open-spoilers/551119/5 "2010-08-23T03:12:14Z")
Jesus, every single episode this season has had some majorly cringe-inducing scenes. I don’t remember it ever being this consistently awkward before. I was literally covering my face with my hands and groaning out loud when Roger was insulting the Japanese businessmen. And then cut immediately to Sally on the couch OH LAWD. But on the flip side, we got to see Pete tell Roger off righteously and Don being devious and kick ass… wow, what an episode. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-05-the-chrysanthemum-and-the-sword-open-spoilers/551119/6 "2010-08-23T03:16:39Z")
After this and the whole blackface serenade, Roger is pretty much the King Of Awkward. Don’s hijinks were so awesome I didn’t even mind that we had to put up with Betty scenes. Loved that the psych saw right through Betty, though. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-05-the-chrysanthemum-and-the-sword-open-spoilers/551119/7 "2010-08-23T03:20:37Z")
Best episode this season. Heck, one of the best episodes period. It was fun, funny, had awkward cringe moments, had Roger ready to take a swing at Peter and Don back to his genius self. Everything I loved about the show wrapped into this episode. “Not very subtle, are they?” “No, they are not” ---
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-05-the-chrysanthemum-and-the-sword-open-spoilers/551119/8 "2010-08-23T03:26:04Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > oved that the psych saw right through Betty, though. Actually I thought the psych did a really good job of responding to Betty’s concern about Sally acting out to punish her. “What a terrible way to feel.” It really validates and addresses Betty’s concerns. It sounds a lot like modern talk therapy. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-05-the-chrysanthemum-and-the-sword-open-spoilers/551119/9 "2010-08-23T03:35:13Z")
> [@Gestalt](#): > > It really validates and addresses Betty’s concerns. It sounds a lot like modern talk therapy. You would know, with that Username. 🙂 It did, which surprised me. And doesn’t Dr. Edna look a lot like the housemother from _The Facts of Life_? And wasn’t her name also Edna? On an even more shallow note, I was wondering how that scene was directed. I assume the actress didn’t know what she was supposed to be doing. How old is she? Younger than Linda Blair? ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-05-the-chrysanthemum-and-the-sword-open-spoilers/551119/10 "2010-08-23T03:35:59Z")
Betty didn’t even take Sally to her first therapy appointment. She had Carla bring her. The actress who plays Carla is amazing. No words and only a few moments on screen and she told a whole story. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-05-the-chrysanthemum-and-the-sword-open-spoilers/551119/11 "2010-08-23T03:41:57Z")
Hey, who _was_ the person Roger said they should just bring in when he was raging about the Japanese? Dr. Someone-someone? Presumably someone related to the war. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-05-the-chrysanthemum-and-the-sword-open-spoilers/551119/12 "2010-08-23T03:46:20Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Hey, who _was_ the person Roger said they should just bring in when he was raging about the Japanese? Dr. Someone-someone? Presumably someone related to the war. My first thought when Pete asked who he was–oh, Joan’ll go Google it. :smack: 😛 ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-05-the-chrysanthemum-and-the-sword-open-spoilers/551119/13 "2010-08-23T04:00:41Z")
[quote=“AuntiePam, post:9, topic:551119”] > [@Gestalt](#): > > …It did, which surprised me. And doesn’t Dr. Edna look a lot like the housemother from _The Facts of Life_? And wasn’t her name also Edna?.. I think the actress is also in **True Blood**. I loved Betty accusing Don of “corrupting” their daughter by dating. Don’s never introduced any of his “lady friends” to his kids, Betty brought a strange man into the family home and is fucking him in the same bed she did their father. And we still don’t know how Betty handled introducing Henry to the kids. I wouldn’t be surprised if she remarried before leaving Reno and just told Sally and Bobby “This is your new stepfather” as he’s moving in. Peggy riding the motorcylce around the empty soundstage was another great sight gag. When Rival Ad Guy started talking about “the kid who used to work for Draper” at first I thouht Kinsey was going to show up (though he’s a little old to be a kid). I was suprised to see Smitty. The “boyfriend” comment also suggests Kurt is still paired with him. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-05-the-chrysanthemum-and-the-sword-open-spoilers/551119/14 "2010-08-23T04:12:04Z")
I thought by “boyfriend” the guy meant Don Draper, since Smitty was so complimentary of him. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-05-the-chrysanthemum-and-the-sword-open-spoilers/551119/15 "2010-08-23T04:20:00Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I thought by “boyfriend” the guy meant Don Draper, since Smitty was so complimentary of him. Likewise. He was peeved that Smitty never referred to _him_ as a genius. ---
**Author:** ![LVBoPeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/858c86/32.png) [@LVBoPeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LVBoPeep)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-05-the-chrysanthemum-and-the-sword-open-spoilers/551119/16 "2010-08-23T04:38:17Z")
This is the first episode this season that I upgraded to “loved”. I do like seeing Betty and kids though, so that may have something to do with it. Betty is the person I love to hate. She reminds me so much of a close friend’s mother (who turned out rather well, considering) and I think Sally is one of the more interesting characters on the show. Loved that Don seems to be back on his game! ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-05-the-chrysanthemum-and-the-sword-open-spoilers/551119/17 "2010-08-23T04:41:07Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > > [@Gestalt](#): > > > > Poor Sally. > > To the contrary, she might actually get the help she needs. So might Betty, as others have mentioned. Ms. Blankenship can’t possibly last very long as Don’s secretary, but I hope she does–she’s absolutely hilarious in her truly epic ineptitude. A few random thoughts: You know, Mad Men can do a hell of a caper/heist episode, can’t it? The Japanese reaction to Joan was priceless. In turn, Joan’s little piece with Roger–you fought to make the world a safer place, and now it is–was also lovely in an entirely different way. Betty is as teeth-grating as she ever was. Maybe Henry can soften her a little bit. Still, I will continue to just-plain-hate her. Sally’s another story entirely. I feel for the kid. Good ep, overall, especially the caper side of it. Have we seen the last of whatzisname, the fellow from the competition? ---
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-05-the-chrysanthemum-and-the-sword-open-spoilers/551119/18 "2010-08-23T05:02:38Z")
You know, I’ve read this in several places, probably including this message board, but it’s a thought I’d like to vocalize once more: it sort of frustrates me how Weiner is making Betty out to be such a terrible mother (and sometimes just a terrible person), because I think it often leads to the audience giving Don a “pass” for his terrible behavior in the marriage, primarily as a husband but also as a father. In terms of the marriage, Betty was really the one that was wronged, but because she’s so awful this season, we end up sympathizing with Don. At least she was there with the kids every day (or almost every day), fixed them meals (at least the ones Carla didn’t fix), probably bandaged up skinned knees, etc. While Don isn’t actively abusive, he is totally absent. ---
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-05-the-chrysanthemum-and-the-sword-open-spoilers/551119/19 "2010-08-23T05:05:24Z")
Oh yeah, did anyone else think it was interesting that Don called Betty, “Bets,” when he dropped the kids off? And right in front of Henry too! Seems like a bit of an intimate nickname for an ex-wife . . . ---
**Author:** ![Zen\_Postman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4da419/32.png) [@Zen\_Postman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zen_Postman)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-05-the-chrysanthemum-and-the-sword-open-spoilers/551119/20 "2010-08-23T05:10:16Z")
Sally was masturbating to…Ducky Mallard? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-05-the-chrysanthemum-and-the-sword-open-spoilers/551119.md?page=2)