# Mad-Men: 4.08 "The Summer Man" (open spoiler) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 13, 2010, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550 "2010-09-13T01:08:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/61 "2010-09-13T20:10:42Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > …And Don? the proper response was “You mean MY garage attached to MY house that you’ve been living in for the last eight months like a couple of squatters?”… Henry asked Don if he wanted him to just put it in storage and deduct the cost from the _rent_. So the Francises have at least started paying rent since episode 4.01. It was nice to see [del]Cutthroat Bitch[/del] [del]Lura Grant[/del] Francine again. So Betty still has at least one friend in the neighborhood. I’ve been wondering how much of a pariah she’s become. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/62 "2010-09-13T20:10:56Z")
BTW, what exactly did Joan say she could do if she had wanted to handle the situation herself? I got the gist of it, but am fuzzy on the details. ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/63 "2010-09-13T20:15:15Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > BTW, what exactly did Joan say she could do if she had wanted to handle the situation herself? I got the gist of it, but am fuzzy on the details. Something like ‘one dinner with Mr. So-and-so from Sugarberry hams.’ I’m not really clear on how that would make Joey go away either–he was a freelancer, so…? Was he the one that Peggy thought up the ham fight with? That would make sense–tell the Sugarberry Ham people about the fight, and he’s out the door like Duck’s dog. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/64 "2010-09-13T20:15:59Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Henry asked Don if he wanted him to just put it in storage and deduct the cost from the _rent_. Yeah, I caught that after the fact but it’s still pretty ballsy of Henry and Don was still pretty wishy-washy. Come to think of it Peggy, despite her moment of glory, was kind of lame as well. “It’s only a job…” I wonder if Vincent Kartheiser was bitter about having to come into work that week 😃 ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/65 "2010-09-13T20:19:52Z")
> [@LawMonkey](#): > > At one of the [open discussions](http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2010/09/13/mad-men-a-conversation-season-4-episode-8/) I’ve been following this season (and to be honest, one of the more disappointing/less insightful ones), someone mentioned something about “the symbolism of the vending machine.” Aside from serving as a bit of a MacGuffin-like plot driver, and illustrating that SDCP is still counting every penny, I can’t see much in the way of symbolism. Anyone want to help me out? It struck me as an omen of the beginning of the end for the three martini lunch. Now, of course the secretaries can’t get away with those long lunches out of the office, but it does remind me of the policies of a lot of modern business, essentially “eat your shit and get back to work, cog”. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/66 "2010-09-13T20:24:22Z")
> [@LawMonkey](#): > > > [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > > > BTW, what exactly did Joan say she could do if she had wanted to handle the situation herself? I got the gist of it, but am fuzzy on the details. > > Something like ‘one dinner with Mr. So-and-so from Sugarberry hams.’ I’m not really clear on how that would make Joey go away either–he was a freelancer, so…? Was he the one that Peggy thought up the ham fight with? That would make sense–tell the Sugarberry Ham people about the fight, and he’s out the door like Duck’s dog. Yeah, that’s what she said she would do. Manipulate the situation so Joey is fired the same way Sal was tossed out. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/67 "2010-09-13T20:26:21Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > …I wonder if Vincent Kartheiser was bitter about having to come into work that week 😃 You know I’ve wondered how the actors’ salaries are handled. Does the main cast (the ones in the opening credits) still get payed for episodes they aren’t in? Do they get payed the same amount for making a cameo appearence as they do when they’re a major character? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/68 "2010-09-13T20:33:23Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > > [@Jophiel](#): > > > > …I wonder if Vincent Kartheiser was bitter about having to come into work that week 😃 > > You know I’ve wondered how the actors’ salaries are handled. Does the main cast (the ones in the opening credits) still get payed for episodes they aren’t in? Do they get payed the same amount for making a cameo appearence as they do when they’re a major character? I could easily be wrong, but as I understand the rules, persons listed in the opening credits must be paid for each episode in which their names appear in said credits. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/69 "2010-09-13T20:43:25Z")
> [@rikc](#): > > To me, the episode felt like it was packing in way too much. It certainly wasn’t bad (and **LawMonkey** ’s right that anything average will be a little pale after last week’s episode), but Don’s overhaul of his life seems like so much, so fast. We haven’t even seen him sober enough to acknowledge his latest drunken disaster and he’s already at the pool and getting nervous around drinks and writing (pretty ham-fisted) memoirs? How much time has passed between episodes? I think Don Draper, and Dick Whitman, are not the sort of guys who hem and haw over a decision. I can totally see him waking up the next DAY after Peggy chiding him and saying “ok self we’re gonna swim every day and we’re going to give up the drink.” Seeing him do it a few days or weeks later is no surprise. > [@alphaboi867](#): > > > [@Jophiel](#): > > > > …I wonder if Vincent Kartheiser was bitter about having to come into work that week 😃 > > You know I’ve wondered how the actors’ salaries are handled. Does the main cast (the ones in the opening credits) still get payed for episodes they aren’t in? Do they get payed the same amount for making a cameo appearence as they do when they’re a major character? Actor’s salaries are negotiated before the series starts, before it’s even written. That’s why they’re salaried and not hourly workers. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/70 "2010-09-13T20:58:48Z")
If an actor is famous enough, his or her agent negotiates all this stuff in advance. Otherwise, they are paid according to the guild scale. ---
**Author:** ![kath94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/67e7ee/32.png) [@kath94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kath94)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/71 "2010-09-13T21:05:53Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Henry asked Don if he wanted him to just put it in storage and deduct the cost from the _rent_. So the Francises have at least started paying rent since episode 4.01. \*\*It was nice to see [del]Cutthroat Bitch[/del] [del]Lura Grant[/del] Francine again. \*\* So Betty still has at least one friend in the neighborhood. I’ve been wondering how much of a pariah she’s become. :eek: I didn’t realize it was the same actress until this very moment. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/72 "2010-09-13T21:28:24Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > > Joan’s claim that Peggy’s actions made her look like “just another secretary” are silly, because Joan has exposed herself as being just that but not claiming power she has a genuine right to. > > What power does Joan have the right to claim except whatever power she has always exercised? She’s right. Having Peggy act “for” her reveals that Joan is powerless in the new world. Whereas, under the old system, Joan could work the levers to not only get her way but let people know that it was dangerous to cross her. > > As far as whether it was “right” for her to snap at Peggy … what do you expect? Joan’s seeing her star decline. It is in her nature to express her displeasure. What she says is still true. Peggy will experience both the upside and the downside as fallout. Yes, she gets to wield more authority. But she will also be perceived as a humourless bitch. That kind of thing still happens 45 years later. > > And no, Joan wasn’t calling her a humourless bitch on her own behalf. She had the same view of the cartoon that Peggy had. I think you nailed it. Joan had already tried the old intimidation tricks, and failed. She claimed that the problem was already dealt with, but it clearly was not. And, her backup plan if the problem persisted was to schmooze the client over drinks and get the obnoxious jerk pulled from the account. But that’s the way things worked in the old power structure. The times have changed. Joan is becoming an anachronism, while Peggy is the true modern woman. ---
**Author:** ![FallenAngel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@FallenAngel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FallenAngel)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/73 "2010-09-13T22:15:40Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > > [@Sampiro](#): > > > > -Was Don looking at Peggy lustfully during that one drinking scene? > > I thought so at first but then I figured he was just eyeballing her enjoying her sweet, sweet liquor. Yeah, he was going to abstain but then just as we realized he was looking at the booze and not Peggy one of the guys said something to the effect of, “And pass this one to Don.” ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/74 "2010-09-13T22:20:45Z")
I just saw it now. It wasn’t a terrible episode but I didn’t like the “Dear Diary” element. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/75 "2010-09-13T22:35:22Z")
The whole Joey thing was interesting in that it’s the first time Joan has ever been called out for dressing provocatively. He essentially told he she dressed like a whore, and honestly she kinda, sorta does. Her physical presence held no appeal for him and almost seemed to repel him per his “my mother was a Joan” comment. He’s an incredible jackass, but it was the first time anyone, that I can recall, was not responsive to her manipulation on some level. I didn’t mind the diary dialogue. I don’t think it was overused, and you got to hear a certain inner voice in it you really can’t get in person to person spoken dialog. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/76 "2010-09-13T22:36:55Z")
I don’t really think of prostitutes being as completely covered by clothing as Joan always is. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/77 "2010-09-13T22:41:38Z")
The Harry Crane “you’re so handsome” comments to Joey in trying to play starmaker were a little weird. Inflated ego or not I can see how he thought Crane was coming on to him. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/78 "2010-09-13T22:44:23Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > I don’t really think of prostitutes being as completely covered by clothing as Joan always is. 'Whore" was probably the wrong word. Joan dresses so skintight, even from a 2010 perspective it’s a bit over the top provocative leaning to trampy. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/79 "2010-09-13T22:58:02Z")
Harry’s not gay or anything, he’s just gone native during his trips to Los Angeles and fails to realize that New York isn’t like that. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/80 "2010-09-13T23:01:15Z")
> [@astro](#): > > > [@acsenray](#): > > > > I don’t really think of prostitutes being as completely covered by clothing as Joan always is. > > 'Whore" was probably the wrong word. Joan dresses so skintight, even from a 2010 perspective it’s a bit over the top provocative leaning to trampy. Yep, in an earlier season she chewed out a secretary for her decolletage. So she covers up, but she’s wrapped tight enough the curves can’t be missed. That secretary, I believe, went on to be Sterling’s wife. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550.md?page=5)