# Mad-Men: 4.08 "The Summer Man" (open spoiler) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 13, 2010, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550 "2010-09-13T01:08:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/122 "2010-09-16T16:22:25Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > > > Is Trudy the only happily married woman on the show? > > Roger’s wife, perhaps. I thought we’ve seen this year that Jane isn’t happy. The Christmas party episode had her somewhere between uncomfortable and miserable. Roger’s drinking has to be an issue. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/123 "2010-09-16T22:09:50Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Joan has been jealous of Peggy ever since Peggy ascended out of the secretarial pool. I am inclined to think that she bleives Peggy slept her way there, although maybe it is just the opposite. The elevator scene had very little to do with Joan’s perceived weakness to the office and had everything to do with Joan’s lack of power compared to Peggy. She is simply jealous. I don’t think Joan really belleves that – she knows too much about everything that goes on at the office. And the fact that Peggy\* didn’t\* may actually be a problem! As someone else implied (and which is probably too obvious to even mention), I felt the wind and sun fable worked best in relation to these two. Joan’s sweet-talking versus Peggy’s willingness to be perceived as a prude or a bitch. [quote=“lisacurl, post:42, topic:553550”] > [@Sampiro](#): > > Joan feels her time slipping away. She’s in her mid-thirties at a time when the focus of the world is shifting to youth. Time was, those boorish boys would have been too awed by her magnificent presence to behave like that… remember the first season of the show? The difference between the first season’s newbies and these hipsters is pretty startling. It’s not just Joan’s age, it’s _the_ age. The new batch of boys has traded being generally respectful to women (but thinking them inferior) to, well, being all-around jerks as the women make progress. Hits pretty close to home – ‘You want to compete with me for a job? Fine! But I get to call you a bitch and stop opening the door for you!’ ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/124 "2010-09-16T22:40:22Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Is Trudy the only happily married woman on the show? Whether she is is debatable. She and Pete have had some major arguments and he’s been unfaithful (though she probably doesn’t know it) and resentful of her family’s wealth (particularly upon learning his own family has _none_). She’s happy over her pregnancy at least, but it’s not a marriage I’d expect to celebrate a silver anniversary with a romantic second honeymoon. It’s kind of an interesting thing about this show. It will drop in on the Campbells in one episode and they’re fighting and seem on the verge of separating, then the next time you see them they’re dancing the Charleston like two lovestruck kids at Roger’s blackface party. You see Joan when she would probably gladly cut her husband’s throat in one episode and next time you see them she seems to genuinely love him (first the time when he sewed her cut and then this time) and is genuinely terrified he’ll be killed in Vietnam. Even Don and Peggy roller coastered, one of the most surprising times being when she was at her father’s and he was sleeping on the floor and she woke him up to get her freak on in the middle of the night- total shock to him and the audience. (I think that was when Gene was conceived and the last time they had sex.) ---
**Author:** ![rexnervous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@rexnervous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rexnervous)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/125 "2010-09-16T23:10:23Z")
[quote=“Sampiro, post:124, topic:553550”] > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > … Even Don and **Peggy** roller coastered, one of the most surprising times being when she was at her father’s and he was sleeping on the floor and she woke him up to get her freak on in the middle of the night- total shock to him and the audience. (I think that was when Gene was conceived and the last time they had sex.) … Um, Betty not Peggy. Unless I completely missed something… ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/126 "2010-09-16T23:31:48Z")
Betty’s happily married. Haven’t seen enough of Jane to know. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/127 "2010-09-16T23:46:22Z")
> [@rexnervous](#): > > > [@Sampiro](#): > > > > Um, Betty not Peggy. Unless I completely missed something… > > Sorry, used the wrong name. > > [QUOTE=Dave Hartwick] > Betty’s happily married. Her husband on the other hand is less so. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2010, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/128 "2010-09-17T00:41:38Z")
> [@](#): > > The difference between the first season’s newbies and these hipsters is pretty startling. It’s not just Joan’s age, it’s _the_ age. The new batch of boys has traded being generally respectful to women (but thinking them inferior) to, well, being all-around jerks as the women make progress. I think you’re misremembering. Pete and the stooges were absolute shits with the secretaries in Season 1. Remember Pete ogling Peggy and then telling her to show off her legs? > [@Sampiro](#): > > Even Don and Peggy roller coastered, one of the most surprising times being when she was at her father’s and he was sleeping on the floor and she woke him up to get her freak on in the middle of the night- total shock to him and the audience. (I think that was when Gene was conceived and the last time they had sex.) No, it wasn’t the last time. They had sex in Italy, and I suspect that between Gene’s birth and the opening of Don’s drawer there were some other instances of intimacy. ---
**Author:** ![jordanr2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/838e76/32.png) [@jordanr2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jordanr2)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2010, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/129 "2010-09-17T00:55:31Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > Betty’s happily married. I think the bloom is definitely off that rose. She was drawn to Henry IMO because he represented everything lacking in Don - stability, maturity, perhaps a form of ambition where she wouldn’t be doing all the drudgework behind the scenes - but now that they’re together, have we ever not seen her in a foul mood? Even when they’re alone, it’s one piece of unpleasant business after another - that argument in the car, her little grimace of disgust when Henry came in from mowing the lawn and wiped his face with his sweaty t-shirt. Granted, her emotional trauma from the marriage or lingering attachment to Don might have something to do with all this, but I don’t see much happiness in that marriage. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2010, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/130 "2010-09-17T03:26:55Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > I think you’re misremembering. Pete and the stooges were absolute shits with the secretaries in Season 1. Remember Pete ogling Peggy and then telling her to show off her legs? Great moment in the pilot: > [@](#): > > **DON** : Campbell, we’re both men here, so I’ll be direct. > > **PETE:** Christ, are you already sleeping with her? > > **DON:** Advertising is a very small world. And when you do something like malign the reputation of some girl from the steno pool on her first day, you make it even smaller. Keep it up and even if you do get my job, you’ll never run this place. You’ll die in that corner office: a mid-level account executive with a little bit of hair, who women go home with out of pity. > > And you know why? Because no one will like you. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2010, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/131 "2010-09-17T03:28:52Z")
I think Betty thought that Don was the reason she was so unhappy. And of course, Betty is the reason Betty is so unhappy. Now I think she’s beginning to resent Henry for not fixing her life completely. I doubt it will ever occur to her that it’s not somebody else’s responsibility to _make_ her happy and pleased with her life. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2010, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/132 "2010-09-17T04:32:02Z")
Has it ever been confirmed that Don & Betty “had to” get married? From what I’ve been able to figure out about the timeline Betty graduated from college, spent a summer in Italy as fashion designers “muse”, met Don, & married him all in the same year (1953) and Sally was born shortly thereafter. ---
**Author:** ![Leiko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Leiko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leiko)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2010, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/133 "2010-09-17T05:54:56Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Is Trudy the only happily married woman on the show? Maybe Harry’s wife Jennifer? (Admittedly I couldn’t even tell you what she looks like, and had to check with IMDB as to whether or not she’s actually appeared on the show or just been mentioned.) ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2010, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/134 "2010-09-17T13:06:04Z")
Really great episode. I enjoy it when a show steps out of it’s familiar groove and tries something new and it works. They even dropped having a closing credits song. Nice touch. New Don, new show style. Notes on wives and girlfriends: Harry confessed to his wife about his one nighter with Hildy. Things were tense for a while. But she got pregnant, etc. Might be happier now, but it’s relative. Note that Jane was a “good time girl” before she was a secretary. Bethany is a friend of Jane. I have always assumed that Bethany is also a “self employed” woman who is looking to follow Jane’s example into respectibility. Don must certainly know this is and is keeping his contact with her limited for this reason. The scene in the cab reflects Bethany’s background. Trudy is one of those kinds of people who can act superficially happy while being amazingly miserable on the inside. (Which is also a lot like “Annie” on _Community_.) She knows that Pete is not faithful. The best example was the episode with the _au pair_. When Pete tells her at the end that he doesn’t want her to go away by herself again, she understands why. The “Congressman Lindsay” the pol is talking with Henry about must be [John Lindsay](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lindsay). Lindsay won the NYC mayoral race later in 1965. Lindsay did run for PotUS in 1972, but as a Democrat. (My favorite Lindsay memory, when he was doing interviews for _GMA_: The guest mentioned being in the DAR, and Lindsay asked her if her ancestor fought for the North or the South.) ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2010, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/135 "2010-09-17T13:26:13Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > > > Is Trudy the only happily married woman on the show? > > Whether she is is debatable. She and Pete have had some major arguments and he’s been unfaithful (though she probably doesn’t know it) and resentful of her family’s wealth (particularly upon learning his own family has _none_). Maybe I’m misremembering but did Pete not confess that he’d been up to no good with the neighbour’s au pair? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2010, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/136 "2010-09-17T14:46:22Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Note that Jane was a “good time girl” before she was a secretary. Are you saying she was a call girl? Where did you get that? I thought she was just straight out of college. > [@](#): > > Bethany is a friend of Jane. I have always assumed that Bethany is also a “self employed” woman who is looking to follow Jane’s example into respectibility. Don must certainly know this is and is keeping his contact with her limited for this reason. The scene in the cab reflects Bethany’s background. Without some evidence from the show, I’m not buying any of this. > [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Maybe I’m misremembering but did Pete not confess that he’d been up to no good with the neighbour’s au pair? No, as Ftg said, all he said was that he didn’t want to be left alone. He didn’t confess anything specific, but one imagines that Trudy has a general enough idea of what that was about and probably doesn’t want to know anything more specific. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/137 "2010-09-17T15:09:47Z")
On “happy marriages” – Frankly, I don’t know anyone who has a perfect marriage, although infidelity is rather rare among the people close to me (so far as I know, anyway). But almost every couple has _some_ difficulties. I think in the setting of the show – affluent waspish 1960s New York – in which alcohol abuse and infidelity are so common and which face the turmoil of equal rights (changing roles of women), civil rights (changing race relationships), the counterculture, and Vietnam, it’s pretty realistic for most if not all of the marriages to be rocky. On the other hand, I do think that, so far, Henry and Betty’s marriage can be fairly labeled “happy.” Their disagreements as shown thus far are not out of the ordinary for generally successful relationships. Oh, and I’m still missing Paul Kinsey. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/138 "2010-09-17T17:09:53Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > > [@Sampiro](#): > > > > Whether she is is debatable. She and Pete have had some major arguments and he’s been unfaithful (though she probably doesn’t know it) and resentful of her family’s wealth (particularly upon learning his own family has _none_). > > Maybe I’m misremembering but did Pete not confess that he’d been up to no good with the neighbour’s au pair? Not is so many words, but he said something along the lines of you shouldn’t take anymore trips by yourself, I don’t like who I am when you’re gone. She took the meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/139 "2010-09-17T20:41:53Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Note that Jane was a “good time girl” before she was a secretary. Bethany is a friend of Jane. I have always assumed that Bethany is also a “self employed” woman who is looking to follow Jane’s example into respectibility. Don must certainly know this is and is keeping his contact with her limited for this reason. The scene in the cab reflects Bethany’s background. Bethany’s background is such that Betty _immediately_ recognized her – by name – after seeing her with Don in the restaurant. If she was a steno pool girl like Jane used to be, Betty wouldn’t have recognized her. And she probably wouldn’t be living at the Barbizon. I think we’re meant to understand that Bethany moves in the same social circles that Betty does – which are _not_ the same social circles that a Peggy or Joan move in. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2010, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/140 "2010-09-17T21:46:36Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > …I think we’re meant to understand that Bethany moves in the same social circles that Betty does – which are _not_ the same social circles that a Peggy or Joan move in. That’s what I thought. Bethany clearly the daughter of an upper-class family. One wealthy enough to send her to college and support her for years while she works for peanuts trying to have a career in theatre/opera. Bethany’s also very clearly looking for a husband, she’s not interested in an affair or being Don’s mistress. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2010, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550/141 "2010-09-17T22:24:17Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > > [@Lightray](#): > > > > …I think we’re meant to understand that Bethany moves in the same social circles that Betty does – which are _not_ the same social circles that a Peggy or Joan move in. > > That’s what I thought. Bethany clearly the daughter of an upper-class family. One wealthy enough to send her to college and support her for years while she works for peanuts trying to have a career in theatre/opera. Bethany’s also very clearly looking for a husband, she’s not interested in an affair or being Don’s mistress. Even so, the whole blow job in the cab thing was kind of a surprise to me. Don is kind of old to be all that much of a catch, and I’m not really getting why she is all that desperate given her age, background and level of attractiveness. If she was plainer with more limited prospects it might make more sense, but she’s very attractive. A debutante class girl chasing a near 40 year old man so hard is kind of weird even for the 60’s. As a side note how “wealthy” is Don in the context of the 60’s . IIRC i think he got around 250K for the UK company partnership buyout, but he really is not living all that large. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-08-the-summer-man-open-spoiler/553550.md?page=8)