# Mad-Men: 4.10 "Hands & Knees" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 27, 2010, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-10-hands-knees-open-spoilers/555166 "2010-09-27T01:17:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-10-hands-knees-open-spoilers/555166/41 "2010-09-27T13:36:43Z")
I’m still shuddering over poor Lane and his unspeakable monster of a father. Anyone who doesn’t ‘get it’ should look into the tell-all book written by Gary Crosby about his father, dear old Bing Crosby. Evil. Vile. I missed a bit of last night’s show and was wondering if anyone could briefly tell me what was going on with Roger and Lucky Strike? That scene in a restaurant near the end where they were arguing - What happened there? Is LS pulling out? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-10-hands-knees-open-spoilers/555166/42 "2010-09-27T13:40:18Z")
Yes, they are. The corporate board is consolidating their ad business (with BBDO as I remember) and Lucky Strike is still around 70% of SCDP’s billings. It will kill the agency. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-10-hands-knees-open-spoilers/555166/43 "2010-09-27T13:51:59Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Another thing. When the heck did Don and Pete ever have a talk about the specifics of what his identity switch reasons were. IIRC Pete knew he had changed his name and that he was Dick Whitman originally, but that was about it. Don just blurts out “it’s desertion” and Pete acts like he knows exactly what happened. Pete doesn’t need to know all the details, but he caught on almost immediately that Don was a deserter. His government contacts gave him enough information about Draper and Whitman for him to figure that out on his own. Intact, in Season 1 when he went running to Cooper, one of the things he said to himwas that Don was “probably” a deserter. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-10-hands-knees-open-spoilers/555166/44 "2010-09-27T14:05:15Z")
Really liked this ep. Good plot development, well-directed, well-acted. I also don’t like the actress who plays Faye. There’s something about her looks that I can’t put my finger on. She sort of looks like a female Grinch, but with better skin and a much nicer ass. Don’s panic attack was very well done. ---
**Author:** ![SaharaTea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SaharaTea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaharaTea)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-10-hands-knees-open-spoilers/555166/45 "2010-09-27T14:05:23Z")
Does anyone else get a feeling that maybe Joan didn’t have the abortion? The scene between her and the young girl’s mother in the waiting room, in addition to what Joan said to Roger about how they avoided a “tragedy,” was a little ambiguous. Perhaps Joan will have the baby and try to pass it off as her husband’s. ---
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-10-hands-knees-open-spoilers/555166/46 "2010-09-27T14:11:58Z")
I’m not so sure that knowledge would kill the agency- when it came to light with Pete, he and Don stormed into Bert’s office and Pete dropped the bomb, and Cooper’s reaction was pretty much “yeah, OK. So what.” Am I misremembering? Also, how many more times this season will we see someone (Don, in particular) puking? How long has Lane been seeing the Playboy bunny waitress? I forget her name. When he went back the next day they exchanged “I love yous”. As torqued off as Pete must have been to let a $4M account go, and fall on the sword for Don, no doubt he’s banking that one and will use it to his advantage at some point. _That_’s going to be a good episode. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-10-hands-knees-open-spoilers/555166/47 "2010-09-27T14:15:41Z")
But if the news about Don Draper did come to light, Dick Whitman would most likely go to prison. So if nothing else, _that_ would kill the agency. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-10-hands-knees-open-spoilers/555166/48 "2010-09-27T14:33:14Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > I’m still shuddering over poor Lane and his unspeakable monster of a father. Anyone who doesn’t ‘get it’ should look into the tell-all book written by Gary Crosby about his father, dear old Bing Crosby. Evil. Vile. I think “unspeakable monster” is a bit strong. Lane was acting immaturely, so his father knocked him down. It was certainly inappropriate for a number of reasons, no least of which that Lane is too old to be treated like that, but “unspeakable monster” is a bit of an overreaction. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-10-hands-knees-open-spoilers/555166/49 "2010-09-27T14:41:38Z")
Pete & Betty were the most sympathetic and likeable of the regulars in this episode. That means we’re all going to die, aren’t we? ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-10-hands-knees-open-spoilers/555166/50 "2010-09-27T14:44:20Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > > [@salinqmind](#): > > > > I’m still shuddering over poor Lane and his unspeakable monster of a father. Anyone who doesn’t ‘get it’ should look into the tell-all book written by Gary Crosby about his father, dear old Bing Crosby. Evil. Vile. > > I think “unspeakable monster” is a bit strong. Lane was acting immaturely, so his father knocked him down. It was certainly inappropriate for a number of reasons, no least of which that Lane is too old to be treated like that, but “unspeakable monster” is a bit of an overreaction. His father is a sadist, but at the same time Lane was behaving like an absolute idiot deliberately waving his girlfriend in front of his father and behaving like a giddy schoolgirl with his crush. It was weird because I normally think of Lane as the adult and he really was kind of childlike in this episode. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-10-hands-knees-open-spoilers/555166/51 "2010-09-27T14:44:42Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > I have to admit, I spent most of the time more concerned about whether Sally was going to the concert. I don’t think I would have been able to handle the terrible disappointment of Don not getting the tickets… > > Turns out it’s the only good thing that happens to anybody. I can’t quite agree. Pete got to see Trudy in her baby doll pajamas. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-10-hands-knees-open-spoilers/555166/52 "2010-09-27T15:08:16Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > But if the news about Don Draper did come to light, Dick Whitman would most likely go to prison. So if nothing else, _that_ would kill the agency. Don’s remiss in not chatting with a lawyer to find out exactly what charges are involved and what he can do to get out from under them. Twelve years after the fact (Well, I guess the fake identity is ongoing, bit the desertion is not), he may be in a lot less trouble than he thinks. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-10-hands-knees-open-spoilers/555166/53 "2010-09-27T15:08:26Z")
> [@SaharaTea](#): > > Does anyone else get a feeling that maybe Joan didn’t have the abortion? The scene between her and the young girl’s mother in the waiting room, in addition to what Joan said to Roger about how they avoided a “tragedy,” was a little ambiguous. Perhaps Joan will have the baby and try to pass it off as her husband’s. That’s what I think. She said he’d been gone 7 weeks, and she was “really late”, so the time shouldn’t be that big of a deal to fib about (unless the baby is born with a head of grey hair [in which case I hope it’s a boy]). ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-10-hands-knees-open-spoilers/555166/54 "2010-09-27T15:11:24Z")
> [@astro](#): > > His father is a sadist, but at the same time Lane was behaving like an absolute idiot deliberately waving his girlfriend in front of his father and behaving like a giddy schoolgirl with his crush. It was weird because I normally think of Lane as the adult and he really was kind of childlike in this episode. Yeah. He had to know how his father would react. It’s disappointing that Lane caved. I wonder if he met his “chocolate bunny” for dinner, or if he stood her up. I haven’t thought of Lane as “dashing”, but I suppose his manners and his accent make him stand out from the crowd. Roger should have told the board that Lucky Strike was done – get everyone busy finding new accounts instead of trying to save the company by himself. And I also wonder if Joan went through with the abortion. I think she did. She’s gotta be worried about Greg, and won’t want to raise a child alone. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-10-hands-knees-open-spoilers/555166/55 "2010-09-27T15:13:41Z")
> [@singular1](#): > > But Pete did say Don was flagged. Pete told Don that according to his friend (Russ?) at the Dept of Defense, Draper was not flagged and if they killed the account then it would end there. I wonder what Don would have done if he had filled out the security request himself. Filled it out as Dick Whitman? Changed enough stuff to make himself pass as Draper? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-10-hands-knees-open-spoilers/555166/56 "2010-09-27T15:30:33Z")
> [@SaharaTea](#): > > Does anyone else get a feeling that maybe Joan didn’t have the abortion? She basically told Roger she had it. Why would she lie at that point when she’s not going to be able to hide it? > [@corkboard](#): > > I’m not so sure that knowledge would kill the agency- when it came to light with Pete, he and Don stormed into Bert’s office and Pete dropped the bomb, and Cooper’s reaction was pretty much “yeah, OK. So what.” > > Am I misremembering? Yeah, notice that Cooper didn’t tell the government, the newspapers, or their clients. A prosecution and its attendant publicity would kill the agency. > [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I think “unspeakable monster” is a bit strong. Lane was acting immaturely, so his father knocked him down. It was certainly inappropriate for a number of reasons, no least of which that Lane is too old to be treated like that, but “unspeakable monster” is a bit of an overreaction. “Unspeakable monster” is hyperbole but “certainly inappropriate” goes too far in the other direction. An adult man who hits someone for any reason (other than self defense), regardless of whether his behaviour might be immature or idiotic is somewhere on the scale between “asshole” and “Hitler.” Lane’s behaviour was bizarre, however. Who takes his father to the freaking Playboy Club? > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I can’t quite agree. Pete got to see Trudy in her baby doll pajamas. 😃 Those had to be the most unflattering pajamas I’ve ever seen. She looked like a Hostess Sno Ball with a human head. > [@Jophiel](#): > > > [@singular1](#): > > > > But Pete did say Don was flagged. > > Pete told Don that according to his friend (Russ?) at the Dept of Defense, Draper was not flagged and if they killed the account then it would end there. Now I can’t remember whether he said “flagged” or “not flagged.” When I watched it, I thought he said “You’ve been flagged, but if we withdraw, they’ll drop it.” > [@](#): > > I wonder what Don would have done if he had filled out the security request himself. Filled it out as Dick Whitman? Changed enough stuff to make himself pass as Draper? My guess is that first he would avoid filling it out altogether and remind Cooper why he couldn’t. If he did end up filling it out, he would at least give himself a plausible birth date, which I think was one of the red flags he was worried about. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-10-hands-knees-open-spoilers/555166/57 "2010-09-27T15:35:20Z")
That is absolutely the\* last \*time I take an Ambien at the beginning of Mad Men. I know I was awake for all of it, but I don’t remember a thing after Don started talking to Pete outside his office. Crap! ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-10-hands-knees-open-spoilers/555166/58 "2010-09-27T15:43:28Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > > [@astro](#): > > > > His father is a sadist, but at the same time Lane was behaving like an absolute idiot deliberately waving his girlfriend in front of his father and behaving like a giddy schoolgirl with his crush. It was weird because I normally think of Lane as the adult and he really was kind of childlike in this episode. > > Yeah. He had to know how his father would react. It’s disappointing that Lane caved. I wonder if he met his “chocolate bunny” for dinner, or if he stood her up. > > I haven’t thought of Lane as “dashing”, but I suppose his manners and his accent make him stand out from the crowd. Alternatively, she might simply have been flattering an older, well-to-do guy. Lane wouldn’t wish to think she was only interested in him for his money. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-10-hands-knees-open-spoilers/555166/59 "2010-09-27T15:49:28Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > > I can’t quite agree. Pete got to see Trudy in her baby doll pajamas. 😃 > > Those had to be the most unflattering pajamas I’ve ever seen. She looked like a Hostess Sno Ball with a human head. As always, one’s mileage may vary. I’ve never been one of those who thought Trudy was worthy of Praxiteles, but at the sight of her thus attired, I sat up and thought, “Yeah, I’d make her _so_ pregnant.” I promise I’m not that crude in real life. ---
**Author:** ![jellyblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e480ec/32.png) [@jellyblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jellyblue)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-10-hands-knees-open-spoilers/555166/60 "2010-09-27T15:50:15Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > > [@astro](#): > > > > His father is a sadist, but at the same time Lane was behaving like an absolute idiot deliberately waving his girlfriend in front of his father and behaving like a giddy schoolgirl with his crush. It was weird because I normally think of Lane as the adult and he really was kind of childlike in this episode. > > [snip] > > And I also wonder if Joan went through with the abortion. I think she did. She’s gotta be worried about Greg, and won’t want to raise a child alone. Then again, she did just see Miss Blankenship drop dead at her desk with no one but a vague niece somewhere…it might not be her preference, but if she really wants a child, this might be her best shot. And if anyone could manage, it would be Joan. I don’t think Roger would have much to say about it. She’d just tell him “I changed my mind” and that would be that. Lots of pigeons coming back to roost in this episode, that’s for sure! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-10-hands-knees-open-spoilers/555166.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-10-hands-knees-open-spoilers/555166.md?page=4)