# Mad-Men: 4.13 "Tomorrowland", SEASON FINALE, (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 17, 2010, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495 "2010-10-17T23:43:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/221 "2010-10-22T19:39:39Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > …The important thing is to find a way to show Peggy at Woodstock, of course. She’d be 30, but it’s still belivable that she’d go. Maybe she get’s dragged along by her Countercultural friends. My great aunt went (much to my grandfather’s horror); she was _55_ at the time! ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/222 "2010-10-22T19:52:05Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > She’d be 30 Facts are for women and Irishmen. Don’t bother me with such things again. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/223 "2010-10-23T00:07:26Z")
I would be _very_ disappointed to lose the actress who plays Sally, so I hope we don’t see any huge jumps in time. In keeping with the hard-to-predict nature of the show, maybe there won’t be _any_ jump between seasons. I also can’t find anything wrong or objectionable about Jessica Pare’s interview. She looks gorgeous and sounds fun. And she’s _right_ about her character being a new type of woman. We saw that Joan’s ambitions never really extended beyond Queen of the Secretaries, and when they did they were crushed shortly afterward. Peggy has the career (which she kind of fell into; if things had gone differently she’d still be someone’s secretary), but has no idea how to manage a life outside of work. Peggy notwithstanding, Megan still works in a male-dominated field in a time when women are lucky if they aren’t being straight-up sexually propositioned and harassed in the office. I don’t fault her any of her choices. ---
**Author:** ![lindsaybluth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90db22/32.png) [@lindsaybluth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsaybluth)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/224 "2010-10-23T01:05:22Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Paris? :smack: I mean Disneyland. I had a brainfart, somehow relating the French to Paris. ---
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/225 "2010-10-23T02:07:34Z")
> [@shy\_guy](#): > > . And she’s _right_ about her character being a new type of woman. We saw that Joan’s ambitions never really extended beyond Queen of the Secretaries, and when they did they were crushed shortly afterward. Peggy has the career (which she kind of fell into; if things had gone differently she’d still be someone’s secretary), but has no idea how to manage a life outside of work. Peggy notwithstanding, Megan still works in a male-dominated field in a time when women are lucky if they aren’t being straight-up sexually propositioned and harassed in the office. I don’t fault her any of her choices. How is she any different than Jane? Other than mentioning that she would be interested in “what Don and Peggy do” ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/226 "2010-10-23T20:26:47Z")
> [@Gestalt](#): > > How is she any different than Jane? Other than mentioning that she would be interested in “what Don and Peggy do” Jane is certainly silly in a way that Megan isn’t. I’d honestly have to go back and rewatch season 3 to refresh my memory of Jane, but as I recall she was always pretty insubstantial and flighty. She was also bad at her job (she was fired, in fact). Megan has shown herself to be pretty mature and perceptive for somebody her age. She’s good with Don’s kids and at least claims to have some career ambition. Of course the situations are at least superficially similar. Joan points out that there isn’t anything novel or cute about what Don did. Megan _might_ turn out to be as useless as Jane, but what (admittedly little) we’ve seen of her leads me to believe she’s different. ---
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/227 "2010-10-23T20:44:56Z")
I disagree. I think we’ve seen the same qualities in Jane that we’ve seen in Meghan–Jane put down the boys lusting after her, Meghan put down Joyce lusting after her, Jane boldly walked into Cooper’s office, Meghan boldly walked into Don’s office and slept with him . . . Meghan has done sooo many silly/flighty things. Walking into Don’s office claiming an interest in copywriting, and then sleeping with him thirty minutes later. Not thinking that maybe the security forms should be given special attention. Showering Don with affection and praise for no reason. Sleeping with him when she knew he had a gf. They both accepted marriage proposals kind of out of the blue, but at least Jane had been seeing Roger for a while. I really actually question Megan’s intelligence to accept Don’s words of love and commitment after spending two days with him. While he had a gf Jane also showered Roger (and Don) with attention/affection (she bought Don those shirts). Like Meghan, she was a pretty competent secretary as well. I mean, wow, Jane wrote a poem for Roger . . . she is probably really deep and intelligent too! I agree that later we see her being even dumber (giving Margaret marriage advice, spacing out during Margaret’s wedding to catch up on the JFK shooting), but at this point in her and Roger’s courtship, I think she actually outshone Megan in perceived intelligence and interesting-ness. She marched into Cooper’s office to check out that painting, after all, which shows more initiative and ballsiness and “spark” than Megan has ever showed. . ---
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/228 "2010-10-23T20:48:44Z")
> [@shy\_guy](#): > > Jane is certainly silly in a way that Megan isn’t. I’d honestly have to go back and rewatch season 3 to refresh my memory of Jane, but as I recall she was always pretty insubstantial and flighty. She was also bad at her job (she was fired, in fact). > > Megan has shown herself to be pretty mature and perceptive for somebody her age. She’s good with Don’s kids and at least claims to have some career ambition. Jane was NOT a bad secretary. She brought Don shirts to change up his rotation, no? That’s more thoughtfulness than any other secretary (except maybe Allison) has shown. She was fired because Don was pissed that Mona was blaming him for Roger leaving her for Jane, and decided to take it out on Jane. And I’m sorry, but my idea of “perceptive” does not involve agreeing to marry someone you’ve never dated, never spent any substantial time outside of work with, slept with three times, and who has a history of insecurity regarding his identity and the federal government as well as relationship infidelity. Yes, I get it, he’s hot, and purportedly rich (although that fortune might be dwindling with the $150,000 payout and the divorce). ---
**Author:** ![Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fried_Dough_Ho)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/229 "2010-11-05T14:47:31Z")
Don Draper’s “[What](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9DCafQqHJA&feature=player_embedded)?” ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/230 "2010-11-05T15:40:03Z")
He gets more emotion in that one word… ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/231 "2010-11-05T15:55:04Z")
> [@Gestalt](#): > > Jane was NOT a bad secretary. She brought Don shirts to change up his rotation, no? That’s more thoughtfulness than any other secretary (except maybe Allison) has shown. She was fired because Don was pissed that Mona was blaming him for Roger leaving her for Jane, and decided to take it out on Jane. I didn’t see the shirt purchase as Jane being thoughtful. She was trying to manipulate Don. And Don was vexed with the Mona incident because it showed that Roger was mixing [del]work[/del] the office and fucking, which Don, at that point, refused to do, rightfully knowing it to be a bad idea. > [@](#): > > And I’m sorry, but my idea of “perceptive” does not involve agreeing to marry someone you’ve never dated, never spent any substantial time outside of work with, slept with three times, and who has a history of insecurity regarding his identity and the federal government as well as relationship infidelity. Yes, I get it, he’s hot, and purportedly rich (although that fortune might be dwindling with the $150,000 payout and the divorce). Quoted for truth alone. Well, that and so I could decline to use the abbreviation and be snotty about it. ---
**Author:** ![freep5637](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cdc98d/32.png) [@freep5637](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freep5637)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/232 "2011-09-07T03:04:11Z")
\*\*pepperlandgirl The thing that I loved about this episode is that we have seen these storylines played out before, but not quite like this. Don was disgusted by Roger leaving his wife for Jane, but now he’s all starry-eyed, all “But I’m in love tra-la-la” \*\* Don didn’t leave his wife for his secretary though, IIRC they’ve been divorced for 2+ years at this point. Roger on the other hand literally just dropped a bomb and walked away with some new eye candy. Though I have noticed the parallels between Don and Roger, just pointing out that though the outcome is similar the things leading up are different. ---
**Author:** ![freep5637](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cdc98d/32.png) [@freep5637](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freep5637)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/233 "2011-09-07T03:51:27Z")
> [@Gestalt](#): > > You know, it’s kind of interesting how Peggy went from, in season one, being psychotic enough to be completely in denial about a pregnancy, up to and including labor, to slightly quirky but otherwise normal, seasons 2-3, to completely with it and the best adjusted and most self-aware romantically, emotionally, and maybe professionally of the cast in season 4. > > Considering season 1 Peggy (in addition to the pregnancy thing) was just sooo awkward and strange . . . is this even realistic? It’s like a total personality makeover. Totally realistic. i’m NOTHING like I was when I was 20 (I’m 27 now). You learn a lot and have way more experience in 5 or 6 years. 25-27 IMHO is when you finally figure out to some extent who you are and what you want, it’s a painful transitional growing up process. And who knows, people deal with crisis very differently… ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/234 "2011-09-07T03:53:03Z")
Let me guess: you want to be a zombie when you grow up? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/235 "2011-11-25T14:57:26Z")
> [@SuperNelson](#): > > Something tells me that whatever we do end up seeing about Greg’s tour in Vietnam will have some symmetry to Dick Whitman’s tour in Korea. I’m certainly not suggesting that the same thing will happen to Greg, but perhaps he’ll witness someone else confronted with the same choice? And mention it to Joan? Remind me of the timing… is it eventually going to be obvious to Greg that the baby isn’t his? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/236 "2011-11-25T15:09:00Z")
No, they’ve already shown telephone conversations between Joan and Greg that make it clear that he thinks the baby is his. While he was stationed stateside, she made visits to see him. He’s a doctor, so I’m sure he would have been able to tell that the timing was too far off long before the actual birth. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/237 "2011-11-25T18:10:27Z")
Mad Men reruns are supposed to start up again on Sunday morning, 6 a.m. on AMC. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495.md?page=11)