# Mad-Men: 4.13 "Tomorrowland", SEASON FINALE, (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 17, 2010, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495 "2010-10-17T23:43:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/41 "2010-10-18T15:01:11Z")
> [@AutumnLeaves](#): > > Faye was growing on me a _bit_, but barely. As I can remember them: I liked Midge initially, opening Don’s world view a little; I hated hated hated the school teacher, who was boring and so self-righteous; can’t stand Megan, bland and clearly attempting to use Don as a career-boost; thought the Bobbie affair made an interesting story, but didn’t care much about it; Bethany was also dull and really brought the stupid to every scene she was in; Alison was sweet and charming though very naive and was just meant for us to see how far Don had fallen. And I loved forever and ever Rachel Menken, who I can only hope we’ll see again though it’s better for the story if she’s the lost love, I think. Don’s equal who got away. Ooh, I’d forgotten about Rachel! Good call; her I did like. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/42 "2010-10-18T15:04:29Z")
> [@davidw](#): > > The choice between Megan and Faye was really a choice between remaining under the Don Draper mask or embracing Dick Whitman. Unsurprisingly, he chose to run back to Don Draper. In his defense, it would be hard not to fall in love with the way Megan allowed it. Paraphrasing: I’ve done some things. That doesn’t matter. You’re always trying to be better, and I know who you are now. – That last bit is arguably one of the more romantic things a woman could say to Don Draper - even if she doesn’t understand the full import. I liked the episode. I came away happiest for the Draper kids. There’s hope for them yet. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/43 "2010-10-18T15:09:19Z")
> [@Chopper9760](#): > > I’ve always felt that way about Don’s love interests too. I like Don but I often feel that I shouldn’t, his personal life is a train wreck and he tends to be a philandering dickhole. Still, I like Don. > > There’s the rub, it would be awfully hard to forgive Don his many sins if he was paired with someone even half way likable. My liking of Don waxes and wanes. No, that’s not quite true. I enjoy watching the character in both his personal and private lives, and I like devious, poetic ad man Don, but on a personal level I generally detest him. I’m sure there are reasons Faye should not hire one of her father’s cronies to break every bone in his face, but I don’t find any of them convincing. Of course, MM doesn’t necessarily intend its characters to be likeable anyway. In an odd moment rated the characters on the show from most to least fuckwittish: Not fuckwittish at all: Peggy, Ken, Trudy, Carla Faye Mildly or occasionally fuckwittish: Harry, Bobby, Sally, Lane Frequently but sympathetically or amusingly fuckwittish: Pete, Joan, Bert Overwhelmingly fuckwittish but with occasional moments of non-fuckwittery: Roger, Don, Duck, Betty, Don. I had to list Don twice because of this episode. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/44 "2010-10-18T15:14:21Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Not fuckwittish at all: Peggy, Ken, Trudy, Carla Faye TRUDY not fuckwittish?!? Good God man! It’s obvious she’d leave Pete in a heartbeat if he wasn’t bringing in enough money to keep her in the style she wants. As it is, she can’t seem to get it through her head that he’s young and just starting out and doesn’t have money falling out of his ass. Anyone who yells “I forbid you to XXX” at their spouse is fuckwittish IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/45 "2010-10-18T15:21:33Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > TRUDY not fuckwittish?!? Good God man! It’s obvious she’d leave Pete in a heartbeat if he wasn’t bringing in enough money to keep her in the style she wants. As it is, she can’t seem to get it through her head that he’s young and just starting out and doesn’t have money falling out of his ass. > > Anyone who yells “I forbid you to XXX” at their spouse is fuckwittish IMO. I assume you refer to the scene in which Trudy mistakenly thought the call from the bank about loan information was in reference to a house, rather than the firm’s troubles. What I took from that was that Pete had not been candid with her about the straights SCDP was in. I don’t hold it against her. And, frankly, though her anger was a hair unreasonable, she was exactly right in that Pete should not mortgage their future in the manner he was contemplating. But on review, you’re right. I’ll move her to _mildly fuckwittish_. She cannot go any higher because of the babydoll pajamas. ETA: Shouldn’t that be “Good _me_, man?” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/46 "2010-10-18T15:26:15Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > In his defense, it would be hard not to fall in love with the way Megan allowed it. > > Paraphrasing: > > I’ve done some things. > > That doesn’t matter. You’re always trying to be better, and I know who you are now. > > – That last bit is arguably one of the more romantic things a woman could say to Don Draper - even if she doesn’t understand the full import. > > I liked the episode. I came away happiest for the Draper kids. There’s hope for them yet. I liked it, too. Cable dramas tend to have the really big “season finale” stuff in episode 12. That’s what we got last week. Episode 13 usually tends to be a bit quieter and focus on wrapping up storylines or dealing with interpersonal relationships. Matt Weiner was just sticking to the formula (that if I understand correctly started with The Sopranos). The thing that I loved about this episode is that we have seen these storylines played out before, but not quite like this. Don was disgusted by Roger leaving his wife for Jane, but now he’s all starry-eyed, all “But I’m in love tra-la-la” which may not be the most “original” plot point, but that’s not what Weiner is interested in. He’s not trying to craft a story nobody has ever told in the history of the world. He’s trying to craft Don and Peg’s stories. That means they’re going to confront the same issue from different angles, changing their opinion as they grow and change. When Don saw Roger pull this shit, he couldn’t believe what an asshole he was. He doesn’t know he’s doing the same thing. None of us know we’re leading cliched lives, we’re just doing the best that we can. I think the season couldn’t have ended any other way. It was obvious that Megan was going to mean something to him. Don has a point. Think about how much shit had to happen to get the two of them where they were. The major storylines in the series came together in such a way to send Megan and Don to CA together. Sally’s plotline with Glen culminating in firing Carla. Don’s earlier tryst, leading to Ms. Blankenship. Etc. Also, the series made a point of highlighting Megan in the same episode where everything fell apart with his other secretary. Too bad Faye apparently didn’t read Sex and the Single Girl. Don’t pick up with a recently divorced man. He’ll use you for support then dump you for the chick who doesn’t remind him of the worst time of his life. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/47 "2010-10-18T15:29:31Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > He’s trying to craft Don and Peg’s stories. **Pep** , do you see the show as being essentially about Don and the people around him; Don, Peggy, and the people around them; or the agency and the people around it? ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/48 "2010-10-18T15:32:09Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > Paraphrasing: > > I’ve done some things. > > That doesn’t matter. You’re always trying to be better, and I know who you are now. > > – That last bit is arguably one of the more romantic things a woman could say to Don Draper - even if she doesn’t understand the full import. But she doesn’t! She doesn’t know who he is now, or at all. He’s just the charming guy she works for. That line was empty of meaning, and he let himself fall for it. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/49 "2010-10-18T15:33:11Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > **Pep** , do you see the show as being essentially about Don and the people around him; Don, Peggy, and the people around them; or the agency and the people around it? Essentially Don and Peggy and the people around them. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/50 "2010-10-18T15:35:54Z")
> [@gallows\_fodder](#): > > But she doesn’t! She doesn’t know who he is now, or at all. He’s just the charming guy she works for. That line was empty of meaning, and he let himself fall for it. Moreover, **Faye** is the one who actually _does_ know who Don is. I would have been oddly pleased if she’d dropped a dime on him to the military authorities. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/51 "2010-10-18T15:46:34Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > The thing that I loved about this episode is that we have seen these storylines played out before, but not quite like this. Don was disgusted by Roger leaving his wife for Jane, but now he’s all starry-eyed, all “But I’m in love tra-la-la” which may not be the most “original” plot point, but that’s not what Weiner is interested in. He’s not trying to craft a story nobody has ever told in the history of the world. He’s trying to craft Don and Peg’s stories. That means they’re going to confront the same issue from different angles, changing their opinion as they grow and change. When Don saw Roger pull this shit, he couldn’t believe what an asshole he was. He doesn’t know he’s doing the same thing. None of us know we’re leading cliched lives, we’re just doing the best that we can. I don’t see that what Don did is equivalent to Roger, as Roger divorced his wife so that he could marry the secretary, while Betty divorced Don, partly so that she could marry Henry. Then, later, after an appropriate time, Don met and married someone else. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/52 "2010-10-18T15:51:16Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I don’t see that what Don did is equivalent to Roger, as Roger divorced his wife so that he could marry the secretary, while Betty divorced Don, partly so that she could marry Henry. Then, later, after an appropriate time, Don met and married someone else. It’s not exactly the same morally or emotionally, but like Joan implied, there’s nothing at all cute or original about falling in love with your 25 year-old secretary, and then walking around with big cartoon hearts in your eyes, saying “I fell in love” to justify your decisions, and generally behaving like nobody has ever been this happy. Plus, Don wasn’t exactly “free” to pursue Megan. He did have an emotional involvement with Faye, which isn’t even close to being married, I know, but she was still clearly hurt by this. ---
**Author:** ![SuperNelson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@SuperNelson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuperNelson)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/53 "2010-10-18T15:55:24Z")
> [@Dignan](#): > > (Snip) > Joan’s pregnancy will be interesting. People have been suggesting that Greg will die in Vietnam, but what about the possibility that he’s maimed? > (/Snip) Something tells me that whatever we do end up seeing about Greg’s tour in Vietnam will have some symmetry to Dick Whitman’s tour in Korea. I’m certainly not suggesting that the same thing will happen to Greg, but perhaps he’ll witness someone else confronted with the same choice? And mention it to Joan? ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/54 "2010-10-18T15:55:49Z")
> [@Dignan](#): > > **Dewey Finn** , I kind of thought Betty was going to say something about giving it another try. After fighting with Harry, maybe she realized that the grass wasn’t necessarily any greener. Yeah. She said “It isn’t perfect”. Don thought she was talking about the new house but she was talking about her marriage. And then Don replied, something like “You’ll just get a new one”. 🙂 I was half-expecting something to happen to the kids, left alone in the motel room all night. What was the deal with Cosgrove not wanting his future father-in-law to be in the golf foursome? He’s saying he’s not going to pimp his family to help the business? Good for Ken. **Chefguy** , you’d like _Terriers_. It’s on FX. There’ve been four or five episodes, but they’re available on-line (legally). ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/55 "2010-10-18T15:58:17Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I don’t see that what Don did is equivalent to Roger, as Roger divorced his wife so that he could marry the secretary, while Betty divorced Don, partly so that she could marry Henry. Then, later, after an appropriate time, Don met and married someone else. You left out the bit about Don having a girlfriend who has supported him both emotionally and professionally to her own detriment, and that he was consciously and deliberately cheating on her in California. Faye was spot-on when she said Don should tell Megan he only likes the beginnings of things. She might have added that he likes being worshipped. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/56 "2010-10-18T16:18:34Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I assume you refer to the scene in which Trudy mistakenly thought the call from the bank about loan information was in reference to a house, rather than the firm’s troubles. What I took from that was that Pete had not been candid with her about the straights SCDP was in. I don’t hold it against her. > > And, frankly, though her anger was a hair unreasonable, she was exactly right in that Pete should not mortgage their future in the manner he was contemplating. > > But on review, you’re right. I’ll move her to _mildly fuckwittish_. She cannot go any higher because of the babydoll pajamas. I agree on it being reasonable for her to be concerned about money issues, but I also put her in the mildly fuckwittish category because anyone who tries to forbid their spouse anything is, by definition, fuckwittish. > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > ETA: Shouldn’t that be “Good _me_, man?” 🙂 I throw “Good God” around at times to taunt Dad. He’s still pissy about that whole “rise of monotheism” thing, especially the part where he isn’t the monotheos. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/57 "2010-10-18T16:25:19Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > You left out the bit about Don having a girlfriend who has supported him both emotionally and professionally to her own detriment, and that he was consciously and deliberately cheating on her in California. Were they supposed to be exclusive? Didn’t Fay allude to having a date, or another engagement, at least once, and recently? I’m remembering that Don suggested something and she had other plans. It was probably business related, but Don didn’t know that. Yeah, Don treated Faye shabbily, but he redeemed himself somewhat by immediately coming out with the engagement. That was surprising. I think there’s more to Megan than meets the eye. I don’t think she’s conniving or using Don to advance her career, but she’s more cosmopolitan (for lack of a better word) than what he’s used to. Or maybe I’m just impressed by people who speak more than one language. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/58 "2010-10-18T16:37:19Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Moreover, **Faye** is the one who actually _does_ know who Don is. > > I would have been oddly pleased if she’d dropped a dime on him to the military authorities. I think $ 50,000 is the going rate to keep quiet. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/59 "2010-10-18T16:37:38Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Not fuckwittish at all: Peggy, Ken, Trudy, Carla Faye… I like Peggy, but I think you may be forgetting that she gave up her illegitimate child in order to pursue a career. While we may analyze that choice all day, especially in light of how society operated at that time, it clearly means that Peggy isn’t an innocent, and that her actions don’t have the real potential to cause pain to others. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495/60 "2010-10-18T16:39:48Z")
I’m gobsmacked that “loved it” is running over 45% in the poll. I must’ve seen a different season finale than everyone else. > [@AuntiePam](#): > > What was the deal with Cosgrove not wanting his future father-in-law to be in the golf foursome? He’s saying he’s not going to pimp his family to help the business? Good for Ken. I think that also indicates how Ken is not as committed to saving SCDP as the others are. Added to his snarky dig about how he’s servicing 30% of the firm’s business, made me think he’s considering bolting with as many clients as he can take. He’s done it once already, coming to SCDP, after all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-4-13-tomorrowland-season-finale-open-spoilers/557495.md?page=4)