# Mad-Men: 5.01 "A Little Kiss" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 25, 2012, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793 "2012-03-25T22:20:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/181 "2012-03-30T19:46:53Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Not a version of Don in personality, but in his story. He’s a talented up-and-comer who is on top of his game, with a wife and child in suburbia, who nonetheless finds his life dissatisfying and empty of meaning. > > That’s _exactly_ Don’s story. And, presumably, Roger’s before him. Not Roger at all. Remember, his name was on the building because his father was a founder, not because of anything he did. Roger is the character who has grown the least. He was perfect in the days when you kept clients by supplying them with food, booze and hookers, but he is terrible at a start-up. I don’t think he arranged the office swap to keep Pete, but rather to keep himself. He knows that if it came down to a confrontation Pete is more valuable, and of one of them goes it will be him. That would be tricky with the ownership. It will be interesting to see how he reacts to the results of the prank. Pete has grown a lot. In the first season, he wanted a promotion solely from his name and social position. Now he appreciates that it comes from work, and is critical of the slackers he sees around him - even Don. ---
**Author:** ![Corcaigh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Corcaigh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corcaigh)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/182 "2012-03-30T20:51:31Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > It’s really an episodic show. You deserve to see it in order. I rent DVDs via a website that has a thing where they send you TV shows in the correct order 😃 I’m looking forward to seeing it from the beginning! > [@Acsenray](#): > > I keep forgetting it’s the same guy. Vincent Kartheiser really has become an impressive actor. I kept looking at him and saying “who _is_ that?!” I looked on Wikipedia to find out! > [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Glad you enjoyed it! The smoking was laid on thick early in the show–because people really did smoke all the time. But the actors smoke rather unpleasant herbal things & maybe they are letting them smoke a bit less. The drinking that everybody noticed was mostly in the office–drinking at a party isn’t that weird. (And, of course, they were smoking something else at the party, too!) Roger is the only one drinking all the time, now. Yeah I hear those herbal smokes are horrendous, I thought maybe they’d CGI some smoke in… I think a lot of people kept booze in their offices back in those days - or I just knew of a lot of alcoholics(!) > [@](#): > > The previous seasons are streaming on Netflix. Some will say you _must_ see all the old ones first, but I’d advise you to watch the new stuff & catch up with the rest as you can. Either after this season or during–if you’re smart! Netflix is available here now, but I have a ‘restricted’ download package for my broadband - people haven’t realised the Netflix eats your download allowance and gotten bills for over €100 from their ISPs! I’ll stick to renting the DVDs ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/183 "2012-03-30T21:09:35Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > I’m sure there were many “stations” along the Main Line. Just as it’s been mentioned that Pete & Trudy don’t live in Greenwich, yet; the conductor calls the Greenwhich stop but he keeps going to another station… > > Yes, I know the discussion is really one’s “station in life.” Are we at Downton Abbey? This is the USA–there is no nobility. There’s having more money or less money. More education or less education. But what classes are we really seeing on the show? > > Some of Pete’s ancestors were Dutch settlers–the closest thing to nobility in New York. But we saw that his mother is stupid & cruel and that his father spent the family’s capital. Pete was hired for his connections but knows that he has to make it on his own. I would just quibble with this part. Of course, it’s not Downton Abbey, but there was a class system in place at the beginning of the show, which is why Pete has such a sense of entitlement. He doesn’t get fired because of his name, and his mother’s maiden name, and that’s really what he was hired for in the first place. I think the overall narrative arc of the show is the death of the dominion of the WASP aristocracy, and the arrival of a completely different social order in American business. That and the tragic fall of the skinny tie. ---
**Author:** ![Katriona](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/katriona/32/113_2.png) [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/184 "2012-03-30T21:18:23Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Too serious–let’s talk about clothes! [http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/2012/03/mad-style-a-little-kiss-part-1.html](http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/2012/03/mad-style-a-little-kiss-part-1.html) I don’t see Part 2 up yet. ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/185 "2012-03-30T22:32:43Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Remember, Peggy is the one woman above 17 and below 50 who Don has not wanted to shtup, and I think it bothers her. I’m not sure that’s really true. Don’s early season conquests were all women who were in stark contrast to Betty - independent and self-assured. Midge, Rachael, Bobby, even the school teacher (Susanne?). The thing with Allison happened when he was at a low point. Before that he was never shown being interested in secretaries or “dipping his pen in the company ink”. Of course Megan knew about the Allison situation, which was what emboldened her to pursue him so aggressively. We’ll have to wait and see how that works out. If anything, we’ve come full circle. Season 5 Peggy is exactly the type of woman that season 1 Don would have pursued, while he’s now closer to season 1 Pete or Ken, viewing the secretarial pool as his personal harem (not quite, but you get my point). Rodger, meanwhile, hasn’t changed a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/186 "2012-03-30T23:08:08Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Remember, Peggy is the one woman above 17 and below 50 who Don has not wanted to shtup, and I think it bothers her. One word- Joan. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/187 "2012-03-30T23:35:39Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > One word- Joan. It’d be the ultimate fanservice, but it will happen. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/188 "2012-03-31T00:32:56Z")
It sort of bothered Joan - when Peggy came to her asking what to do about Betty and the kids arriving for a family portrait, and Don was off with Midge. Joan allowed that she had wondered why he’d never shown any interest in her, assuming that he was good-looking enough that he could find female company without having to bother women from work. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/189 "2012-03-31T02:51:39Z")
I didn’t think the episode was up to much. By the way does anyone know if the Jameson label was identical in the '60s to what it is now? The scene were Roger I think is pouring a drink, you see the (presumably product placed) bottle and it looks identical to one you’d buy now. It’s not a huge faux pas if they had a different one at the time, I’m just curious. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/190 "2012-03-31T03:08:19Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > …But Betty had been sent to the finest schools & had every chance, with her beauty, to make an excellent marriage. Well, she could have married a very rich guy instead of Don–but would she have been happy? I was always under the impression that Betty and Don “had to” get married. It certainly fits with the timeline. Betty graduates from Bryn Mawr in May/June of '53, Betty spends the summer in Italy as the “muse” of an Italian fashion designer, by fall she’s back in NYC modeling; meets Don, then along comes Sally at some point in '54. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/191 "2012-03-31T04:15:29Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I’m guessing that she is going to blab some time this season. That should be interesting. He is also going to stop being infatuated with her and see what he actually has. Accidentally or on purpose? Megan doesn’t seem to care, so she might not think anyone else would care either. Pete and Bert know about Dick Whitman, and nothing came of it. I don’t remember if Roger knows. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/192 "2012-03-31T07:13:07Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > One word- Joan. Roger’s property. Thinking about it, Don is often good in that respect. Of course there was the comic’s wife, but she chased him. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/193 "2012-03-31T07:14:47Z")
> [@kenetic](#): > > I’m not sure that’s really true. Don’s early season conquests were all women who were in stark contrast to Betty - independent and self-assured. Midge, Rachael, Bobby, even the school teacher (Susanne?). The thing with Allison happened when he was at a low point. Before that he was never shown being interested in secretaries or “dipping his pen in the company ink”. Of course Megan knew about the Allison situation, which was what emboldened her to pursue him so aggressively. We’ll have to wait and see how that works out. > > If anything, we’ve come full circle. Season 5 Peggy is exactly the type of woman that season 1 Don would have pursued, while he’s now closer to season 1 Pete or Ken, viewing the secretarial pool as his personal harem (not quite, but you get my point). > > Rodger, meanwhile, hasn’t changed a bit. There are tons of good reasons for Don to not be interested. He might still remember the pre-makeover Peggy. That doesn’t mean she likes it. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/194 "2012-03-31T07:16:39Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > Accidentally or on purpose? Megan doesn’t seem to care, so she might not think anyone else would care either. > > Pete and Bert know about Dick Whitman, and nothing came of it. I don’t remember if Roger knows. From not caring. In this show actions always have consequences. Betty left when she found out, but that was doomed anyway. Don is fairly famous in the biz - if the story made it to the press, it would be big. Might not be this season, but it is going to break some time. ---
**Author:** ![alexandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e68b1a/32.png) [@alexandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alexandra)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/195 "2012-03-31T10:27:28Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > No Betty. Maybe January Jones wasn’t ready for filming after having her kid. We really need to see what she’s up to. The “Next Episode” doesn’t show her directly but has Henry yelling at her (apparently). (No Betty/Sally stuff means no Glen stuff. I gotta get my Glen fix.) January Jones was lower down in the credits than she has been before, wasn’t she? I tried to defend Betty as long as possible; I find a lot of the readings of her to be sexist and unfair. But Matthew Weiner seems determined to turn her into an irredeemable, cold bitch (Not just because of this, but I agree that he exemplifies the need to ignore what writers say about their own work.) No, she hasn’t always been that way - recall her desire and adoration for Don in the first couple of seasons; and how she befriended Francine when her neighbours were vile about her. But unless they do something interesting with her this season and move her along a little, I’d _much_ rather watch Pete, Peggy, Lane or Joan. > [@](#): > > It’s the subtle stuff among the women (including Sally) that runs thru this episode. Peggy hates Megan (crush on Don?, Megan taking the easy path to copy writing?). Megan hates Joan (probably thinks Joan and Don have a thing), etc. I think Mad Men is a little more sophisticated than depicting women as jealous and hateful of other women. Peggy and Don have a deep bond, but there hasn’t been anything sexual between them since season 1 when Peggy was a secretary and probably thought that’s what she “should” do (Don rebuffed her, and she wasn’t particularly hurt IIRC). Peggy’s feelings towards Megan are likely mixed. She seemed sincerely apologetic in this episode; she probably feels sympathy to her as a female junior copywriter in a horrendously sexist world; yet as others have pointed out, Megan gets away with a lot more than Peggy or anyone else could because she’s married to Don. Thanks to **Katriona** for the link to Tom and Lorenzo’s style blog. Fascinating stuff that does reveal a lot about the characters. Incidentally I couldn’t take my eyes of Joan’s chest when she was in Lane’s office either. That dress… I reckon Lane is not as upper-class as you might think. Recall him saying fondly that no-one in the US asks “what school you went to” (and how the other British characters treated him). He means secondary school, not university. Perhaps he’s grammar-school educated and went on to Oxbridge. In any case, probably not rich and/or aristocratic. I think there will be an African-American character bigger than we’ve had before (Carla, Paul’s girlfriend, etc). The civil rights context was so strongly focused on in this episode. The Megan & Don sex scene was very S&M-y. I was watching it with my mother, and she said “I missed the beginning of this scene”. I didn’t rewind it, jeez. Megan’s “un, deux, trois, quatre” was very sexy, but the rest of that scene made me cringe. [QUOTE=alphaboi687] I love how they just became an EOE and Lane’s first words to the applicants were “We’re only hiring secretaries so gentlemen you’re free to leave” and nobody batted an eye. Even the undercover reporters they’re terrified off won’t think that worth mentioning. [/QUOTE] Yes, that was hilarious. Pete and Peggy looking at each other when she got stuck with Joan’s baby. So much going on in that scene… ---
**Author:** ![phxjcc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8491ac/32.png) [@phxjcc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phxjcc)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/196 "2012-03-31T22:59:01Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > I was always under the impression that Betty and Don “had to” get married. It certainly fits with the timeline. Betty graduates from Bryn Mawr in May/June of '53, Betty spends the summer in Italy as the “muse” of an Italian fashion designer, by fall she’s back in NYC modeling; meets Don, then along comes Sally at some point in '54. IIRC there was an intimation in Season 2 (1?, 3?) that Betty had hooked while she was a struggling model–or at least was a “party girl” in the Audrey Hepburn/Breakfast at Tiffany’s context. Does anyone else recall this? ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/197 "2012-03-31T23:27:38Z")
> [@phxjcc](#): > > IIRC there was an intimation in Season 2 (1?, 3?) that Betty had hooked while she was a struggling model–or at least was a “party girl” in the Audrey Hepburn/Breakfast at Tiffany’s context. > > Does anyone else recall this? In the episode where Don and Betty meet at a hotel (I think it was Valentine’s Day), they bumped into a girl whom Betty had roomed with when she was a struggling model in NYC. The girl was with “Curtis”, an older gentleman who awkwardly did not have a business card when asked. Don later informed Betty that her old roomie was a “party girl”. Betty later claimed that she had figured this out when discussing it with her neighbor. If Betty Hofstadt Draper once worked as a hooker, she is the greatest actress who ever lived. ---
**Author:** ![phxjcc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8491ac/32.png) [@phxjcc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phxjcc)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/198 "2012-04-01T03:38:30Z")
> [@F.U.Shakespeare](#): > > In the episode where Don and Betty meet at a hotel (I think it was Valentine’s Day), they bumped into a girl whom Betty had roomed with when she was a struggling model in NYC. The girl was with “Curtis”, an older gentleman who awkwardly did not have a business card when asked. Don later informed Betty that her old roomie was a “party girl”. Betty later claimed that she had figured this out when discussing it with her neighbor. > > If Betty Hofstadt Draper once worked as a hooker, she is the greatest actress who ever lived. Thanks..that was the episode. I did not remember the context of the party girl characterization. ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/199 "2012-04-01T11:15:37Z")
> [@Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](#): > > Where are you getting that the guy with the wallet was in the Mafia? Did I miss something in the conversation with Dolores? Yeah, why do people think he was mafia? I didn’t get that at all. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/200 "2012-04-01T11:23:45Z")
He’s a thuggish guy with a Noo Yawk accent and has a “kind of” wife on the side. With his manner, It was pretty obvious to me that we were supposed to at least wonder whether he was a mobster. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793.md?page=11)