# Mad-Men: 5.01 "A Little Kiss" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 25, 2012, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793 "2012-03-25T22:20:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/81 "2012-03-26T21:04:34Z")
My take was that Roger wanted to avoid the risk of losing to Pete if things went to the wall. He’s not entirely blind to his own weaknesses. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/82 "2012-03-26T21:25:07Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > I don’t see Pete as an early version of Don at all. He really does not like drinking, he is not a fan of office hijinks, he does not think of the workplace as a playground. Like I said, he isn’t a saint, by any stretch, he does treat the women in the office like crap, but I see him very different from Don. Not a version of Don in personality, but in his story. He’s a talented up-and-comer who is on top of his game, with a wife and child in suburbia, who nonetheless finds his life dissatisfying and empty of meaning. That’s _exactly_ Don’s story. And, presumably, Roger’s before him. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/83 "2012-03-26T21:26:32Z")
> [@Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](#): > > According to the inflation calculator, $1100 in 1966 dollars is equivalent to about $7300 today. Here is my cite: > [http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi](http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi) Yep, and $7,300 a month ($87,600 per year) is well within reason for a department head on Madison Ave. Heck, I know people in advertising in Chicago that make that much as a mid-level supervisor, let alone a department head. The department directors I know here make more in the $100-200k range. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/84 "2012-03-26T21:27:40Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I think the falling guy is metaphor, not foreshadowing. To your knowledge. There have been other posts discussing how it would be a great irony if in the final episode somebody did this. [QUOTE=Ascenray] Mr. Weiner, I presume? If not, you can’t say who it could or couldn’t be. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] I don’t have a good feel for what $1100 a month would translate to before taxes in 1966, but it can’t be more than $20,000. [/QUOTE] Though if you go by the price of metro-NYC rent/real estate, the $1100 would probably be a lot more. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/85 "2012-03-26T21:34:20Z")
I’m not sure if it’s my connection, but to me the [YouTube video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyy8roNU060)of Megan singing actually somehow looks like a '60s TV clip. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/86 "2012-03-26T21:34:29Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Not a version of Don in personality, but in his story. He’s a talented up-and-comer who is on top of his game, with a wife and child in suburbia, who nonetheless finds his life dissatisfying and empty of meaning. > > That’s _exactly_ Don’s story. And, presumably, Roger’s before him. it is not exactly Don’s story, Don’t story is like nobody else’s, raised poor with an abusive father, changed identities with a dead soldier, married a model, had kids screwed around on her and couldn’t stop his horndogging no matter what. Pete comes from a wealthy family, has far more propriety in his manner if not always his actions. Cheated early in his marriage, which after all was basically an arranged marriage, and didn’t even know if loved his wife. But they had a kid and has done nothing even resembling fooling around for a while. He seems to be in a far more content place than Don ever was. They are similar in that they are very ambitious when younger, and both good at their jobs. But Pete knows he cannot be like Don, because Don’s path to success is archaic and is not going to lead to success. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/87 "2012-03-26T21:42:03Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I’m not sure if it’s my connection, but to me the [YouTube video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyy8roNU060)of Megan singing actually somehow looks like a '60s TV clip. If anyone is curious, [this is the original](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vFOzG3GYqo) “Zou bisou, bisou” by Gillian Hills. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/88 "2012-03-26T21:42:08Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I’m not sure if it’s my connection, but to me the [YouTube video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyy8roNU060)of Megan singing actually somehow looks like a '60s TV clip. I didn’t notice it last night, but Harry Crane is wearing a feather boa. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/89 "2012-03-26T21:47:43Z")
I know most of her scenes last season had to do with bickering over their marital home, but was last night the first time that Henry and Betty’s new house was shown? Because Don’s right- that’s straight up Early Modern Addams Family. It was obvious that Henry was well to do, but even in the '60s a Second Empire mansion in the NYC exurbs would have to cost a bloody fortune. Is Henry supposed to be much richer than Don? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/90 "2012-03-26T21:58:28Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > To your knowledge. It’s illogical to modify a sentence that starts with “I think” by adding “to your knowledge.” If it had anything to do with knowledge, I wouldn’t have used the phrase “I think.” ---
**Author:** ![SuperNelson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@SuperNelson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuperNelson)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/91 "2012-03-26T22:52:42Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > Did you watch That 70’s Show? I believe Joan’s mother was a briefly-recurring character on there–Joanne, the woman Bob started dating after Midge left him. There’s no credit on IMDB for Joan’s mother; any chance that’s [Christine Estabrook](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0261452/), who played the realtor on last fall’s “American Horror Story?” ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/92 "2012-03-26T23:12:18Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > …And Sally is also very pretty, I wish she was a little older so we can see her run off to join a commune with those dirty hippies!.. Sally will be 15 in time for Woodstock; that’s old enough for a 17 yr old Glenn to spirit her off to the festival. Aging up the actors could be a problem. > [@Acsenray](#): > > I got the feeling that the song and dance and everything was unexpected and not something that Don has seen before. > [@Jophiel](#): > > It just had the SCDP logo and “An Equal Opportunity Employer”… I love how they just became an EOE and Lane’s first words to the applicants were “We’re only hiring secretaries so gentlemen you’re free to leave” and _nobody_ batted an eye. Even the undercover reporters they’re terrified off won’t think that worth mentioning. > [@Sampiro](#): > > Any idea why Lane is having money problems (re: his kid’s tuition, the request his wife not write checks)? The firm took a big hit but the partners personal fortunes seem safe; was he not as rich as the others? > > Does Burt have an office at SCDP? I was wondering because of his comment in Pete’s office- did he want an office or just a nicer one?.. Lane’s a junior partner (ableit a named one unlike Pete) so he only had to put in $50,000 (& Don certainly didn’t pay his share like he did Pete’s). Lane’s family clearly has money, but AFAIK his father’s still alive and he doesn’t seem like the type to give Lane a single farthing unless he absolutely had too. Also in England high social class ≠ rich. Regarding Cooper; no he does not have an office, he “works” out of his home when he’s not hanging around the office. Last season they even mentioned that he had Miss Blankenship assigned to him because high like to work without pants at home and this didn’t bother her. > [@peedin](#): > > Is Lane’s wife Rebecca a new wife? I thought his wife left him last season and returned to England… Lane went back and fixed his marriage at his father’s “suggestion”. I don’t think Lane actually used his father’s methods though. Lane just seems like to much of a wimp to pull it off and it’d probally backfire horribly if he tried. Intersting that Lane apparently has a gay brother; I wonder if that make’s Lane his father’s favourite son? 😉 > [@Acsenray](#): > > They are partners because they put their capital into the business. It’s not a question of “affording” them. If the business doesn’t profit, they don’t get a share of the profits either, but that doesn’t change their ownership status. True, and at least Cooper doesn’t actively interfear in the business. He content to just randomly show up at meetingns, offer the occasionaly bit of sage advice, and eat fruit in the lobby. > [@AuntiePam](#): > > I’m pretty sure Don didn’t reveal it last season. We didn’t see Don and Megan together that much and I think we were all surprised when Don proposed to her. All I remember was the trip to the theme park, and that Megan was really good with Sally… He took the kids to the house, but all they got from it was that some woman named Anna was a friend of their father’s and one of his nickname’s was Dick. > [@Sampiro](#): > > Shouldn’t be hard. Her husband may be a surgeon but he can’t do basic math (since the baby was conceived several weeks after he left and carried to full term), so critical thinking isn’t really his strong suit… Has Greg even seen the baby? If he’s thousands of miles away Joan could’ve just told him the baby was a few weeks premature. It’s not like he’d be able to check up on her easily and that’s not his specialty anyway. I still think he’ll find out; unless of course he dies first. > [@Sampiro](#): > > …Is Henry supposed to be much richer than Don? Oh, yes. Henry comes from old money. Betty even made a crack about him being used to servant_s_; as if he grew up in a household where the maid(s), cook, and nanny where all seperate people not rolled into one like Carla (or the Hofstand’s maid). Come to think of it we never saw the outside of Mother Francis’s house last season. She could’ve just died or moved to Florida and Henry just moved into his family home. I hope she’s not dead though; I so enjoyed he scenes last season. BTW did anyone else catch that apprently “Dick Whitman” is 6 month’s older than “Don Draper”? :dubious: This whole time we’ve all been thinking Don was pretending to be a few years older than he actually his, but he’s actually _younger_? ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/93 "2012-03-26T23:28:08Z")
One thing I’m surprised to learn is the relative difference (or rather, the lack of it) in the ages of Dick Whitman (aka Don Draper) and the real Don Draper. [This thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=630752http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb) discussed reasons why Whitman would have been born about six years later than Draper. But last night they revealed that the two are only six months apart. I wonder if that was an oversight? (ETA: What \*\*alphaboi \*\*said). > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > It’s now 1966 and I think that $40,000 offer was several years ago their time. Salaries zoomed in the 1960s in advertising. \*\*Don had half a million to buy in as a partner and my memory is that he had managed to save that much from his salary. \*\*He’s certainly making six figures now. When PPL bought SC at the end of season 2, Don cleared “around half a million dollars”, as Roger informed him when he returned from his three-week disppearance. IIUC, Draper used most or all of this money to chip in with the others and buy the firm back when PPL were going to sell SC again at the end of season 3. I doubt Draper saves much of his income. He’s always managed to land on his feet. The “disappearing cash” he kept in his home desk probably accounted for most of his savings. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/94 "2012-03-26T23:31:46Z")
Did they just say their birth dates were 6 months apart or their actual ages? I don’t recall. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/95 "2012-03-26T23:48:39Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > it is not exactly Don’s story, Don’t story is like nobody else’s, raised poor with an abusive father, changed identities with a dead soldier, married a model, had kids screwed around on her and couldn’t stop his horndogging no matter what. Getting too hung up on the superficial differences. Think of it this way: Pete and Don are each examples of the same archetype. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/96 "2012-03-26T23:49:01Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Did they just say their birth dates were 6 months apart or their actual ages? I don’t recall. Don said he turned 40 six months before the party. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/97 "2012-03-26T23:53:04Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Getting too hung up on the superficial differences. Think of it this way: Pete and Don are each examples of the same archetype. Saying the are the same archetype hardly means they are the same character. The differences are not superficial at all, they are the whole point. In fact I would say that you are looking at the superficial similarities, both married, moving up the career ladder, but their histories are different, their actions are different. So yes they are the same archetype, ambitious career path, “nuclear” family path, but that hardly makes them the same. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/98 "2012-03-27T00:35:23Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Saying the are the same archetype hardly means they are the same character. The differences are not superficial at all, they are the whole point. In fact I would say that you are looking at the superficial similarities, both married, moving up the career ladder, but their histories are different, their actions are different. So yes they are the same archetype, ambitious career path, “nuclear” family path, but that hardly makes them the same. Since those similarities are wholly under the control of the writers, _and_ the writers keep calling attention to those similarities, then what message do you think that the writers are trying convey by this? ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/99 "2012-03-27T00:48:00Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Since those similarities are wholly under the control of the writers, _and_ the writers keep calling attention to those similarities, then what message do you think that the writers are trying convey by this? I believe they are trying to contrast the two. You claim they are exactly the same, but they aren’t, Don and Pete have different modes of operating for many reasons, much of it having to do with their backgrounds, which are very different. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/100 "2012-03-27T00:57:47Z")
I do not believe they are “exactly the same”. I believe that, despite their superficial differences, they each represent the same type of person and that ultimately their stories will end up in the same place. I believe that if the writers were trying to contrast the two, they would have emphasized their contrasts. Instead, they have emphasized similarities such as the house Pete now lives in being so similar to Don’s old house, or Pete’s trainride being so similar to Don’s prior trainrides, or Pete’s irrationally outbursts at his subordinates being so similar to Don’s many such outbursts, or even Pete sitting alone in his office pensively staring off into the distance – which is a classic Don moment, too. Ultimately, time will tell which of us is correct. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793.md?page=6)