# Mad-Men: 5.01 "A Little Kiss" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 25, 2012, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793 "2012-03-25T22:20:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/161 "2012-03-29T15:14:03Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Even now, many American employers don’t accept a black woman in an office/professional position with a “natural” hair style. In the Washington area, I’ve rarely seen a black woman in a professional position who didn’t have chemically straightened hair or a wig. But is that because employers don’t want them or because they’re so rare? The only black woman I’ve seen (for years!) with natural hair was on a recent commercial. I don’t know what the ad was for. There were several black women in a salon, all of them had straightened hair or weaves. Then one stood up with a big smile and short natural hair. I think the ad had a “Be yourself” or “Be different” theme. There are a few reality shows featuring black women, and none of them wear a natural. I can’t remember the last time I saw natural hair on a movie/TV/music awards show. I think it’s simply not the style right now. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/162 "2012-03-29T15:24:14Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > There are a few reality shows featuring black women, and none of them wear a natural. I can’t remember the last time I saw natural hair on a movie/TV/music awards show. I think it’s simply not the style right now. Fashion and discrimination are not mutually exclusive. A black woman who chooses a natural hair style will find it hard to get a professional job in this town. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/163 "2012-03-29T15:43:16Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Fashion and discrimination are not mutually exclusive. A black woman who chooses a natural hair style will find it hard to get a professional job in this town. Why can’t that be because natural hair just isn’t the style? Employers might not hire a white woman with big 70’s hair or a man who parts his hair down the middle. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/164 "2012-03-29T17:21:28Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Betty is from the Main Line. > > We do \*not \*Zou Bisou Bisou on the Main Line. > > (Well, maybe in \*Overbrook \*. . . .) I thought that Betty was more upper middle class or maybe nouveau riche. Grandpa Gene certainly didn’t come off as Main Line, as far as I could tell. Actually, I’ve been reviewing the past seasons on Netflix, and that confrontation with Megan is a lot like several Don had with Betty, especially the Season 2 incident with the bikini. ---
**Author:** ![SuperNelson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@SuperNelson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuperNelson)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/165 "2012-03-29T18:42:27Z")
The New York Times ran a story yesterday about the opening scene’s portrayal of the protestors being water bombed from the Y&B office windows. Earlier in the week, they had called that scene “unfortunately ham handed” in their review of the episode. Turns out the scene was written almost verbatim from a front page story the New York Times ran in 1966. [An Opening Scene Straight from Page 1](http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/28/on-mad-men-an-opening-scene-straight-from-page-1/) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/166 "2012-03-29T19:03:28Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > I thought that Betty was more upper middle class or maybe nouveau riche. Grandpa Gene certainly didn’t come off as Main Line, as far as I could tell. On at least one occasion, Don called Betty a “Main Line brat,” and she didn’t contradict him. And I don’t think that was the only time that the term “Main Line” was used to describe Betty. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/167 "2012-03-29T19:18:14Z")
> [@SuperNelson](#): > > The New York Times ran a story yesterday about the opening scene’s portrayal of the protestors being water bombed from the Y&B office windows. Earlier in the week, they had called that scene “unfortunately ham handed” in their review of the episode. > > Turns out the scene was written almost verbatim from a front page story the New York Times ran in 1966. > [An Opening Scene Straight from Page 1](http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/28/on-mad-men-an-opening-scene-straight-from-page-1/) And the critics are unrepentant, which just makes them look even assier. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/168 "2012-03-29T19:55:22Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > On at least one occasion, Don called Betty a “Main Line brat,” and she didn’t contradict him. And I don’t think that was the only time that the term “Main Line” was used to describe Betty. I’m not sure that Don would know what is and isn’t Main Line. I don’t either, really, but I had the impression that it was someone who lived a little higher than Betty’s family did, more like Katherine Hepburn in _Philadelphia Story_. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/169 "2012-03-29T20:03:03Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > On at least one occasion, Don called Betty a “Main Line brat,” and she didn’t contradict him. And I don’t think that was the only time that the term “Main Line” was used to describe Betty. She also said she kissed a Jewish boy at a mixer in a synagogue in Lower Merion–I know exactly the one she means, it’s on Montgomery Avenue. ---
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/170 "2012-03-29T21:02:55Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > She also said she kissed a Jewish boy at a mixer in a synagogue in Lower Merion–I know exactly the one she means, it’s on Montgomery Avenue. Yeah, that’s the where one of my HS girlfriends went. She was LM, I was Radnor. It never would have worked out. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/171 "2012-03-30T03:34:33Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > She also said she kissed a Jewish boy at a mixer in a synagogue in Lower Merion–I know exactly the one she means, it’s on Montgomery Avenue. I don’t remember that; why would Betty have even been at a mixer in a synagogue in the first place? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/172 "2012-03-30T05:13:24Z")
I think it was conversing with Helen Bishop, or the other neighbor lady (Francine?) As for why, I presume it’s because Betty hadn’t learned her parents’ prejudices yet. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/173 "2012-03-30T12:18:54Z")
> [@F.U.Shakespeare](#): > > I think it was conversing with Helen Bishop, or the other neighbor lady (Francine?) > > As for why, I presume it’s because Betty hadn’t learned her parents’ prejudices yet. Actually, she was telling Don about it in bed. As for her parents’ prejudices, I don’t think she’s said anything else about it. I got the impression that she was looking to get kissed and thought it best to do it with a boy she would never see again. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/174 "2012-03-30T12:33:42Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > I’m not sure that Don would know what is and isn’t Main Line. I don’t either, really, but I had the impression that it was someone who lived a little higher than Betty’s family did, more like Katherine Hepburn in _Philadelphia Story_. The [Main Line](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Main_Line) was named after the railroad line used by commuters. Apparently it includes a fair number of communities. The most famous Main Liners lived in large estates–like the Lord family. (And C K Dexter Haven!) But I’d guess there were some largish homes that were less than palatial. Rather like Houston’s [River Oaks](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Oaks,_Houston)–which includes estates hardly glimpsed from the streets plus rather stodgy Colonials. But they are in River Oaks! (Of course, the truly prestigious Houston neighborhoods were Shadyside & Broad Acres–near Rice University. Says a Houstonian raised far, far from any of these enclaves.) As we learned when Betty’s father’s will was read, there was no great family fortune. But Betty had been sent to the finest schools & had every chance, with her beauty, to make an excellent marriage. Well, she could have married a very rich guy instead of Don–but would she have been happy? ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/175 "2012-03-30T14:47:20Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > The [Main Line](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Main_Line) was named after the railroad line used by commuters. Apparently it includes a fair number of communities. The most famous Main Liners lived in large estates–like the Lord family. (And C K Dexter Haven!) But I’d guess there were some largish homes that were less than palatial. You’re right, the Main Line consist of 20-some towns ranging from blue-collar to Old Money. But the area as a whole is known for being proudly dowdy, low-key and non-glitzy. The Lords of the Hollywood _Philadelphia Story_ would have been looked upon as gaudy, vulgar and really “NOKD.” (There’s no snob like a Main Line snob, take it from me!) ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/176 "2012-03-30T17:01:11Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > The [Main Line](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Main_Line) was named after the railroad line used by commuters. Apparently it includes a fair number of communities. The most famous Main Liners lived in large estates–like the Lord family. (And C K Dexter Haven!) But I’d guess there were some largish homes that were less than palatial. Okay, so it’s a geographical reference. So how does that inform this: > [@Acsenray](#): > > On at least one occasion, Don called Betty a “Main Line brat,” and she didn’t contradict him. And I don’t think that was the only time that the term “Main Line” was used to describe Betty. I would interpret that to mean that Betty was used to living at a higher station than she was with Don in Ossining. But she doesn’t appear to have more money, judging from the house she grew up in (and the fact that from the middle of season 1 on, Don was bringing in 35,000/year in 1960 money), and her father doesn’t exhibit any sign of being better socially than (she believes) Don is. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/177 "2012-03-30T17:15:39Z")
I think it’s stated in more than one way that both Betty and Gene think that they come from a better class of people than Don, even without knowing his true background. That’s one reason why Gene was surprised and impressed by Don’s ability to afford a Cadillac. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/178 "2012-03-30T17:42:48Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > …I would interpret that to mean that Betty was used to living at a higher station than she was with Don in Ossining. But she doesn’t appear to have more money, judging from the house she grew up in (and the fact that from the middle of season 1 on, Don was bringing in 35,000/year in 1960 money), and her father doesn’t exhibit any sign of being better socially than (she believes) Don is. I’m sure there were many “stations” along the Main Line. Just as it’s been mentioned that Pete & Trudy don’t live in Greenwich, yet; the conductor calls the Greenwhich stop but he keeps going to another station… Yes, I know the discussion is really one’s “station in life.” Are we at Downton Abbey? This is the USA–there is no nobility. There’s having more money or less money. More education or less education. But what classes are we really seeing on the show? Some of Pete’s ancestors were Dutch settlers–the closest thing to nobility in New York. But we saw that his mother is stupid & cruel and that his father spent the family’s capital. Pete was hired for his connections but knows that he has to make it on his own. Trudy’s father was a self-made man who wanted all the best for his little girl; her mother saw that she got the education & polish to marry “up.” Betty’s father came from a respectable family but appears to have made his own fortune; we learned that her mother had worked before having children. Betty was set up to snare a wealthy husband–perhaps moving up a “station.” But she rebelled & chose Don (partly because he was hot, of course). And Don was the illegitimate son of a dead whore & a dead, abusive drunk–brought up by a hateful stepmother. I don’t blame him a bit for wanting to escape that dump. If only he’d realized he could have been demobilized in another city & gone to school on the GI bill, never returning. If he survived Korea, that is. But he saw a chance to leave early & took it, not thinking things through… Bert is definitely upper class. Roger’s family was probably doing OK before his dad got into advertising. But what has Roger accomplished lately? When did “social climbing” become “upward mobility”? (How many of those African-American job applicants were brought up to “strive”?) Too serious–let’s talk about clothes! ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/179 "2012-03-30T19:32:19Z")
> [@shy\_guy](#): > > That’s interesting, too. I think what Megan wanted to happen, and genuinely thought _would_ happen, was for Don to have had a great time, to admit that Megan was right about the party, and to have been really turned on by her performance. What _actually_ happened is that Don acted exactly like he said he would, and on top of that, this was the one time in the episode he _wasn’t_ sexually interested in her. _And_ now everyone else is mocking her and she’s embarrassed. > > It was sort of an interesting contrast to Betty, too. Never in a million years would Betty have done what Megan did, because she knows better. > > Considering Don and Megan’s weird dom/sub role-play thing at the end, I’m wondering if Don ever really got over his phase of wanting an escort to slap him around. Compare that to his little role-play with Betty in Italy. I can see trouble coming here. Megan may know how to turn Don on, but she doesn’t understand the impact of Don hiding his background for most of his life, which is why he hates being the center of attention. And she doesn’t understand why this is so much of a turnoff it even overwhelmed Don’s innate horniness - has he not been interested ever before in the series? I’m guessing that she is going to blab some time this season. That should be interesting. He is also going to stop being infatuated with her and see what he actually has. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793/180 "2012-03-30T19:40:57Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I don’t actually think that Peggy hates Megan. I think she likes her. But she doesn’t like the “married into the job aspect” and it puts her in some uncomfortable positions. Not yet. She will, unless Megan grows some brains. Remember, Peggy is the one woman above 17 and below 50 who Don has not wanted to shtup, and I think it bothers her. She has worked really hard at pleasing him and is challenging him to accept her as almost an equal. Peggy had to be brilliant to become a copywriter, not marry the boss. She’s actually grown quite a bit. Remember that at the end of the last season she cracks a joke at Don about not doing those shenanigans (his ad) here, and he just smiled. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-01-a-little-kiss-open-spoilers/616793.md?page=10)