# Mad-Men: 5.02 "Tea Leaves" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 1, 2012, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529 "2012-04-01T23:56:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/61 "2012-04-04T12:46:03Z")
I don’t think Betty lied; I think the results she reported are legit. I agree that the last scene represented her giving in, but not, I think to death. I think that while the possibility of cancer scared her, it also let her escape responsibility for letting herself go. Now that she knows that isn’t the case (although I, too, was under the impression that a thyroid tumor needn’t be malignant to cause something like that), she has to deal with the fact that she’s been doing this to herself. She’s unsatisfied with her situation, but basically doesn’t see any way of not turning into Henry’s mother. The cancer scare could have snapped her out of it, but it seems only to have increased her ennui. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/62 "2012-04-04T12:50:35Z")
Presumably if the news were bad, she would be asked to come in to find out in person under the guise of “more tests.” But I can see giving the all clear over the phone. How would it be if the doc’s office called and said, “Please come in for your test results,” and you said, “Tell me now,” and they said, “Sorry we can’t discuss on the phone.” And then when you got there, they said, “Joke’s on you- you’re fine!” ---
**Author:** ![peedin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peedin/32/14095_2.png) [@peedin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peedin)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/63 "2012-04-04T13:01:16Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > It went past me. I caught that her name was the “same” as Don’s but my brain took it too literally and I assumed her name was Donna or something. In some parts of the country, “Don” and “Dawn” are pronounced the same (not where I’m from though). There is a rather lengthy discussion on this in the TWoP episode thread, and a month or so ago, there was a Jeopardy! question that said “Don” and “Dawn” were pronounced the same. I’m guessing it’s a regional thing. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/64 "2012-04-04T13:07:14Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Like “Its always darkest before the dawn over there” :eek: > [@Lightray](#): > > That was actually more clever: “It’s always darkest before the Dawn over there.” Actually, thinking about it, I think the line is “It’s always darkest before the _Don_ over there.” Because you get to the darkest (Dawn) _before_ you get to Don. ---
**Author:** ![Meltdown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Meltdown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meltdown)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/65 "2012-04-04T13:22:39Z")
> [@peedin](#): > > In some parts of the country, “Don” and “Dawn” are pronounced the same (not where I’m from though). There is a rather lengthy discussion on this in the TWoP episode thread, and a month or so ago, there was a Jeopardy! question that said “Don” and “Dawn” were pronounced the same. I’m guessing it’s a regional thing. I suppose I could go look up that thread, but I’m too lazy (like Roger). How would you pronounce “Don” and “Dawn” differently? To me, they sound exactly the same, and both rhyme with “gone.” ---
**Author:** ![unwashed\_brain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a9adbd/32.png) [@unwashed\_brain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unwashed_brain)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/66 "2012-04-04T13:27:22Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Actually, thinking about it, I think the line is “It’s always darkest before the _Don_ over there.” Because you get to the darkest (Dawn) _before_ you get to Don. Hehe, clever. I think of it more as a pre-Chris Berman SportsCenter nickname: “It’s-always-darkest-before-the-Dawn over there.” Your version could apply to a dark-skinned person of any name. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/67 "2012-04-04T13:39:18Z")
> [@Meltdown](#): > > I suppose I could go look up that thread, but I’m too lazy (like Roger). How would you pronounce “Don” and “Dawn” differently? To me, they sound exactly the same, and both rhyme with “gone.” If you pronounce Don and Dawn the same (like I do), then your accent is missing a vowel that exists in some New York accents, in other words, you have the [cot-caught merger](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonological_history_of_English_low_back_vowels#Cot.E2.80.93caught_merger). It’s impossible to explain with casual phonetics, and if you don’t understand I.P.A., that makes it difficult. Besides the fact, in different cot-is-not-caught (CINC) accents, the actual realization of the sounds can be different. But anyway, the basic difference is usually noted in American English as /dɑn/ and /dɔn/. (In R.P., both vowels are rounded, /dɒn/ and /dɔn/) In very strong New York accents, “Dawn” might be realized more like /duən/ Here are some [audio samples](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vowel#Audio_samples) for the vowel notations. ---
**Author:** ![peedin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peedin/32/14095_2.png) [@peedin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peedin)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/68 "2012-04-04T14:15:05Z")
I pronounce Dawn to rhyme with gone, but pronounce Don Dahn. Like the word dot, but an N instead of a T. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/69 "2012-04-04T14:25:30Z")
> [@peedin](#): > > I pronounce Dawn to rhyme with gone, but pronounce Don Dahn. Like the word dot, but an N instead of a T. You must pronounce ‘gone’ different than me. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/70 "2012-04-04T14:27:49Z")
> [@peedin](#): > > I pronounce Dawn to rhyme with gone, but pronounce Don Dahn. Like the word dot, but an N instead of a T. > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > You must pronounce ‘gone’ different than me. See, this is why this kind of off-the-cuff phonetics is pointless. The “X rhymes with A” and “Y rhymes with B” _doesn’t work_ when you don’t know how the other person pronounces A and B. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/71 "2012-04-04T14:29:24Z")
> [@MaddyStrut](#): > > That’s interesting. I had a totally different take on the show ending with Sixteen Going on Seventeen. I was hit by the difference between the girls backstage at the Stones concert and the cheesy innocent kids singing the song. That’s how I read it- that song was teenagers in the eyes of adults at the time, while the Stones concert was (some of) what was actually going on in the life of a teen. > [@corkboard](#): > > I couldn’t help noticing that Dawn is pretty easy on the eyes. I wonder if… > > Nah, Don’s not that progressive. I don’t recall “progressive” ever being used to describe Strom Thurmond. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/72 "2012-04-04T14:35:44Z")
> [@corkboard](#): > > I couldn’t help noticing that Dawn is pretty easy on the eyes. I wonder if… > > Nah, Don’s not that progressive. I’m all for hot sex and all that, but after four seasons of Don sleeping around, I should think that that particular storyline is played out. I’ll be kind of bored if this season _again_ features Don’s infidelity as a major plot point. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/73 "2012-04-04T14:38:06Z")
I pronounce “Don” much more nasally than “Dawn”. In fact, when I say both, the corners of my mouth rise up saying “Don” (like a smile) whereas my mouth makes more of an “O” shape saying “Dawn”. Guess I need to move from Chicago to New York to get Roger’s jokes 😃 ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/74 "2012-04-04T14:43:44Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > You must pronounce ‘gone’ different than me. I love that word. It has such a woody quality about it. ---
**Author:** ![zeldarae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/f14d63/32.png) [@zeldarae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zeldarae)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/75 "2012-04-04T15:09:38Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Would a doctor’s office even give Betty the test results over the phone like that in the first place? :dubious: IIRC there’s been several threads regarding doctors who won’t reveal test results one way or the other except in person… Last year I had the right side of my thyroid removed because of a benign tumor with pre-cancerous cells. My doctor told me the results of the initial test over the phone and we even discussed my options at that time. Betty clearly has either an underactive thyroid or Hashimoto’s disease. Both make you fat, tumor or no tumor. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/76 "2012-04-04T15:55:10Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > See, this is why this kind of off-the-cuff phonetics is pointless. The “X rhymes with A” and “Y rhymes with B” _doesn’t work_ when you don’t know how the other person pronounces A and B. > [@Jophiel](#): > > I pronounce “Don” much more nasally than “Dawn”. In fact, when I say both, the corners of my mouth rise up saying “Don” (like a smile) whereas my mouth makes more of an “O” shape saying “Dawn”. > > Guess I need to move from Chicago to New York to get Roger’s jokes 😃 Yeah, but. But that means you missed the import of that excruciating five-minute\* scene in which Harry lamely makes jokes about the similarity of Don and Dawn’s names. How much do you want to bet that the closing song on some future episode belongs to the Four Seasons? “Dawn, go away, I’m no good for you…” - It felt like five minutes, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/77 "2012-04-04T16:52:52Z")
> [@Meltdown](#): > > I suppose I could go look up that thread, but I’m too lazy (like Roger). How would you pronounce “Don” and “Dawn” differently? To me, they sound exactly the same, and both rhyme with “gone.” They’re different in my accent, too. Click on the audio sample [here](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/don?s=t) for “don.” Click on the audio sample [here](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dawn?s=t) for “dawn.” And, for good measure, [here is “gone.”](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gone?s=t) This is what I assume **peedin** means when “dawn” and “gone” rhyme for him (as they do for me), but they do not rhyme with “don.” ---
**Author:** ![Meltdown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Meltdown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meltdown)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/78 "2012-04-04T17:43:22Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > They’re different in my accent, too. > > Click on the audio sample [here](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/don?s=t) for “don.” > > Click on the audio sample [here](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dawn?s=t) for “dawn.” > > And, for good measure, [here is “gone.”](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gone?s=t) > > This is what I assume **peedin** means when “dawn” and “gone” rhyme for him (as they do for me), but they do not rhyme with “don.” Got it. Thanks! I pronounce both Don and Dawn the same way the audio sample pronounces “dawn”. I’m not sure I pronounce any vowel sound the way the audio sample pronounces “don.” But I do hear the difference. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/79 "2012-04-04T18:01:09Z")
> [@Meltdown](#): > > Got it. Thanks! I pronounce both Don and Dawn the same way the audio sample pronounces “dawn”. I’m not sure I pronounce any vowel sound the way the audio sample pronounces “don.” But I do hear the difference. To be honest, I pronounce the “o” in “don” a little “sharper” than that, myself. If you go to the [first pronunciation here](http://www.forvo.com/word/don/), that’s how I say it. ---
**Author:** ![Meltdown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Meltdown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meltdown)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/80 "2012-04-04T18:25:53Z")
> [@Meltdown](#): > > I’m not sure I pronounce any vowel sound the way the audio sample pronounces “don.” I take that back. I think that’s approximately how I pronounce “Han”, as in Han Solo. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529.md?page=5)