# Mad-Men: 5.02 "Tea Leaves" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 1, 2012, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529 "2012-04-01T23:56:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/81 "2012-04-04T18:28:21Z")
I might point out that few (if any) of the characters on the show have New York accents, so it would be difficult to get them to adopt the New York pronunciations of “Don” and “Dawn.” ---
**Author:** ![Bytegeist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Bytegeist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bytegeist)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/82 "2012-04-04T19:08:45Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I might point out that few (if any) of the characters on the show have New York accents, so it would be difficult to get them to adopt the New York pronunciations of “Don” and “Dawn.” It’s [not just New York](http://loststates.blogspot.com/2011/04/say-don-say-dawn-now-i-know-where-you.html) though. Most of the eastern US distinguishes those words. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/83 "2012-04-04T19:20:07Z")
> [@Bytegeist](#): > > It’s [not just New York](http://loststates.blogspot.com/2011/04/say-don-say-dawn-now-i-know-where-you.html) though. Most of the eastern US distinguishes those words. Okay, few (if any) of the major characters on Mad Men have notably “eastern” accents. Thus, it would make it difficult for them to distinguish “Don” and “Dawn” in their speech. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/84 "2012-04-04T19:20:25Z")
> [@Bytegeist](#): > > It’s [not just New York](http://loststates.blogspot.com/2011/04/say-don-say-dawn-now-i-know-where-you.html) though. Most of the eastern US distinguishes those words. Hell, most of the US, by that map, both population-wise, and possibly geographically. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/85 "2012-04-04T19:29:26Z")
To be precise, according to the person who provided data for that map [“In fact, I have made the calculation, taking the population of all of the states and provinces, and estimating for the mixed states, and there are approximately 220,000,000 speakers for whom cot ≠ caught, and 130,000,000 for whom cot = caught.”](http://www.aschmann.net/AmEng/#_edn41) ETA: That actually complicates it, as it adds in Canadian data, but if you’re from the Midwest, the South, Texas, and most of the East (minus the Pittsburgh area and the Northeast), you probably distinguish “cot” and “caught.” ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/86 "2012-04-04T21:58:18Z")
> [@MaddyStrut](#): > > That’s interesting. I had a totally different take on the show ending with Sixteen Going on Seventeen. I was hit by the difference between the girls backstage at the Stones concert and the cheesy innocent kids singing the song. > > I interpreted Betty and Sally eating the sundaes as Betty trying to build up some happy times between her and the kids, but trying too late. Sally’s not interested in having sundaes with mom. It’s boring. I like that interpretation. Also, Don was obviously thinking about Sally a bit when talking to the girls; now that his daughter is moving in on the tweens and teens he’s probably reconsidering the liberated young female a bit as well. I thought Megan was very mature and secure regarding Betty’s diagnosis and even potentially being custodial stepmother this early into her marriage. It made me like her better. [QUOTE=peedin] Originally Posted by peedin I pronounce Dawn to rhyme with gone, but pronounce Don Dahn. Like the word dot, but an N instead of a T. [/QUOTE] Ditto here. (I’m from Alabama but when I’ve done “what regional accent do you have?” tests it usually places me in the MidAtlantic.) The only time I pronounce Don in a way that rhymes with Dawn is when I’m saying Don Corleone or Don Giovanni, though I think I may actually be mispronouncing it at those times (i.e. I think the Don before Giovanni is the same as the Don before Draper). ---
**Author:** ![Yaxche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8dc957/32.png) [@Yaxche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yaxche)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/87 "2012-04-05T04:06:56Z")
Watching these on demand, so I’m always way late to the party… But I did think it was odd they have two lines, and Henry - the “man” of the house - couldn’t take the news because the other one just happened to ring. We both remarked on that, so the point remains - we don’t know the test results with any certainty. Way too much commentary on it by Don and Megan to not have some implications I guess. Also, I really wish she’d just take her friend’s advice and get hit by the car already, I’m done with her story line, and she is the worst actor on the show by far. In fact, I can’t tell if she just brings Henry down by association, or he’s just gotten worse. I like the add of the jewish copywriter though, seems like some good Peggy tension there, and she needs more screen time. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/88 "2012-04-05T15:39:18Z")
> [@zeldarae](#): > > Betty clearly has either an underactive thyroid or Hashimoto’s disease. Both make you fat, tumor or no tumor. Waddayamean “clearly”? There’s something else that makes you fat, tumor or no tumor, and that something is Chips Ahoy. ---
**Author:** ![Bytegeist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Bytegeist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bytegeist)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/89 "2012-04-05T17:04:39Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > There’s something else that makes you fat, tumor or no tumor, and that something is Chips Ahoy. Whaddya know. That’s actually a [timely product](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chips_Ahoy). _Chips Ahoy! is a brand of chocolate chip cookies made by Nabisco, that debuted in 1963._ ---
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/90 "2012-04-05T19:11:31Z")
Ice cream sundaes often have a lot to do with it too. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/91 "2012-04-05T22:56:37Z")
Henry works in politics somehow and needs his own phone line for official business, that’s not odd. Nothing to do with anything, but Peggy’s clothing choices are awful so far. What’s with that stupid big white short sleeved blouse? And that green dress with that awful red - scarf? - looked stupid, too. I was in school in the 60’s and dressed much better. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/92 "2012-04-06T17:54:01Z")
> [@zeldarae](#): > > Last year I had the right side of my thyroid removed because of a benign tumor with pre-cancerous cells. My doctor told me the results of the initial test over the phone and we even discussed my options at that time. > > Betty clearly has either an underactive thyroid or Hashimoto’s disease. Both make you fat, tumor or no tumor. I don’t know what the procedure was back then, but I’d guess she would be going to the hospital to have it removed even if it was benign. And to check - could they tell with such a small sample back then? When I got half of my thyroid removed they could only biopsy it after they took it out. I was told either it was no problem or it would kill me in about 3 weeks. That was 20 years ago … But I agree that Betty is not lying. Don telling Megan that Betty has cancer before the results of the test came in was confusing, and I don’t quite get why he did that? Was he being a pessimist? Explaining why he cared? Hoping to get his kids back? ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/93 "2012-04-09T11:58:31Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Tagg Romney (son of Mitt, grandson of Gov. George) [responds](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/02/romney-mad-men-tagg-romney_n_1397017.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009): > > Seriously, Tagg Romney, referring to a single TV show as “lib media”? That’s a lamer appellation than Tagg. > > And while I admit the mention of Romney was gratuitous, the show didn’t take a position on him. A single character did. “Single character”…ya right, that makes all the difference…sheesh. The test will be whether this ep gets repeated in October. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/94 "2012-04-09T16:29:04Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > “Single character”…ya right, that makes all the difference…sheesh. > > The test will be whether this ep gets repeated in October. I’d love to believe in a rule that nothing characters say can be reflected back onto authors. Too many exceptions to this rule make it impossible to apply universally. I’ve read way too many authors who have the same set of opinions mouthed as “truths” in too many independent books for me to believe that they were coincidence. For me, the test is whether the opinion is necessary to the plot or the deepening of the character. And this fails. It’s a totally gratuitous throwaway line. It contributes nothing to the plot - we already knew Henry was working for Lindsay and while there were some real behind the scenes machinations between Rockefeller and Lindsay the Romney connection is distant - and nothing to Henry’s character. The episode already gives him a number of good scenes that do illume character. There’s no justification for inserting this line except to take a political shot that the audience of 2012 would recognize. Doesn’t matter whose mouth it’s put in. Tagg Romney is correct about this. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/95 "2012-04-09T16:34:21Z")
Tagg Romney is not correct, inasmuch as this show hardly represents “the liberal media”. Addressing it at all was just silly. Also, how am I supposed to take any of the Romneys seriously when they give their children such ridiculous names? ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/96 "2012-04-10T09:53:45Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Tagg Romney is not correct, inasmuch as this show hardly represents “the liberal media”. Addressing it at all was just silly. > > Also, how am I supposed to take any of the Romneys seriously when they give their children such ridiculous names? Who is making the case that the show represents the liberal media? I’d simply make the case that it is quite likely a shot at a Republican candidate and is likely to sway more than a few votes. Ever heard of subliminal messages? If I had the opportunity I’d throw in as many negative Obama references as I could get away with. Of course you couldn’t get away with many in Hollywood. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/97 "2012-04-10T13:44:45Z")
Erm… Tagg Romney. Or did you not read the original tweet? Most people aren’t as easily swayed as you imagine. I mean, it didn’t change your mind, right? I have, in fact, heard of subliminal messages. I even understand what the phrase means, and why it has nothing at all to do with what happened here. You do have the opportunity. Welcome to America, where you can say pretty much whatever you like. If you’re good enough at it, you can get away with it anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/98 "2012-04-10T15:03:42Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Erm… Tagg Romney. Or did you not read the original tweet? > > Most people aren’t as easily swayed as you imagine. I mean, it didn’t change your mind, right? I have, in fact, heard of subliminal messages. I even understand what the phrase means, and why it has nothing at all to do with what happened here. > > You do have the opportunity. Welcome to America, where you can say pretty much whatever you like. If you’re good enough at it, you can get away with it anywhere. “Nothing at all to do with” … do you disagree with the concept of subliminal messages? Do you think they work but something more “liminal” doesn’t? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/99 "2012-04-10T15:25:01Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > “Nothing at all to do with” … do you disagree with the concept of subliminal messages? Do you think they work but something more “liminal” doesn’t? “Liminal” is a real word, so no need to put it in quotes, but the word you’re looking for is “supraliminal.” (“Liminal” is the threshold of perception.) ---
**Author:** ![conway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ec9cab/32.png) [@conway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/conway)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529/100 "2012-04-10T15:25:32Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Don telling Megan that Betty has cancer before the results of the test came in was confusing, and I don’t quite get why he did that? Was he being a pessimist? Explaining why he cared? Hoping to get his kids back? He thought it would get him out of going to Fire Island. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-02-tea-leaves-open-spoilers/617529.md?page=6)