# Mad-Men: 5.03 "Mystery Date" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 9, 2012, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215 "2012-04-09T00:17:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/21 "2012-04-09T13:01:00Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Pete prancing around like the cock of the walk. I can’t wait until he gets knock off his perch. That just has to happen! So is Don coming down with lung cancer, you reckon? And **Eve** deserves a prize for planting the seeds in my mind for Sally to go all Manson Chick any day now. That will be the payoff of all payoffs for me. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/22 "2012-04-09T13:15:04Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I’m also glad Dr. McRapey is gone, but it’s strange that we’re all on Joan’s side even though she had a baby with another man. Everyone has flaws. Our best friends and closest relatives have trespassed some line or other. Why would that make us change sides? Anyway, none of us would be here without countless acts of cuckolding in our family trees. It’s a mundane sort of thing, which eventually becomes irrelevant. Plus, the other side is a rapist. And an idiot. And a very bad surgeon. Who knows how many wounded soldiers he’s killed with his incompetence? ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/23 "2012-04-09T13:18:59Z")
I did exactly what Sally did: snitched the paper, read about Richard Speck, did not sleep for, oh, about three _years_. I wish \*my \*grandma had given me some dolls! I spent the 1960s pretty much convinced that the Boston Strangler, Richard Speck, the Manson family, the Zodiac, and whoever killed Valerie Percy were all hiding in my bedroom closet. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/24 "2012-04-09T15:55:27Z")
> [@Zeldar](#): > > So is Don coming down with lung cancer, you reckon? I think his cough/illness was just an excuse for him to have the fever dream. I thought it was interesting that all they had in the office was aspirin. If I remember right, there weren’t many OTC remedies for colds and flu in 1966. I didn’t remember anything about the nurse murders. I thought Richard Speck was the guy with a rifle in a tower at a college somewhere. Texas? Guess I’d better brush up on my mass murder history. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/25 "2012-04-09T16:05:15Z")
Charles Whitman. Which made for a hilarious one-liner in FX’s Archer when Archer, upon observing a colleague expertly snipe a Cuban hit squad, dubs the act “A Charles Whitman Sampler.” ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/26 "2012-04-09T16:24:00Z")
I generally frown upon dream sequences, so that slightly downgrades this episode for me. Otherwise I thought it was stellar. I loved the scene in the bar with Don, Ginsberg and Ken. “You realize you almost got fired, just now.” “I don’t think it was that close.” “I do.” ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/27 "2012-04-09T17:49:20Z")
What I find really odd about Grandma Francis is that she appears to be the same age as her son! I can’t find an age listed anywhere for either performer, but they both look to be in their early fifties. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/28 "2012-04-09T17:54:44Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Watching Peggy squeeze Roger was fun. > > They need to find something new for Don to do. They’ve squeezed the mysterious past angle and the serial adulterer angle for about all they’re worth. Now he only does interesting things during dream sequences. I agree. Don has become boring; he doesn’t even have those brilliant insights into advertising pitches that he used to have. At this point, he could almost leave the series and not be missed, just like Betty is doing. Roger still rocks the place and has the best lines and scenes. At least we’re through with the Doctor McRaper story arc, and Joan will be returning to the workplace next episode it seems. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/29 "2012-04-09T18:13:17Z")
I think it’s interesting, at least to me, how Don has gone from uber-hip and all that to actually looking a bit fuddy-duddy compared to all the young, hip folks at the firm (and his wife!). ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/30 "2012-04-09T18:32:56Z")
I’m looking forward to watching how Joan Holloway got her groove back. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/31 "2012-04-09T19:17:23Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > For all the times I’ve been enraptured by symbolism in this series, I didn’t need something as heavy-handed as Don “literally” murdering his adulterous past. I had her pegged as a hallucination from the first time she arrived at the apartment and was rolling my eyes throughout. I’m also not sure what the hell that was - but it didn’t work for me, either. Most of the rest of the episode did. I loved Peggy & Roger and felt triumphant when Joan kicked out Greg. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/32 "2012-04-09T19:28:54Z")
I like how Joan’s mother is simultaneously a greedy, superficial, and hypercritical little troublemaker AND a genuinely helpful and concerned mom. The two natures can co-exist. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/33 "2012-04-09T20:02:34Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Roger still rocks the place and has the best lines and scenes. At least we’re through with the Doctor McRaper story arc, and Joan will be returning to the workplace next episode it seems. And Roger laid the groundwork during Don’s birthday party for being unhappy in his (second) marriage. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/34 "2012-04-09T20:39:51Z")
Exhibit A for why dream sequences are the lazy writer’s worst enemy. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/35 "2012-04-09T20:56:58Z")
Oh, boo. A fever dream sequence, _really_? That couldn’t have been more corny if I’d been watching it in the fields out back of my grandma’s house in Nebraska. And, I’m all for compressed storytelling and show-don’t-tell, but some – _any_ – buildup to Joan’s decision would have been a good thing. We went from Joan conniving to sex up her hubby so’s he won’t notice her bastard spawn, to Joan angry at her rapist husband for not staying around to sex her up, to Joan going to bed and waking up deciding what the heck the marriage was over. And Greg arriving at the same decision in less than one minute after she brings up the idea. Feels like there should have been _another_ fever dream sequence of Joan’s stuffing Greg under the bed, or something, to explain the emotional whiplash. The pieces that made up her decision are probably scattered all over the last few episodes, but they forgot to put in something to unify them into one perspective. At least Don’s crappy fever dream did _that_. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/36 "2012-04-09T21:07:36Z")
Sepinwall has a good point that the fever dream worked BECAUSE it was fairly obvious from the start to be a dream. From [his review](http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/mad-men-mystery-date-nightmares-and-dreamscapes): > [@](#): > > I’m curious when each of you figured out that Andrea’s presence in the apartment was a dream. For me, it was the seduction scene, not just because it seemed far too long had passed for Megan to not be home, but because it seemed so blatantly a fantasy/nightmare come to life. And I’m glad it did, because the only way the strangulation scene would have been acceptable to me was with the understanding going in that it was a dream. Had the show not telegraphed that — or had I not figured it out — and Don woke up the next morning with no corpse on the floor, I’d have been irked. That’s not a game “Mad Men” should be playing, and one that I’m assuming it wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![lisacurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/41988e/32.png) [@lisacurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisacurl)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/37 "2012-04-09T21:11:48Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > What I find really odd about Grandma Francis is that she appears to be the same age as her son! I can’t find an age listed anywhere for either performer, but they both look to be in their early fifties. I think they are closer in age than biologically feasible, with Grandma Francis appearing to be in her mid-60s, given her imdb profile. The actor playing Henry Francis is overly careful about avoiding his age being mentioned anywhere, so I’m figuring he’s mid-50s playing ten years younger. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/38 "2012-04-09T21:31:45Z")
Last week’s dream sequence was obvious from the first second. This week’s dream sequence was a direct cheat of the audience. It’s hard enough to believe that the sniffles can create hallucinations of that magnitude or that a mere cold could lead to a complete blackout that lasts overnight. Fever dreams are real, but it’s impossible to imagine that in them you’re exactly as sniffy and feverish as you are in real life. We were being told something important about Don Draper until we weren’t. I wanted to believe it was real because it would have been far more interesting that way. Both new characters are being handled badly as well. Dawn is being used as a symbol rather than as a person. Ginsburg has been in the office for literally a week if I have the timing right. He hasn’t had time to even learn about the campaign, and there’s no way anybody in that office would have allowed him to speak at the presentation let alone lead it. He should have been cut off after the first syllable when he mentioned Cinderella. The writer credited with Weiner is Victor Levin. He’s never worked on Mad Men before. On IMDb he has some 90s sitcoms credits and a bunch of nothing meaningful since. Let’s hope we never see his name again. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/39 "2012-04-09T21:40:04Z")
> [@lisacurl](#): > > I think they are closer in age than biologically feasible, with Grandma Francis appearing to be in her mid-60s, given her imdb profile. The actor playing Henry Francis is overly careful about avoiding his age being mentioned anywhere, so I’m figuring he’s mid-50s playing ten years younger. The actor is 52 years old. Let’s say he is playing 48 and the mother is playing 65. Seventeen years is too hard to believe. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/40 "2012-04-09T22:05:28Z")
Did they just drop the problem of Joan having a baby by someone else since her husband was overseas at time of conception? Or are we to infer she made a quick visit to see him at his base before he left (she was taking a bus ride last season after visiting the clinic, so she might not have been going back to NY but to whereever the husband was.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215.md?page=3)