# Mad-Men: 5.03 "Mystery Date" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 9, 2012, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215 "2012-04-09T00:17:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/161 "2012-04-12T19:58:04Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Did she? When? I don’t recall that. Although, I think they are going to have to reveal that _something_ like that happened They already did. After she decided not to abort, she got on the bus to Fort Dix or wherever he was at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/162 "2012-04-12T20:05:51Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Did she? When? I don’t recall that. Although, I think they are going to have to reveal that _something_ like that happened, because the baby was conceived something like **7 weeks** after Greg left. And, I’m sorry, but no one in the service is that dumb. And no doctor is that dumb. A week or two? Sure. But almost 2 months??! No way. I don’t know what she did, but she had to have done something, because this is just not believable. But I have faith Weiner will explain in the end. I think that’s what the bus ride was supposed to be - her going off to see her husband at his base for a bit of cover story. Kind of like Uriah & Bathsheba, though of course Uriah didn’t take her up on it… ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/163 "2012-04-12T23:04:09Z")
> [@Zeldar](#): > > Don’t give up on that idea! I wouldn’t be at all surprised to learn of his demise the same way M_A_S\*H dealt with the death of [McLean Stevenson’s character.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLean_Stevenson) Not quite the same. Here it would have been to show the increasing impact of the war on the US. There was plenty of death in MASH already - and they killed him off in retaliation for McLean Stevenson leaving the show. It also had great dramatic impact - I saw it first run, and it was a gigantic surprise. My site for retaliation - McClean Stevenson was on Johnny Carson not long after, and he was rather pissed about getting dunked into the sea. No return visits for you! Greg is pretty minor, and simple to sacrifice. The reason I think they may not is that they’ve reduced the dramatic impact of his death. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/164 "2012-04-12T23:05:40Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > 1960s mores were different. Most men left all that to the women to think about. It was a very different time for most middle class white guys. My first kid was born only 15 years after the time of this show. I might give them a pass for a regular guy, but a doctor is going to know the timelines fairly well. Especially since he was gone. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/165 "2012-04-12T23:11:48Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Did she? When? I don’t recall that. Although, I think they are going to have to reveal that _something_ like that happened, because the baby was conceived something like **7 weeks** after Greg left. And, I’m sorry, but no one in the service is that dumb. And no doctor is that dumb. A week or two? Sure. But almost 2 months??! No way. I don’t know what she did, but she had to have done something, because this is just not believable. But I have faith Weiner will explain in the end. I sometimes have a hard time with detailed timelines in this show. Weiner has said that everything people do will have consequences. Now Joan cheating on Greg and not having an abortion already has consequences in terms of the baby, but I’m expecting more which will rebound on Joan. And Greg leaving her - both to go back and permanently - would seem to do nicely. Especially if he tells her he reupped because of her cheating, and then gets himself killed. Guilt, guilt, guilt! Well, if I were plotting it that’s what I’d do. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/166 "2012-04-12T23:53:53Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > They already did. After she decided not to abort, she got on the bus to Fort Dix or wherever he was at the time. > [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > I think that’s what the bus ride was supposed to be - her going off to see her husband at his base for a bit of cover story. Kind of like Uriah & Bathsheba, though of course Uriah didn’t take her up on it… Ok, looks like I need to rewatch some Mad Men tonight. Darn! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/167 "2012-04-13T04:25:34Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Can you cite an example of a successful prosecution of spousal rape from 1965 or earlier? The term “spousal rape” was invented in 1978, when Greta Rideout attempted to prosecute her husband for it; prior to then, judges worked on the assumption that wives were assumed by law to consent to their husbands’ urges, or would file for divorce. Greta Rideout later dropped the charges, so she doesn’t count as the first successful prosecution–just the first to get the concept into law books. IANAL, but I remember a lot of the commentary from that case when it was happening; I was a senior in high school at the time. I’m not claiming here that no man ever raped his wife prior to 1978, only that there was no law in America that specifically addressed the situation. ---
**Author:** ![DonLogan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@DonLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DonLogan)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/168 "2012-04-13T12:09:05Z")
Two dream sequences in three eps is making me nervous. I hate dream sequences. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/169 "2012-04-13T12:27:42Z")
I also hate dream sequences; they never seem like real dreams and they are a cheap way to tell a story. It looks like the Weiner picked up some bad habits from his time at the Sopranos. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/170 "2012-04-13T13:21:34Z")
Dreams are tricky. There might be very good reasons to depict dreams in a narrative. But if you make a dream “realistic” then it obviously becomes a dream, because the edges are undefined, text isn’t readable, things don’t hold their positions in physical place. Voices don’t come from particular places. But to the person in the dream, it is experienced without the knowledge that it isn’t real. So if you want to re-create that experience, you have to stage it as if it is a waking event. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/171 "2012-04-13T14:02:35Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > My first kid was born only 15 years after the time of this show. I might give them a pass for a regular guy, but a doctor is going to know the timelines fairly well. Especially since he was gone. But, this is assuming that he is suspicious and actually runs through the numbers. I travel a lot, and I’ve never sat down and figured out the math on whether my own kids could possibly not be mine. Even the one that looks nothing like me. Maybe I should… ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/172 "2012-04-13T16:15:10Z")
Hell, even **mothers** didn’t obsess over their pregnancies/due dates in the 60’s, let alone fathers. You missed a period, waited a couple weeks (or longer), went to the doctor, the rabbit died, and you’d get a ballpark due date. I have absolutely no problem with Greg not being suspicious. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/173 "2012-04-13T16:27:52Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > Hell, even **mothers** didn’t obsess over their pregnancies/due dates in the 60’s, let alone fathers. You missed a period, waited a couple weeks (or longer), went to the doctor, the rabbit died, and you’d get a ballpark due date. I have absolutely no problem with Greg not being suspicious. I know the due dates are estimates - my first kid was 2 weeks late, and the second got induced after she was 2 weeks late and the doctor was about to go on vacation. But we’re talking actual birthdays here, not estimates. I can buy that Joan would have given him an earlier supposed due date (no internet then, but they did have actual letters 🙂 ) but subtracting 9 months isn’t all that difficult. I didn’t remember her visiting him before he left, so that could be an explanation, but we still need to know why Greg is acting like he did. I understand that he likes the Army, since he is a success there after being a failure in civilian life. But he would still be in the Army even Stateside. Why deliberately volunteer to be away from his wife and supposed child for another year? Then he left pretty easily, and he sure didn’t treat the baby like I would have treated my child the first time I saw him. Someone mentioned that he didn’t seem to care much about the baby as he was leaving; I think that is telling. But mostly, the writing in Mad Men is too good to leave such a major plot issue hanging. As for **Fiveyearlurker** , being away for a week is a lot different from being away for a year. There was plenty of talk about the “premature” babies of newlyweds back then. 9 month terms didn’t get invented in the '80s. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/174 "2012-04-13T16:43:57Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I understand that he likes the Army, since he is a success there after being a failure in civilian life. But he would still be in the Army even Stateside. Why deliberately volunteer to be away from his wife and supposed child for another year? Greg is a shitty surgeon. Think of all the amazing trauma cases he gets to work on in Vietnam that he would _never_ get to see if he stayed in the country. It must be like heaven for him, finally getting the respect he deserves, and all the cool cases to boot! ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/175 "2012-04-13T16:57:30Z")
I think that Greg just really likes his job in Vietnam, and feels a genuine duty to return. Note his reaction to seeing a fellow serviceman in the restaurant. I think Greg and Joan are somewhat similar in that they liked the idea of what the other represented (handsome young doctor, sexy housewife), but aren’t particularly interested in the reality. Joan wants to go back to work, too. Also, why are we just assuming he’s a terrible surgeon? We know he didn’t get the position he wanted at the hospital, but I didn’t take that as an indication that he’s simply hopeless. It’s easy to ascribe a bunch of horrible characteristics to Greg, but he isn’t a completely worthless human being. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/176 "2012-04-13T17:13:46Z")
> [@shy\_guy](#): > > Also, why are we just assuming he’s a terrible surgeon? We know he didn’t get the position he wanted at the hospital, but I didn’t take that as an indication that he’s simply hopeless. It’s easy to ascribe a bunch of horrible characteristics to Greg, but he isn’t a completely worthless human being. His boss at the hospital pretty much said that he’s not a good surgeon and suggested he try a different specialty. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/177 "2012-04-13T17:18:04Z")
> [@shy\_guy](#): > > Also, why are we just assuming he’s a terrible surgeon? We know he didn’t get the position he wanted at the hospital, but I didn’t take that as an indication that he’s simply hopeless. It’s easy to ascribe a bunch of horrible characteristics to Greg, but he isn’t a completely worthless human being. I’m remembering someone from the hospital – the couple who came to dinner when Joan played her squeezebox? – saying that Greg should consider another specialty. I agree that he’s getting satisfaction from the military that he’s not getting at home. It seems that he’s gung ho about the mission in Viet Nam as well. Joan can’t compete with that. Weiner probably won’t forget about this plot point, but it’s hard to say how he’ll work it in, whether it will be something between Joan and Roger or Joan and Greg. If Greg refuses to give Joan a divorce, maybe she’ll hit him with it, as a last resort. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/178 "2012-04-13T18:31:36Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Greg is a shitty surgeon. Think of all the amazing trauma cases he gets to work on in Vietnam that he would _never_ get to see if he stayed in the country. It must be like heaven for him, finally getting the respect he deserves, and all the cool cases to boot! I got the impression that it wasn’t that he was doing great surgery, but that he had a high and important position where people depended on him. But it is clear that he loves it there. It is also clear that he isn’t a Frank Burns. At least I think not, and he could be if he were doing surgery. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/179 "2012-04-13T18:33:42Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > Weiner probably won’t forget about this plot point, but it’s hard to say how he’ll work it in, whether it will be something between Joan and Roger or Joan and Greg. If Greg refuses to give Joan a divorce, maybe she’ll hit him with it, as a last resort. I was thinking of Greg hitting her with it, but maybe you are right. A Roger - Greg showdown would be really interesting, and be consistent with Roger’s flaws finally catching up with him. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215/180 "2012-04-13T18:59:50Z")
There was an unspecified incident. Joan: So what happens?You’re still a doctor, right? Greg: I am. I’m just not a surgeon, and I will never be a surgeon. Joan: Did they fire you? Greg: I don’t want to talk about it, Joanie, okay? He would never be a surgeon without the war. I shudder to think what butchery he’s performing on those soldiers. His conversation with the private in the restaurant served to show that hr was caught up in the trappings of the military. It masks his incompetence. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-03-mystery-date-open-spoilers/618215.md?page=10)