# Mad-Men: 5.04 "Signal 30" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 16, 2012, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-04-signal-30-open-spoilers/618907 "2012-04-16T00:34:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-04-signal-30-open-spoilers/618907/81 "2012-04-17T13:51:36Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > Because they are all grown women married to those men? And not young high school girls being hit on by a screwup who is hoping to use them to make himself feel better? Back in the time frame of this show, there wasn’t as much of a taboo on men of Pete’s age chasing after 17-18 year old girls. Heck, half the pop-songs that came out around that time are about the practice. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-04-signal-30-open-spoilers/618907/82 "2012-04-17T14:04:13Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > Perhaps your relationships have been vastly different from mine, but wives spilling the beans has been par for the course in my life, especially after they get to drinking. Oh, no, there has been plenty of spilling beans on both sides of my marriage, and such experience and its unpleasant fallout informs my reaction. Noooooooooooooooooooooooo! > [@shy\_guy](#): > > Cynthia was just proud of her husband, and excited for him. Bitter experience has told me that even when you are proud and excited, when you are in the company of business colleagues, you watch what you talk about. > [@](#): > > He’s not _angry_; he’s just embarrassed, and probably mostly because he thinks the others will make fun of him for writing sci-fi. Which is even more reason not to bring it up. Being embarrassed in front of your office acquaintances and bosses can have serious consequences. > [@](#): > > It’s also worth noting that Pete absolutely hates everything about Ken, and is jealous and resentful of him. …Given all that, who knows what Pete actually told Roger about Ken’s activities; it probably had very little to do with the reality. Yeah, even more reason to keep shtum. Pete is dangerous and vindictive. You don’t let that kind of guy in on your personal life, regardless of how proud and excited it makes your spouse. > [@salinqmind](#): > > Because they are all grown women What’s a grown woman? Legal age of consent seems the best measure to me. > [@](#): > > married to those men? The lusting began long before any marriage. > [@](#): > > being hit on by a screwup who is hoping to use them to make himself feel better? You’re making them sound even more alike to me. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-04-signal-30-open-spoilers/618907/83 "2012-04-17T14:19:56Z")
One thing I liked about the Lane/Joan scene was Joan’s reassurance to Lane that he’s not like the other partners. I don’t know how true that is, but it has been a running theme this season that it’s simply difficult for outsiders to relate to people like Pete and Don, whether it’s Megan embarrassing herself at Don’s party or Lane’s reaction to everything that happened with his friend. It’s something that we actually saw with Ken at the end of last season when he refused to jeopardize his personal relationships for his job. It can be easy to lose sight of the fact that the main characters of the show are all blindly ambitious, miserable, unpleasant basket cases. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky_the_Wonder_Spirit)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-04-signal-30-open-spoilers/618907/84 "2012-04-17T14:51:25Z")
> [@Nunzio\_Tavulari](#): > > But you don’t have any problem with Roger & his wife, or Don, or Henry. Why? How do you know I don’t have any problem with those other guys, exactly? Roger and Don are both generally repulsive scum when it comes to their interactions with women. I thought Don was a skeeze when he was hitting on Anna’s niece last season, and I thought Harry was a skeeze at the Rolling Stone’s concert. Middle-aged men hitting on teenaged girls is gross. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-04-signal-30-open-spoilers/618907/85 "2012-04-17T15:46:13Z")
The ultimate skeeze was drunken horse’s ass Roger playing giddyup with one of the twin models, in her underwear, in the office after hours. That was a truly vomitous scene. In real life the actresses were 18. But according to some, that’s perfectly fine because they were over the ‘age of consent’. ---
**Author:** ![Prelude\_to\_Fascination](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Prelude\_to\_Fascination](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prelude_to_Fascination)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-04-signal-30-open-spoilers/618907/86 "2012-04-17T16:05:10Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > The ultimate skeeze was drunken horse’s ass Roger playing giddyup with one of the twin models, in her underwear, in the office after hours. That was a truly vomitous scene. In real life the actresses were 18. But according to some, that’s perfectly fine because they were over the ‘age of consent’. Do you have a problem with the actresses performing that scene, or the portrayal of the characters? (By the way, I may or may not disagree with your opinion either way, but will respect it regardless–just to get that out of the way.) My opinion of the real-life actresses doing that is it’s nothing, they’re actresses. It’s no different than an actor portraying a slave or serial killer. I’m reminded of the answer Werner Klemperer gave when someone asked how he could portray Col. Klink (and I’m paraphrasing from memory, no direct cite): “I’m an actor. It’s a part.” Now, what that scene _portrays_ is pretty despicable, vile, and vomitous, because it’s degrading to women. That doesn’t mean the actresses were any more degraded in real life than Levar Burton was in _Roots_ when he wore a collar around his neck and was “whipped” for the program. And remember also, Roger was in blackface at his Derby party, which was damned offensive as well in reality, but in the context of the show, it served to portray the character as a real sleazeball, only reinforced by the scene you’re offended by (I don’t remember which came first, but my point is the character of Roger’s a racist, misogynist asshole, but that doesn’t mean the actor(s) have to be). ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-04-signal-30-open-spoilers/618907/87 "2012-04-17T16:15:15Z")
There were a lot of degrading things about that scene, probably the actual riding was the worst. I didn’t think the girls’ ages were a significant issue. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-04-signal-30-open-spoilers/618907/88 "2012-04-17T16:22:34Z")
> [@Prelude\_to\_Fascination](#): > > And remember also, Roger was in blackface at his Derby party, which was damned offensive as well in reality, but in the context of the show, it served to portray the character as a real sleazeball, only reinforced by the scene you’re offended by (I don’t remember which came first, but my point is the character of Roger’s a racist, misogynist asshole, but that doesn’t mean the actor(s) have to be). …No. The minstrel number at the Derby party was NOT to show Roger as a sleazeball or even a racist. It was partly just one of those classic “Mad Men” things used to be like THIS! moments, but it also was to show how Don and Pete were different from the others in attendance. They were the only two not laughing along. Arguably for all their own issues those two are the most progressive male thinkers on the show. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-04-signal-30-open-spoilers/618907/89 "2012-04-17T17:06:09Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > It was Wilt Chamberlain, wasn’t it? Didn’t look big enough for him to me. I think the exchange was a bit of a wink to us viewers with knowledge of the future. Why would Wilt Chamberlain want to lay down? I can think of [20,000 reasons.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_life_of_Wilt_Chamberlain#Love_life_and_.E2.80.9C20.2C000_women.E2.80.9D_claim) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-04-signal-30-open-spoilers/618907/90 "2012-04-17T17:18:17Z")
Lying down inside a stereo cabinet doesn’t work as a “has a lot of sex” joke to me. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-04-signal-30-open-spoilers/618907/91 "2012-04-17T17:37:49Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Lying down inside a stereo cabinet doesn’t work as a “has a lot of sex” joke to me. Ditto. It was simply Pete bragging about how big it was, just because bigger was better. Wilt Chamberlain was the epitome of “big”, so it was natural to compare it to him. He was ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-04-signal-30-open-spoilers/618907/92 "2012-04-17T17:50:30Z")
Peggy is a writer. She clearly wants to write more than just ad copy. Some envy and such over Cosgrove’s success was quite visible. There is a hint that this might encourage her to start writing on the side. She seemed to like the SF that Cosgrove wrote. Could she actually end up being a rare (especially in the 1960s) SF writer? They brought up Pete’s gun. He is on yet another down cycle. I think they are implying he might go postal, but I don’t think they will actually do that. Pete thinks he’s God’s gift to the universe. Everybody must respect and admire him. All women must want to offer themselves to him. In his mind, he is perfect. He is not without some skills and such, so he’s not a total loser, but the gap between his expectations and reality come thru from time to time. This season is building on that. No Betty, no Sally. I was wondering last week, when I at first thought the Chicago killer was Whitman, if they’d play with that. Just a little bit this week. What if Dick Whitman was related to Charles Whitman and there was a news report mentioning his relatives. And what if Pete sees it? Or Betty? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-04-signal-30-open-spoilers/618907/93 "2012-04-17T17:59:01Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > The chewing gum on the pubis – anyone else remember a movie or TV show where something similar happened ? I do, but I can’t place it. It was a plot point in the novel _The Lonely Polygamist_ a couple of years ago. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-04-signal-30-open-spoilers/618907/94 "2012-04-17T18:20:17Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Pete thinks he’s God’s gift to the universe. Everybody must respect and admire him. All women must want to offer themselves to him. In his mind, he is perfect. The scene with the prostitute, as she’s running through various ‘personas’ was brilliant. I thought he’d like the ‘innocent virgin’ one, given his attraction to the student, but clearly it’s the ‘master of his world’ bit that gets him going. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-04-signal-30-open-spoilers/618907/95 "2012-04-17T18:26:43Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Ditto. It was simply Pete bragging about how big it was, just because bigger was better. Wilt Chamberlain was the epitome of “big”, so it was natural to compare it to him. He was It was also a reminder of how nowadays everything is smaller. ---
**Author:** ![Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8dc957/32.png) [@Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Christopher_Robin_Davies)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-04-signal-30-open-spoilers/618907/96 "2012-04-17T18:43:46Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Peggy is a writer. She clearly wants to write more than just ad copy. Some envy and such over Cosgrove’s success was quite visible. There is a hint that this might encourage her to start writing on the side. She seemed to like the SF that Cosgrove wrote. Could she actually end up being a rare (especially in the 1960s) SF writer? > > They brought up Pete’s gun. He is on yet another down cycle. I think they are implying he might go postal, but I don’t think they will actually do that. > > Pete thinks he’s God’s gift to the universe. Everybody must respect and admire him. All women must want to offer themselves to him. In his mind, he is perfect. > > He is not without some skills and such, so he’s not a total loser, but the gap between his expectations and reality come thru from time to time. This season is building on that. > > No Betty, no Sally. > > I was wondering last week, when I at first thought the Chicago killer was Whitman, if they’d play with that. Just a little bit this week. What if Dick Whitman was related to Charles Whitman and there was a news report mentioning his relatives. And what if Pete sees it? Or Betty? I do not believe that will happen, but I wish to point out that Bert, Megan, and Faye also know Don’s true identity. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-04-signal-30-open-spoilers/618907/97 "2012-04-17T18:54:06Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Peggy is a writer. She clearly wants to write more than just ad copy. Some envy and such over Cosgrove’s success was quite visible. I didn’t get that at all. She was just irked when she thought Ken was seeing potential clients behind her back. She was interested in Ken’s writing once she found out what was going on, but I think that’s just because she likes Ken and she’s curious about things generally. I don’t think we know that she’s written a single thing outside of ad copy, and I don’t think she has that ambition. The thing about Pete is that while he’s a slimy, egotistical jerk, he’s not a total loser. In business matters, he’s _right_ most of the time. SCDP wouldn’t be around if it wasn’t for him, and he’s not wrong about things like Roger being useless, the benefits of advertising to blacks, doing business with the Japanese, or Lane not being able to handle sealing the deal with his friend. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-04-signal-30-open-spoilers/618907/98 "2012-04-17T18:57:04Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Ditto. It was simply Pete bragging about how big it was, just because bigger was better. Wilt Chamberlain was the epitome of “big”, so it was natural to compare it to him. He was That scene had me tripping down memory lane. My dad had a virtually identical stereo, and he always bragged about what a beautiful piece of furniture it was. He didn’t care much about the sound quality when he played his Mantovani records. ---
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-04-signal-30-open-spoilers/618907/99 "2012-04-17T19:13:57Z")
> [@shy\_guy](#): > > I didn’t get that at all. She was just irked when she thought Ken was seeing potential clients behind her back. Not potential clients, but potential future employers. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-04-signal-30-open-spoilers/618907/100 "2012-04-17T19:42:40Z")
This was a great episode, especially in contrast to last week’s which might have been the worst ever. As usual, we got lots of little references between scenes, the best of which was the story of the robot unfastening the bolt because that’s the only free action in his life and the valve tightening/loosening scenes with Pete and Don. Pete is too tightly wound and Don is finally beginning to loosen up. And humiliation is the order of the day for almost everybody - Pete, Laine, the English guy, Ken, their wives, the prostitutes. Oddest line was from Don, who talked about having grown up in a whorehouse. That’s not what we know. His mother was a prostitute but he was brought up on a farm. Maybe that’s where he spent his missing years and that’s foreshadowing for future developments. As for hitting on the high school girl. We’re talking about a time when the average age of first marriage for women was 20. Marrying straight out of high school was the norm. Society getting more permissive only fed into that and the attitude here that it’s skeevy for older men to think about nubile (which means of marriageable age) girls is something newer than 1966. That they weren’t married would have been more condemned than her age. Just like Jerry Lee Lewis’ third wife was far more condemned for being his cousin than for being 13. Ken’s writing f&sf felt wrong. You can’t imagine today how much everybody looked down at the f&sf magazines. Nobody who had been published in Harper’s would condescend to that level, even if his writing was as Vonnegutian as it was made out to be. I can’t think of a single case of that happening. That’s more anachronistic than anything else in the episode. Wilt Chamberlain was 7’1". He wouldn’t fit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-04-signal-30-open-spoilers/618907.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-04-signal-30-open-spoilers/618907.md?page=6)