# Mad-Men: 5.07 "At the Codfish Ball" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 30, 2012, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-07-at-the-codfish-ball-open-spoilers/620380 "2012-04-30T01:50:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-07-at-the-codfish-ball-open-spoilers/620380/61 "2012-05-01T14:49:42Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > By the way, am I the only one who hated the ad campaign. I know it spoke to the client, so in that sense it was good. But, ugh, nothing ever changes, the future (ironically what the client thought he wanted) is identical to the past…beans. and not just beans, mom serving beans. If I saw that commercial I would be depressed beyond belief (ok that’s exaggeration, but I would still hate it). An ad that works in 1967 won’t necessarily resonate today. You need to think like a 60s person. **Shy guy** : The connection between the ad and the script was actually made explicit during the show. Having all the generations there is what Megan said made her think of the ad. But they played that theme out well beyond the scope of the ad. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-07-at-the-codfish-ball-open-spoilers/620380/62 "2012-05-01T14:58:30Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > I would like to say, I was Sally’s age in the 60’s, and I’m not at all sure about her outfit for the dinner. It looked more 70’s-ish (I had a silver lame outfit by then) and the white go-go boots? They were too high. (I had the boots and they were not even knee high.) Did you live in Manhattan with your dad’s hip young French wife? Could be that they are a few years ahead of most other folks, fashion-wise. ---
**Author:** ![MaddyStrut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@MaddyStrut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaddyStrut)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-07-at-the-codfish-ball-open-spoilers/620380/63 "2012-05-01T15:05:06Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > An ad that works in 1967 won’t necessarily resonate today. You need to think like a 60s person. > > **Shy guy** : The connection between the ad and the script was actually made explicit during the show. Having all the generations there is what Megan said made her think of the ad. But they played that theme out well beyond the scope of the ad. I wonder how the ad would have played to different demographic groups in the 60’s. Didn’t the client say earlier that he wanted something to appeal to the younger audience? If so, I don’t know that “generations coming together” and a sentimental look through history and the future (and turning into your mother :eek: ) would have worked for a 20 something in 1966. Certainly it would have worked with their parents who likely felt they couldn’t relate to their young adult children with all the social changes going on in the 60’s. But the kids themselves? I would think they’d want to break away from continuing things that had always been done that way. But I was born in '66 and don’t remember much. It could be that young adults were looking to regain connections with their parents. And, really, the ad had to appeal to the _client_, and he was an old fart. I’ve seen clients go for ads that do not appeal to their target audience in any way, but they appeal to the client so they get chosen. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-07-at-the-codfish-ball-open-spoilers/620380/64 "2012-05-01T15:15:30Z")
The Heinz ad had to appeal to the client. He was misguided in wanting to appeal to the young folks; once we started cooking our own food, we realized that dry beans were cheaper & potentially tastier than canned crap. The ad campaign would possibly resonate with the “general” (adult) audience. But the spacey part appealed to the bean guy’s wish to seem modern… ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-07-at-the-codfish-ball-open-spoilers/620380/65 "2012-05-01T15:19:41Z")
I feel like a saw a commercial just like the one pitched maybe a year ago. I think it might have been for soup. Had a mom serving to her daughter, and then that daughter as an adult serving to her daughter, and so on. It wasn’t through the ages, just three or four generations. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-07-at-the-codfish-ball-open-spoilers/620380/66 "2012-05-01T15:47:18Z")
I want to commend the actress playing Peggy’s Ma for her New York dialect; rarely have I heard the word “youse” used so effectively. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-07-at-the-codfish-ball-open-spoilers/620380/67 "2012-05-01T16:30:23Z")
Best episode of the season - you got to see the whole picture. Don learned the firm is hitting a brick wall and he also realized his young wife has more business sense at this time than he does. Roger is still trying to drum up business like he has always done but it isn’t working like it used to. Peggy is seeing the next woman climbing to the top and also seeing her life put in a position of settling into what she can take and get. In soap operas, the head writer has what they call a “bible” - it is a book that has all of the subplots and stories for years and years to come. It is a closely guarded secret book that few, if any, ever get to see - but it keeps all the storylines on track. I think the writers of Mad Men now have their “bible” in place - a grand plan and a vision of how and where this show is going to end. I am looking forward to watching things unfold. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-07-at-the-codfish-ball-open-spoilers/620380/68 "2012-05-01T16:51:45Z")
So is the Heinz guy an executive who controls advertising or is it supposed to be [H.J. Heinz ii](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._J._Heinz_II)himself? (H.J. was the father-in-law of the future, second, and richest Mrs. John Kerry, though it’s doubtful he was prescient enough to have this on his business cards in the 1960s.) ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-07-at-the-codfish-ball-open-spoilers/620380/69 "2012-05-01T16:52:51Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > In soap operas, the head writer has what they call a “bible” - it is a book that has all of the subplots and stories for years and years to come. It is a closely guarded secret book that few, if any, ever get to see - but it keeps all the storylines on track. > > I think the writers of Mad Men now have their “bible” in place - a grand plan and a vision of how and where this show is going to end. I am looking forward to watching things unfold. …Huh? Nearly all TV shows have their “bible.” They aren’t really big books of secrets. In fact they are required reading for new staff. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-07-at-the-codfish-ball-open-spoilers/620380/70 "2012-05-01T16:53:53Z")
Isn’t Don’s Heinz guy only the beans, vinegars, and sauces guy? SCDP doesn’t even have ketchup. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-07-at-the-codfish-ball-open-spoilers/620380/71 "2012-05-01T18:06:30Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > I feel like a saw a commercial just like the one pitched maybe a year ago. I think it might have been for soup. Had a mom serving to her daughter, and then that daughter as an adult serving to her daughter, and so on. It wasn’t through the ages, just three or four generations. I don’t know about soup, but there’s one for laundry appliances, or laundry soap. I agree that the ad will appeal to the people buying the beans – moms and dads who are unsettled by what’s going on, wanting some reassurance that “some things never change”. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-07-at-the-codfish-ball-open-spoilers/620380/72 "2012-05-01T18:15:51Z")
I thought it was Juliette Binoche until I read this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Bytegeist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Bytegeist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bytegeist)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-07-at-the-codfish-ball-open-spoilers/620380/73 "2012-05-01T18:26:09Z")
> [@shy\_guy](#): > > Isn’t Don’s Heinz guy only the beans, vinegars, and sauces guy? SCDP doesn’t even have ketchup. Ketchup ought to count as a sauce, in 1966. It won’t be reclassified as a vegetable until the 80s. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-07-at-the-codfish-ball-open-spoilers/620380/74 "2012-05-01T19:42:59Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > I feel like a saw a commercial just like the one pitched maybe a year ago. I think it might have been for soup. Had a mom serving to her daughter, and then that daughter as an adult serving to her daughter, and so on. It wasn’t through the ages, just three or four generations. Yeah, I know what you mean. There is definitely a generation to generation commercial out there, although I don’t recall if it’s for soup or not. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-07-at-the-codfish-ball-open-spoilers/620380/75 "2012-05-01T19:46:06Z")
Well, who would have ever thought that “Soup is good food” would be a successful slogan? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-07-at-the-codfish-ball-open-spoilers/620380/76 "2012-05-01T20:18:21Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > In soap operas, the head writer has what they call a “bible” - it is a book that has all of the subplots and stories for years and years to come. It is a closely guarded secret book that few, if any, ever get to see - but it keeps all the storylines on track. > > I think the writers of Mad Men now have their “bible” in place - a grand plan and a vision of how and where this show is going to end. I am looking forward to watching things unfold. > [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > …Huh? Nearly all TV shows have their “bible.” They aren’t really big books of secrets. In fact they are required reading for new staff. Yeah, all series have a “bible” to guide new writers on the characters and their relationships. But these days a showrunner may also have ideas about future seasons that aren’t shared with anyone or with only a few intimates. Matthew Weiner has said that he knows how he wants the series to end in two more seasons. I’m sure the number of people who share that knowledge can be counted on the fingers of one hand, and that most of the writers haven’t been told. I said several seasons ago that even though the show is about ad people they keep telling us are brilliant, you’ll never see them creating brilliant advertising. It’s too hard. At best you’ll get ideas stolen from others. At least this Heinz pitch sounds like 60s advertising. Not only is 1966 just a few years after The Flintstones and The Jetsons, but this episode was almost contemporaneous with the debut of [It’s About Time](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_About_Time_%28TV_series%29), a horrible sitcom about astronauts meeting up with cavemen. I can understand Don not approving of the makeup, but why exactly did the boots also have to go? I know go-go boots had associations, but they made Sally’s outfit work. (If you want to play the 60s references game, watch [Kinky Boots](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0mTRiZGvvw), a 1964 novelty song by The Avengers’ Patrick Macnee and Honor Blackman. And check out the falling man at 1:12. Did the Mad Men title sequence steal it? Has the whole show over five seasons been working up to this? Problem is, I doubt anyone in America saw it in 1964.) ---
**Author:** ![SaharaTea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SaharaTea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaharaTea)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-07-at-the-codfish-ball-open-spoilers/620380/77 "2012-05-01T20:28:51Z")
> [@MaddyStrut](#): > > I wonder how the ad would have played to different demographic groups in the 60’s. Didn’t the client say earlier that he wanted something to appeal to the younger audience? If so, I don’t know that “generations coming together” and a sentimental look through history and the future (and turning into your mother :eek: ) would have worked for a 20 something in 1966. That was my thought too. The Heinz guy clearly said he wanted something to appeal to the younger generation. Peggy’s idea with the kids eating beans around a campfire was more in line with his wishes than Megan’s. I think the Heinz guy was just a chauvinist. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-07-at-the-codfish-ball-open-spoilers/620380/78 "2012-05-01T20:33:16Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I thought it was Juliette Binoche until I read this thread. There was definitely a resemblance. I also thought it might be the Bungalow Bunny Vivian Pressman who had the fling with the unprincipled medical student (the one who got Penny pregnant) in _Dirty Dancing_. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-07-at-the-codfish-ball-open-spoilers/620380/79 "2012-05-01T21:15:57Z")
> [@shy\_guy](#): > > I agree with Jophiel; _Roger_ probably wouldn’t be any more discrete; what does he care? And Megan’s mom was clearly in the mood to be adventurous. I suspect that Megan’s mother would in fact have been pleased to get caught (albeit not necessarily by Sally). It wouldn’t surprise me if she went and told her husband what she had done with Roger. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-07-at-the-codfish-ball-open-spoilers/620380/80 "2012-05-01T21:21:34Z")
You can’t trust IMDb all that much. They take forever to get the bulk of cast credits listed and even then they make mistakes all the time. And a show like _Mad Men_ where people regularly get credit but don’t appear muddies things even more. Throw in various Bobbie Drapers and it gets bad. (Didn’t there used to be a woman on the show with a first name of a month? April, May, June? Whatever happened to her?) The show’s credits say Julia Ormand, so that’s it. This show is so much better with Sally interacting with Don’s world. I thought Peggy broke up with Abe? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-07-at-the-codfish-ball-open-spoilers/620380.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-07-at-the-codfish-ball-open-spoilers/620380.md?page=5)