# Mad-Men: 5.09 "Dark Shadows" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 14, 2012, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-09-dark-shadows-open-spoilers/621829 "2012-05-14T01:34:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-09-dark-shadows-open-spoilers/621829/1 "2012-05-14T01:34:59Z")
[QUOTE=AMC] Don becomes competitive and Roger seeks new business. Sally faces a challenge. [/QUOTE] Looks like Betty will be involved in tonights episode. Ironically I just saw **Dark Shadows** this afternoon. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-09-dark-shadows-open-spoilers/621829/2 "2012-05-14T02:11:28Z")
Great Roger Sterling line of the night already: “How jewish are they? Fiddler On the Roof - audience or cast?” ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-09-dark-shadows-open-spoilers/621829/3 "2012-05-14T03:01:28Z")
“I feel bad for you.” “I don’t think about you at all.” ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-09-dark-shadows-open-spoilers/621829/4 "2012-05-14T03:09:20Z")
Sally stole the show. Love that girl. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-09-dark-shadows-open-spoilers/621829/5 "2012-05-14T07:43:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Great Roger Sterling line of the night already: “How jewish are they? Fiddler On the Roof - audience or cast?” Also loved “Get these to me by sunset Friday. See, I’ve been doing research.” And his response when Pete said he’d been on the phone to New York Times people for an hour: “You’re getting a paper route?” Was it my imagination or did Jane want Roger as much as he wanted her in the scene in her new apartment? I didn’t understand her anger/hurt/etc. the next day. (And I’m surprised the clients didn’t take a newspaper and swat their son for trying to ride her leg at the table; he was absolutely tacky in his obviousness.) > [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Sally stole the show. Love that girl. Love the actress; the character I wanted to slap a little. I know the name refers to the soap Megan’s friend was auditioning for, but I wonder if it’s supposed to portend the rest of the season. Can’t really see how anything ominous was set up. (I wonder if it was total coincidence it aired the weekend the movie opened.) So was a SnoBall an Icee/Slushy kind of drink? ---
**Author:** ![BluePear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@BluePear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BluePear)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-09-dark-shadows-open-spoilers/621829/6 "2012-05-14T07:44:38Z")
This was another good one. I found the activities around Ginsberg the most interesting. I wonder how this is going to unfold. He’s just butting heads with too many people. And it’s also interesting how disgruntled everyone is. Peggy, Kosgrove, Harry, I wonder who the first to leave will be. Or perhaps Ginsberg leaves first to a better job making the rest wonder about doing the same. It’s kind of painful watching the agency slowly die. How miserable is Beatty? She really does have nothing. ---
**Author:** ![BluePear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@BluePear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BluePear)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-09-dark-shadows-open-spoilers/621829/7 "2012-05-14T07:49:09Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Was it my imagination or did Jane want Roger as much as he wanted her in the scene in her new apartment? I didn’t understand her anger/hurt/etc. the next day. (And I’m surprised the clients didn’t take a newspaper and swat their son for trying to ride her leg at the table; he was absolutely tacky in his obviousness.) She very much did want Roger, but she wanted a fresh start from him. Deep down, it’s not that Jane wants to be away from Roger, she just wants him to want her. At dinner, she was just pleased to see his jealously when another man showed interest in her because it was an indication he still cared a little. But I totally understand her hurt the next day. Now her first real memory in her new apt is having sex with her soon to be ex-husband. ---
**Author:** ![Nunzio\_Tavulari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Nunzio\_Tavulari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nunzio_Tavulari)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-09-dark-shadows-open-spoilers/621829/8 "2012-05-14T09:26:25Z")
I think the episode title was appropriate because the show is turning into a goddamn soap opera. Sure, there was always drama, but there was also more light humor and a presentation of salesmanship and the psychology of advertising. I’d like to get back to that more often instead of the back-stabbing and other dark themes we’ve had this season. The girl who plays Sally is exceptional. Her abilities remind me of the daughter in Lie To Me (who coincidentally had a significant part in the Rolling Stones episode). And for the record, I saw one episode of West Wing in my life. It centered around the kidnapping of the president’s daughter (Elisabeth Moss). I looked at her and said “damn, that girl is going places”. So I’m fully qualified to judge. I thought January Jones’ performance was very good in this episode and I kind of think ugly Betty is more attractive than skinny Betty. I think my objection to her in the past was a perception that she couldn’t believably portray anger. Now that she’s no longer the suffering wife I’ve come to appreciate her more. Still the worst actor on the show unless you count Glenn. He’s so bad that it’s good. As I said in last week’s thread, the Ginsberg storyline is terrific. It’s my favorite part of this season. He and Campbell are the ying/yang of the series. I enjoyed the fur coat scene very much. I’ll be in my bunk. ---
**Author:** ![Nunzio\_Tavulari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Nunzio\_Tavulari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nunzio_Tavulari)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-09-dark-shadows-open-spoilers/621829/9 "2012-05-14T09:39:51Z")
November 24 1966 is considered to be the smoggiest day in NYC’s history. It is blamed for 169 deaths. ---
**Author:** ![jordanr2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/838e76/32.png) [@jordanr2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jordanr2)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-09-dark-shadows-open-spoilers/621829/10 "2012-05-14T11:56:10Z")
So Betty’s obviously miserable, for various good reasons - but still, playing the Anna Draper card? Ouch. A nice parallel in the episode between dark pasts (Don’s history with Anna and Roger’s with Jane) casting shadows on the present. ---
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-09-dark-shadows-open-spoilers/621829/11 "2012-05-14T12:59:43Z")
I thought the entire scene between Ginsberg and Roger was hilarious. Roger at his best. And at the end, the Francis Thanksgiving dinner- Betty: “I’m thankful that I have everything I could want…” (aww, that’s sweet) “and nobody has anything better” (WTF? You take enjoyment from the fact that you have more than everyone else?) And forgive me if I’m out of touch with this, but when dieting, is it really a victory that you may have lost .5 lb if you’re weighing yourself fully clothed? Couldn’t there be a .5 lb difference in the material of your outfit, say wool to cotton, or thereabouts? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-09-dark-shadows-open-spoilers/621829/12 "2012-05-14T13:00:30Z")
> [@BluePear](#): > > How miserable is Beatty? She really does have nothing. Just a husband who loves her, a nice home and three healthy children. She has plenty, she just finds reasons to be miserable regardless. Also, “Oh hi, Rory side-boob! How much double-sided tape is in that mink coat, anyway?” ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-09-dark-shadows-open-spoilers/621829/13 "2012-05-14T13:05:41Z")
So if Betty is ‘skinny’, does being fat make her ‘ugly’?? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-09-dark-shadows-open-spoilers/621829/14 "2012-05-14T13:18:47Z")
> [@corkboard](#): > > I thought the entire scene between Ginsberg and Roger was hilarious. Roger at his best. > > And at the end, the Francis Thanksgiving dinner- > Betty: “I’m thankful that I have everything I could want…” (aww, that’s sweet) “and nobody has anything better” (WTF? You take enjoyment from the fact that you have more than everyone else?) > > And forgive me if I’m out of touch with this, but when dieting, is it really a victory that you may have lost .5 lb if you’re weighing yourself fully clothed? Couldn’t there be a .5 lb difference in the material of your outfit, say wool to cotton, or thereabouts? You gotta assume they wear similar outfits each week to take into account for that. That’s what most people I know who do WW do. I agree with the WTF moment with Betty, too. So nice, until it wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-09-dark-shadows-open-spoilers/621829/15 "2012-05-14T13:31:31Z")
Has Weight Watchers become Ironically Hip now? I am totally dressing up like Betty Francis for my next meeting. Love Roger: “_Fiddler on the Roof_–cast, or audience?” and “They’ve been selling to Jews, and now they want to sell to normal people, too.” ---
**Author:** ![Prelude\_to\_Fascination](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Prelude\_to\_Fascination](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prelude_to_Fascination)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-09-dark-shadows-open-spoilers/621829/16 "2012-05-14T13:46:39Z")
I did a double take when Megan mentioned Burke Devlin, because I’ve been watching Dark Shadows from the first episode, when Burke Devlin came back to Collinsport. Right now, I’m up to January 1967, and there’s no cook involved (unless you count Maggie Evans, but she’s been there nearly from the first). Anyway, I echo the sentiments about Roger’s lines. Betty gave me a WTF moment too, there at the end. I laughed though seeing her eat one brussel sprout, etc. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-09-dark-shadows-open-spoilers/621829/17 "2012-05-14T13:54:31Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I know the name refers to the soap Megan’s friend was auditioning for, but I wonder if it’s supposed to portend the rest of the season. Can’t really see how anything ominous was set up. (I wonder if it was total coincidence it aired the weekend the movie opened.) The episodes was written a long time ago and Weiner originally had hoped for a Fall 2011 start to the season, so unless they re-shot the scene to include the Dark Shadows reference, I think it was a coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-09-dark-shadows-open-spoilers/621829/18 "2012-05-14T14:22:45Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Also, “Oh hi, Rory side-boob! How much double-sided tape is in that mink coat, anyway?” Omigod, that was great. > [@Prelude\_to\_Fascination](#): > > Anyway, I echo the sentiments about Roger’s lines. Betty gave me a WTF moment too, there at the end. I laughed though seeing her eat one brussel sprout, etc. And it looked like that one brussels sprout was giving her an orgasm. I didn’t know that they could be _that_ good. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-09-dark-shadows-open-spoilers/621829/19 "2012-05-14T14:33:13Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > And it looked like that one brussels sprout was giving her an orgasm. I didn’t know that they could be _that_ good. She was trying REALLY hard to enjoy her sad little brussels sprout… but not really succeeding. That was actually a great bit of acting by January Jones. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-09-dark-shadows-open-spoilers/621829/20 "2012-05-14T14:36:41Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > [Re Weight Watchers] You gotta assume they wear similar outfits each week to take into account for that. That’s what most people I know who do WW do. Not just \*similar \*outfits, but THE SAME outfit. 🆒 When I went in the summer, every week it was a tissue-thin sleeveless top and the lightest possible cotton drawstring pants. Every week. One time, before I knew the ropes, I mistakenly went in a heavy sweater, denim skirt, and BOOTS. :eek: Never did that again. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-09-dark-shadows-open-spoilers/621829.md?page=2)