# Mad Men: 5.10 "Christmas Waltz" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 21, 2012, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-10-christmas-waltz-open-spoilers/622570 "2012-05-21T01:26:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-10-christmas-waltz-open-spoilers/622570/61 "2012-05-22T01:59:54Z")
Funny, I read his expression of bemused acceptance. He messed up significantly, she went over the top. But then she made some fair points and enacted a “punishment” that fit the crime (missed dinner with no word? You’ll eat with me now), but was rediculous because she threw her dinner away, so she didn’t have dinner! She knew she was rediculous, he knew he was wrong and they got over it. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-10-christmas-waltz-open-spoilers/622570/62 "2012-05-22T02:08:30Z")
Yeah getting mad at Don Draper for coming home drunk, late, and without calling is like getting mad at Roger Sterling for wearing a vest. ---
**Author:** ![phreesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@phreesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phreesh)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-10-christmas-waltz-open-spoilers/622570/63 "2012-05-22T02:13:37Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > No, she was too inept for blackmail. She said that she traded herself to get Harry to manipulate Paul into staying in the cult. But even Harry pointed out that she did it backwards by first giving it away and then negotiating. I’m also confused by this. Coming out of that scene, has she won (in her head)? In the end, he did his own thing. Kind of a weird sequence. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-10-christmas-waltz-open-spoilers/622570/64 "2012-05-22T02:14:04Z")
> [@Don\_Draper](#): > > Megan might be justified to be angry, even yell “Where the hell were you? Why didn’t you call?” when he walked in the door. > > Throwing a plate of food across the room, slamming another plate of food in front of Don and demanding he eat it while she sits there in stony silence, glaring icily out the window (while the smashed plate of food sits on the floor) qualifies as a tantrum. Especially when it’s the first time he’s done that to her. > > And besides, Megan was Don’s secretary for a year (and an office receptionist for longer) and certainly knows that Don is quite often pulling very late nights, or all-nighters, often on the spur of the moment, and rushing out at the drop of the hat to glad-handle clients. Running out for cocktails on the spur of the moment with the CEO of Heinz Baked Beans (for example) is just a part of his job. 100 % agreed. If that wasn’t a tantrum, I don’t know what is. Of course, I don’t like her anyway (neither the character nor the actress) so I may be biased. As was stated by others, I really didn’t connect with anything that occured in this episode. What was the point of the whole Hare Krishna thing? It was bizarro, like the LSD episode, but that at least led to Roger and whatshername breaking up. Why bring an old character in for one episode, much less a new one (and I thought she resembled Juliette Lewis also) if the story isn’t going anywhere?And I know I’m in the minority but I didn’t much care for the Joan/Don scene. Not that the actors weren’t fabulous - holy cow could those two set the world on fire- but it seemed so uncharacterisctic. Don’t get me wrong; the worst episode of Mad Men is better than the best episode of just about anything on TV today, but I had to give last night’s installment a solid “meh”. ---
**Author:** ![lisacurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/41988e/32.png) [@lisacurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisacurl)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-10-christmas-waltz-open-spoilers/622570/65 "2012-05-22T02:27:28Z")
I noticed an interesting hint of where the Lane storyline might be going when he told his wife the reason why SCDP has another shot at landing the Jaguar account. His buddy Mr. Chewing-Gum-on-His-Pubis, from the whorehouse episode, got fired from Jaguar and lost his visa. Lane’s wife says something like, “Oh, that’s why they returned to England so quickly.” If Lane gets fired (or loses his partnership or whatever) for embezzlement, he’d have to go back to England and face jail time for his unpaid taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-10-christmas-waltz-open-spoilers/622570/66 "2012-05-22T02:53:21Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > As was stated by others, I really didn’t connect with anything that occured in this episode. What was the point of the whole Hare Krishna thing? I looked it up and the guy they kept mentioning really did start the Krishna church in New York City in 1966. Maybe it was a gift to calendar watchers. I’m beginning to hate these made-for-tv timely sequences, especially after the NAACP demonstration that spawned Dawn and led nowhere, the awful Howard Johnson fiasco, and Roger’s out-of-character LSD trip. It happens often but this show especially seemed like the various scenes were written by different people and awkwardly spliced in. But I’m biased too. Throwing something to show that the character really is ooh, so mad, is one of the worst overused tropes on television. You especially don’t throw messy, sticky, gummy stuff that you’ll have to clean up yourself. So the Megan portion bothered me as well. When are we getting back to a good Peggy episode? ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-10-christmas-waltz-open-spoilers/622570/67 "2012-05-22T02:54:44Z")
> [@lisacurl](#): > > I noticed an interesting hint of where the Lane storyline might be going when he told his wife the reason why SCDP has another shot at landing the Jaguar account. His buddy Mr. Chewing-Gum-on-His-Pubis, from the whorehouse episode, got fired from Jaguar and lost his visa. Lane’s wife says something like, “Oh, that’s why they returned to England so quickly.” If Lane gets fired (or loses his partnership or whatever) for embezzlement, he’d have to go back to England and face jail time for his unpaid taxes. Oh so you think, until Lane discovers Pete Campbell’s office suicide, switches their Curricula Vitae, and assumes his identity. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-10-christmas-waltz-open-spoilers/622570/68 "2012-05-22T02:55:42Z")
I actually thought it was a funny impression of Swami Prabhupada. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-10-christmas-waltz-open-spoilers/622570/69 "2012-05-22T05:06:35Z")
Two women throwing tantrums, two divergent audience reactions. In some ways Megan’s reaction is healthy, she gets it out if her system, unlike the former Mrs. Draper who kept out all bottled up inside. Note also that Megan basically was fine after she had her say, even asking Don if he wanted some cheese. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-10-christmas-waltz-open-spoilers/622570/70 "2012-05-22T07:16:30Z")
Loved Don and Joan. Lane’s embezzlement is a bit too soap-operaish, and I didn’t like the Mata Hari Krishna subplot. Quibble department. I was waiting for them to put in a Star Trek reference, but they did it in a ham-handed way. As of December 8, 1966 ST had shown up to “Conscience of the King” and had shown none of the socially conscious episodes yet - especially considering when he must have started to write the script. “A Taste of Armageddon” with the peaceful but deadly war might qualify, but the first real example is “A Private Little War” in February 1968. I’m not sure the presence of Uhura on the bridge, significant as it was, would have inspired such a 3rd season script. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-10-christmas-waltz-open-spoilers/622570/71 "2012-05-22T07:33:53Z")
I have to hand it to Kinsey, though - writing Trek fanfic in 1966? That’s what I call being ahead of the geek curve. ---
**Author:** ![BluePear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@BluePear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BluePear)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-10-christmas-waltz-open-spoilers/622570/72 "2012-05-22T07:48:05Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Not sure I understood the Hare Krishna subplot. Was she trying to blackmail him after the sex? There was no proof that anything happened, so she has no leverage. What was the point of having sex with him? I think she might end up pregnant. The references Harry had to seeing his daughter’s face while chanting, having 2 children and one on the way, perhaps they were clues. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-10-christmas-waltz-open-spoilers/622570/73 "2012-05-22T08:15:17Z")
She’s too much of a professional for that to happen. Remember, she was a hooker before she was a Hare Krishna, and she still has a hooker mentality. Just as Kinsey in a shaved head and robes is still the same deluded, insecure Kinsey. It’s one of the themes of the show - the cultural markers may change, but the people don’t. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-10-christmas-waltz-open-spoilers/622570/74 "2012-05-22T13:02:42Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > It’s one of the themes of the show - the cultural markers may change, but the people don’t. Excellent point! That really sums it up well. You could expand this to include the subtext that advertising methods and content change, but its effectiveness as psychological tool in our commercialized world doesn’t. Responding to an earlier point – I, too, thought Megan’s reaction to Don’s pecadillo (of not calling to say he’d be late) was over the top. I hate it when characters throw things like that. In that moment, she lost her “just the sort of ‘fighter’ Don needs to keep him straight” status for me. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-10-christmas-waltz-open-spoilers/622570/75 "2012-05-22T13:34:16Z")
> [@Don\_Draper](#): > > Megan might be justified to be angry, even yell “Where the hell were you? Why didn’t you call?” when he walked in the door. > > Throwing a plate of food across the room, slamming another plate of food in front of Don and demanding he eat it while she sits there in stony silence, glaring icily out the window (while the smashed plate of food sits on the floor) qualifies as a tantrum. Especially when it’s the first time he’s done that to her. > > And besides, Megan was Don’s secretary for a year (and an office receptionist for longer) and certainly knows that Don is quite often pulling very late nights, or all-nighters, often on the spur of the moment, and rushing out at the drop of the hat to glad-handle clients. Running out for cocktails on the spur of the moment with the CEO of Heinz Baked Beans (for example) is just a part of his job. Read the earlier posts that better explained why Meagan was pissed. It wasn’t because he came home late and drunk, but because he’s slacking at the job he used to love. He needed a kick in the pants, and it seemed to work. Now, you could argue that it was time well spent to get Joan’s groove back, but still, it wasn’t just this one event that had her pissed-- it was the cumulation of how Don had been slacking for some time. And she isn’t the only one noticing it. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-10-christmas-waltz-open-spoilers/622570/76 "2012-05-22T13:57:38Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Quibble department. I was waiting for them to put in a Star Trek reference, but they did it in a ham-handed way. As of December 8, 1966 ST had shown up to “Conscience of the King” and had shown none of the socially conscious episodes yet - especially considering when he must have started to write the script. Kinsey was all about showing how socially conscious he was at SC so I could see him writing a terrible heavy-handed allegory even if it wasn’t yet SOP for Star Trek. It’s not as though Star Trek pioneered the use of terrible allegories in (science fiction) literature. Peggy: “I don’t know… will I catch _the Negron Complex_?” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-10-christmas-waltz-open-spoilers/622570/77 "2012-05-22T14:11:39Z")
Yeah, remember, Kinsey was a fan of _The Twilight Zone_, which also combined speculative fiction and allegory. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-10-christmas-waltz-open-spoilers/622570/78 "2012-05-22T14:26:48Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Loved Don and Joan. Lane’s embezzlement is a bit too soap-operaish, and I didn’t like the Mata Hari Krishna subplot. > > Quibble department. I was waiting for them to put in a Star Trek reference, but they did it in a ham-handed way. As of December 8, 1966 ST had shown up to “Conscience of the King” and had shown none of the socially conscious episodes yet - especially considering when he must have started to write the script. “A Taste of Armageddon” with the peaceful but deadly war might qualify, but the first real example is “A Private Little War” in February 1968. I’m not sure the presence of Uhura on the bridge, significant as it was, would have inspired such a 3rd season script. Trivia aside - I recall DeForest Kellley stating in an interview (sorry, no cite) once that there _had_ been a script in the works in which Bones & Uhura went on an away mission and ended up stranded on a planet where the dominant skin color was black, and Bones (a Southern man) would have to pass himself off as Uhura’s slave. So, Harry was probably speaking more truthfully than he realized when he fed Kinsey his line about “a script being written.” ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-10-christmas-waltz-open-spoilers/622570/79 "2012-05-22T14:33:20Z")
> [@Don\_Draper](#): > > Trivia aside - I recall DeForest Kellley stating in an interview (sorry, no cite) once that there _had_ been a script in the works in which Bones & Uhura went on an away mission and ended up stranded on a planet where the dominant skin color was black, and Bones (a Southern man) would have to pass himself off as Uhura’s slave. So, Harry was probably speaking more truthfully than he realized when he fed Kinsey his line about “a script being written.” I was just coming in to ask if anybody Trekkier than me remembered this. I think it’s mentioned in one of David Gerrold’s behind-the-scenes Trek books, which I read years ago. I thought of it the moment I heard the story idea. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-10-christmas-waltz-open-spoilers/622570/80 "2012-05-22T14:34:18Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > She’s too much of a professional for that to happen. Remember, she was a hooker before she was a Hare Krishna, and she still has a hooker mentality. Just as Kinsey in a shaved head and robes is still the same deluded, insecure Kinsey. It’s one of the themes of the show - the cultural markers may change, but the people don’t. She irritated me - look at “reformed whore” Dora May Dinglehopper from Buttsville, Ohio - calling herself Lakshmi!! - latching on to the Hare Krishnas. She may or may not be a true believer, but her actions show how she is in it for gain, not blind worship. She isn’t a saved devotee of the Krishnas, she’s an enforcer, or trying to be. She is trying to keep Kinsey in the cult because he’s their best recruiter, so she falls back on her whore-skills to try to make that happen. Dope. I hope hope hope he takes the money and leaves for California. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-10-christmas-waltz-open-spoilers/622570.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-10-christmas-waltz-open-spoilers/622570.md?page=5)