# Mad-Men: 5.11 "The Other Woman" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 28, 2012, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-11-the-other-woman-open-spoilers/623296 "2012-05-28T00:21:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![MickNickMaggies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/59ef9b/32.png) [@MickNickMaggies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MickNickMaggies)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-11-the-other-woman-open-spoilers/623296/181 "2012-05-31T11:04:02Z")
> [@Rhiannon8404](#): > > I agree about Megan. I don’t think she thinks she’s “all that”. I think she just really wants to have given it her best shot. I actually feel awful for Megan. Her father has come along and told her that she was whoring herself out to have married into her copywriting post. That may well be. Then she’s a bourgeois whore, working for the Man. But now she’s faced with the fact that she seems to have to whore herself out to follow her dream. Note her friend pawing and clawing her way across the Jaguar table with the leering men. There’s your bohemian whore, working for her Dream. And we’ve seen how the latter road can finish with poor Midge. I love the callback to the fact that no one can tell Peggy that she’snot going to Paris. Duck tried it with his ‘you can work on Hermes! you can just never meet the client’ and lost her. ---
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-11-the-other-woman-open-spoilers/623296/182 "2012-05-31T13:44:27Z")
So, did Megan bring her actress friend with her to the offices to “occupy” the creative team while she took Don to his office for a quickie? Her friend’s lucky she left with her virtue intact (assuming she did). ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-11-the-other-woman-open-spoilers/623296/183 "2012-05-31T14:20:17Z")
When Megan’s friend was prancing on the table, pretending to be a jaguar, I thought that perhaps this was the direction that Don would take in the advertising, personifying the jaguar. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-11-the-other-woman-open-spoilers/623296/184 "2012-05-31T15:18:28Z")
I’m late to the discussion, but I thought the episode was amazing. I don’t have anything to say about Joan’s storyline, because it’s hard to decide what I think and impossible to predict how it will play out. But I’m happy that Peggy left SCDP. It’s true that Ted Chaough does partly want Peggy because he’s Don’s rival. But I think and hope that he also realizes how talented she is. And I don’t remember if we’ve been told or shown about how successful CGC is, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re doing as well as SCDP, and maybe being even more successful. The Tom and Lorenzo Mad Men style post pointed out how Chaough was dressed fairly hip for the meeting with Peggy, as opposed to how Don still always wears the business man suits and doesn’t look like he belongs with the creatives. I don’t know if SCDP is going to fall apart, but it’s definitely to Peggy’s advantage to leave the company and Don behind. ---
**Author:** ![LaurenIpsum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@LaurenIpsum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LaurenIpsum)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-11-the-other-woman-open-spoilers/623296/185 "2012-05-31T15:29:01Z")
I have to say, I almost thought something was going to try and whore out Megan’s friend. Earlier, Ken had said to the Jaguar guy, “So you like redheads? I know a few…” as if to try and steer him away from Joan and to a different redhead. Then we see that Megan’s friend has red hair. But it was probably just a coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![kath94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/67e7ee/32.png) [@kath94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kath94)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-11-the-other-woman-open-spoilers/623296/186 "2012-05-31T17:01:31Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Whatever. Like I said, I \*just \*watched it. You’re free to remember it however you like. > > Even if Joan had come right out and said “You’re boss is going to expect to fuck you. I’d suggest going along if you like working here.” there would be the small matter of Joan not being in a position to stop said boss from expecting to get laid or firing anyone who refused. She wasn’t “pimping” the secretarial pool, she wasn’t really the boss. > > Again, if you think what Joan said to Peggy is the equivalent of being literally pimped by the partners, you are simply wrong. Joan was trying to protect “her girls.” She doesn’t want to get a secretary trained just right only to have her leave because she was having a baby out of wedlock. > [@Acsenray](#): > > It’s very clear that Joan’s assumption was that the goal of a girl like Peggy was to find a husband in the office and to move out to “the country” and in the meantime have affairs with rich, handsome men. She wasn’t telling Peggy she was expected to sleep with her superiors in order to keep her job. She simply assumed that Peggy would probably want to at some point, because that’s what everyone else like her wanted. In that context, she was teaching Peggy to take precautions not to get pregnant. Right. Joan wanted Peggy prepared. She did not expect or require anything more of her. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-11-the-other-woman-open-spoilers/623296/187 "2012-05-31T17:04:14Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m a bit contrary on this episode. During the first half, I was thinking it was not one of the better episodes. A bit slow, and a bit of a stretch. But it seemed to pick up nicely in the 2nd half. I’m at a loss as to how they are going to keep the Peggy storyline going, as it might sort of fracture the plot structure. Of course, this is chicken feed compared to _Game of Thrones_… Next season, Peggy will return to SCDP…_with dragons_! ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-11-the-other-woman-open-spoilers/623296/188 "2012-05-31T17:30:19Z")
Does anyone at SCDP know that Peggy had Pete’s baby? Don knows she had a baby, but did he know whose? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-11-the-other-woman-open-spoilers/623296/189 "2012-05-31T17:34:36Z")
The only one who knows _for sure_ is Pete. Because she told him. (Don knew she had a baby & convinced her to get out of the psych ward & get back to work. But we never heard her tell him the father’s name.) ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-11-the-other-woman-open-spoilers/623296/190 "2012-05-31T17:35:19Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Next season, Peggy will return to SCDP…_with dragons_! Great, now I know there are dragons in Game of Thrones. Thanks a lot! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-11-the-other-woman-open-spoilers/623296/191 "2012-05-31T17:42:38Z")
While I think some of you have a far too Pollyanna view of Joan from the first episode or two, it’s not a point I’m invested in enough to keep arguing. I wonder how long Peggy will work with Chaough before filling him in on Honda 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-11-the-other-woman-open-spoilers/623296/192 "2012-06-01T01:48:49Z")
> [@kath94](#): > > Joan was trying to protect “her girls.” She doesn’t want to get a secretary trained just right only to have her leave because she was having a baby out of wedlock. Even more, this serves to illustration Joan’s evolution throughout the show. In the beginning, Joan is the perfect office manager, giving “her” girls the advice and “on-the-job mentoring” that they won’t get out of any employment manual or their mothers. But she assumes (mostly correctly) that the secretaries want the same things out of life and work that she wants, to wit, a good time, a husband, and a house in the suburbs, all in the appropriate order without any hiccups. This is why she is so perplexed that Peggy is doing nothing to attract a man and is willing to work evenings for free as a junior copywriter. However, her perspective changes when she is given the “extra” job of reading scripts for Harry Crane. She suddenly discovers that she can do more than boss around younger women (who also mock her age) and be admired for her figure. When that job is taken away from her, and given to some boob who clearly doesn’t know or care about making the kind of connections between drama and marketing that are natural to her. Ever since then, she has demonstrated subtle balking at her position, exacerbated by her disintegrating marriage. Joan might chastise one of her girls for making an error, but she has consistently demonstrated protectiveness and has never betrayed one for her own self-interest the way the all of the partners (save for Don) did either in action or inaction. The duplicated scene was a framing device that is intended to emphasize the inner conflict that Joan has experienced. In the first scene, she seems to be assuring Don that she is not being coerced and sleeping with the sleezebag out of her own conscious self-interest. When the scene is played again and we understand that she has already done the deed, we realize that part of the reason that Joan slept with the guy was out of spite for the partners, almost as if being dared, and if Don had spoken to her before she likely would have not gone through with it. The look of barely restrained revulsion on Joan’s face when she removes her dress (facing away from Herb) is a great scene, and intercut with Don pitching Jaguar (which is supposed to be describing a mistress, but is actually the tenuous success of SCDP and its relationship to its clients) is one of the best scenes since the pitch in “The Wheel”. This is also an evolution of Draper, who had initially embraced the mistress idea, and then rejected it when Megan clearly found it revolting, only to accept it again when Ginsberg pitched it (again, as a veiled metareference to SCDP’s relationship to Jaguar). Don’s whole speach to Peggy regarding the “sex sells” approach of creative (“The people who think that think that monkeys can do this job,”) is lost when the “sex” (Jaguar) is being sold to him. And Jaguar is going to end up being a gigantic charlie-fox for SCDP. Not only are they going to be an overbearing, demanding client to shame Lucky Strike, they’re also going to be disruptive and mercurial. Lane is right to be concerned about their affect on the business; everyone else assumes that “a car” is necessary for SCDP’s reputation regardless of the cost to the firm. > [@Jophiel](#): > > I wonder how long Peggy will work with Chaough before filling him in on Honda 😃 Ted Chaough already knows what happened at Honda. Although it is tempting to think of him as a second-rater, especially with his apparently one-sided competition with Draper, he’s clearly very smart and capable, and didn’t get this far riding on someone else’s coat tails. His vision for the Honda commercial was actually quite good, and his pitch to Peggy in this episode is straight Draper. Frankly, I hope this is the last series for the show, because it has been threatening to veer off into _Carnal Knowledge_ territory for a while now, and I really don’t want to see the show depicted in the 'Seventies. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-11-the-other-woman-open-spoilers/623296/193 "2012-06-01T02:15:16Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > Great, now I know there are dragons in Game of Thrones. Thanks a lot! > 😃 Actually, I think it’s a _Breaking Bad_ spoiler. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-11-the-other-woman-open-spoilers/623296/194 "2012-06-01T03:02:57Z")
Stranger, thats a fantastic analysis. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Frankly, I hope this is the last series for the show, because it has been threatening to veer off into _Carnal Knowledge_ territory for a while now, and I really don’t want to see the show depicted in the 'Seventies. There is definitely going to be one more season and maybe one more after that ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-11-the-other-woman-open-spoilers/623296/195 "2012-06-01T03:33:28Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > When Megan’s friend was prancing on the table, pretending to be a jaguar, I thought that perhaps this was the direction that Don would take in the advertising, personifying the jaguar. I thought she was trying to plant an idea for a TV commercial starting herself in their heads. > [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > The only one who knows _for sure_ is Pete. Because she told him. > > (Don knew she had a baby & convinced her to get out of the psych ward & get back to work. But we never heard her tell him the father’s name.) There were rumours circulating in season 2 that she’d gone away to have Don’s love child, ironically Pete was the biggest fan of the alternative “fat farm” theory. IIRC the official explanation for Peggy’s absence was that she was in a sanitarium recovering from TB. Peggy’s mother is absolutely convinced that Don seduced her and got her pregnant. > [@LaurenIpsum](#): > > I have to say, I almost thought something was going to try and whore out Megan’s friend. Earlier, Ken had said to the Jaguar guy, “So you like redheads? I know a few…” as if to try and steer him away from Joan and to a different redhead. Then we see that Megan’s friend has red hair. But it was probably just a coincidence. I’m certain it was a coincidence. For all we know Ken’s never met Megan’s friend. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-11-the-other-woman-open-spoilers/623296/196 "2012-06-01T05:40:34Z")
My wife and I were wondering if Don has really considered the ramifications of Megan getting a role on Broadway. Eight shows a week, every night except Monday, matinees on Wednesday and Saturday. The only time they’re going to see each other is Saturday mornings, Sunday during the day, and Monday nights. And she’ll probably be coming home at 1 or 2 a.m. most nights. He may want to be supportive of Megan in theory, but I don’t think Don would put up with that for long. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-11-the-other-woman-open-spoilers/623296/197 "2012-06-01T16:20:59Z")
The real and modern day Jaguar company has [expressed disapproval](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/30/mad-men-jaguar-response_n_1556053.html), albeit with surprising restraint and aplomb. (On the whole they’re less p.o.d. than House Romney was when their patriarch was mentioned in a far less damning sort of way.) ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-11-the-other-woman-open-spoilers/623296/198 "2012-06-01T19:53:03Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > My wife and I were wondering if Don has really considered the ramifications of Megan getting a role on Broadway. Eight shows a week, every night except Monday, matinees on Wednesday and Saturday. The only time they’re going to see each other is Saturday mornings, Sunday during the day, and Monday nights. And she’ll probably be coming home at 1 or 2 a.m. most nights. > > He may want to be supportive of Megan in theory, but I don’t think Don would put up with that for long. First, we need to see whether Megan is really good enough to get a role on Broadway. We don’t know a thing about her previous experience. If she does get a role, will she stay with Don? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-11-the-other-woman-open-spoilers/623296/199 "2012-06-01T20:15:59Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > If she does get a role, will she stay with Don? What makes you think she wouldn’t? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-11-the-other-woman-open-spoilers/623296/200 "2012-06-01T21:32:05Z")
> [@LaurenIpsum](#): > > I have to say, I almost thought something was going to try and whore out Megan’s friend. Earlier, Ken had said to the Jaguar guy, “So you like redheads? I know a few…” as if to try and steer him away from Joan and to a different redhead. Then we see that Megan’s friend has red hair. But it was probably just a coincidence. He was definitely trying to steer the guy away from Joan, but he was thinking towards an \*actual \*whore. He knows a few. I don’t know whether or not he knows Megan’s friend, but even if he does I doubt she’d have been the first redhead to pop into his mind when thinking of someone to “entertain” his most important prospective client. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-11-the-other-woman-open-spoilers/623296.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-11-the-other-woman-open-spoilers/623296.md?page=11)