# Mad-Men: 5.13 "Phantom" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 11, 2012, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-13-phantom-open-spoilers/624774 "2012-06-11T01:15:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-13-phantom-open-spoilers/624774/101 "2012-06-12T16:14:07Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Yeah, Don lost respect for Meagan and literally turned his back on her. > [@Enderw24](#): > > I see Megan as spoiled, petulant and immature. But, let’s look at it from her perspective. I’m going to disagree with the crowd on Don and Megan. Don never previously respected her attempt to launch an acting career, but by season’s end he has begun to do so. Watching the screen test crystallized that for him, and he decided to help her. He doesn’t disrespect using connections and working in advertising; that’s his whole life. I think that’s precisely what he _does_ respect; it shows him that Megan’s treating this as a _career_, and not just an artistic lark. > [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Megan looked prettier in the black and white screen test than she does in color. That comes with being French. > [@shy\_guy](#): > > But Trudy does have an _extremely specific_ idea of what her life is supposed to look like, and she isn’t about to let anything get in the way of that. I think she’s willing to gloss over some infidelity by Pete as long as she gets her pool, to put it another way. Trudy is completely self-absorbed. Which, admittedly, may be the only way to get by when you’re married to someone completely uncommunicative. She’s concerned by Pete’s injuries and unhappiness basically because it makes him clash with the decor. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-13-phantom-open-spoilers/624774/102 "2012-06-12T16:19:24Z")
Trudy’s stupid like a fox. She’s managed to get everything she’s wanted: from her first newly-wed luxury apartment in city to her family home in the suburbs, soon to be complete with pool. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-13-phantom-open-spoilers/624774/103 "2012-06-12T16:35:48Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > I had thought the firm was about to go belly up, and suddenly it’s a success and expanding. Too much of a fairy tale. They ended last year in trouble because of Lucky Strikes leaving (which was most of their billing). They fired about a third of the staff, picked up a bunch of smaller jobs and then Mohawk to get themselves stabilized. No one was seriously shocked when Lane said they could afford bonuses but they wouldn’t have been if he said they couldn’t… they were in that area between “just barely making it” and “starting to get ahead”. Jaguar (and Mohawk ending the strike) pushed them firmly into “Getting ahead”. I’m a little surprised no mention was made of Dow. Come to think of it, we never saw Ken for the finale. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-13-phantom-open-spoilers/624774/104 "2012-06-12T17:25:53Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > MM is famous for its subtle, well-framed shots. But the 5 partners in the new space shot is far from subtle. Definitely goes against the previous appearance of the show. I hate it. Harsh. It’ll make excellent DVD box art. I’m guessing either the cover or more likely the inside mural behind the discs. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-13-phantom-open-spoilers/624774/105 "2012-06-12T17:35:41Z")
I agree that Trudy is more self absorbed, or at least highly spoiled, than stupid. She managed to get Don Draper to come to her party- that was unheard of and showed not just some scheming but some pretty open scheming hidden behind a cute smile (and behind Annie’s Boobs). I think one reason this season worked much better than last season was the downgrading of Betty to a secondary character. She has more screentime than Trudy, but not much more. Frankly I hope she never has another major arc; January Jones just can’t handle it. Now that office space isn’t a problem, I predict Lane’s office will always go to the newest guy with an office worthy job. Or perhaps it will be the official “bad things happen in there” office. Though I can also see Ginsburg taking it- I don’t think it would bother him. Apparently in real life advertising people in the '50s/'60s (and to a lesser degree now, but particularly then) were notorious job hoppers; it was how you got raises: You do a good job at Firm A and get paid $12K, you go to Firm B when they offer you $14 K, two years later you leave them for Firm C and $16K, two years later you’re back at Firm A for $20K. It’s very easy and believable for Peggy to come back, but I wonder what the takeaway will be from her time at Chaough. I wonder if Mrs. Price will sue the company. It’s possible she’s somehow forbidden to under the incorporation. I did like that as cold as she was to Don she kept the check (“but I took the money, I’m not crazy!”). ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-13-phantom-open-spoilers/624774/106 "2012-06-12T17:37:27Z")
I don’t think I got a really good sense of how things are going for Peggy at the new firm. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-13-phantom-open-spoilers/624774/107 "2012-06-12T18:06:39Z")
I got the sense (based on two minutes of TV time) that she’s getting along okay. Probably still feels like a fish out of water between the new co-workers and being a woman in her position but getting along. Although dumping all the research on her and saying “Get it done” seemed a little abrupt, for $130,000 in today’s cash, I’m guessing they expect quite a bit out of her. She’s stepped out of Don’s shadow into the big leagues and now she needs to roll with it. But it looked like she was doing just that. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-13-phantom-open-spoilers/624774/108 "2012-06-12T18:20:39Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I don’t see where you’re getting the impression of her being overwhelmed from, though admittedly this episode did not have my entire attention. If you refer to her reticence with Harry in the elevator, I ascribe that to her needing to keep the expansion under wraps until the partners are ready to announce it. She is management now; he is an employee. She behaved appropriately. I think the shot of her looking at Lane’s empty chair at the meeting was the key to us seeing her realizing that with Lane gone–SHE is the one who is the one who has to worry about HOW this all gets paid for. Draper is Creative and everyone is accounts–she’s Finances. > [@Acsenray](#): > > I don’t think I got a really good sense of how things are going for Peggy at the new firm. I didn’t think she is actually happy there. I got the impression it was “same shit, different office” but without the pull of the relationship with Don. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-13-phantom-open-spoilers/624774/109 "2012-06-12T18:32:46Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > I think the shot of her looking at Lane’s empty chair at the meeting was the key to us seeing her realizing that with Lane gone–SHE is the one who is the one who has to worry about HOW this all gets paid for. Draper is Creative and everyone is accounts–she’s Finances. I took that as grief. She was giving good news to the firm that would have pleased him, that once would have been given by him. He was her friend. She misses him. > [@](#): > > I didn’t think [Peggy] is actually happy there. I got the impression it was “same shit, different office” but without the pull of the relationship with Don. Peggy will never be free of Don. She both loves and hates him, as she both loves and hates herself. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-13-phantom-open-spoilers/624774/110 "2012-06-12T18:43:19Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I took that as grief. She was giving good news to the firm that would have pleased him, that once would have been given by him. He was her friend. She misses him. Sure, but that’s not all that’s going on there. Her next line is something akin to “I feel like someone should point out that..etc etc.” If Lane had been sitting in that chair, he would have pointed it out. But he’s not, so it’s up to her. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-13-phantom-open-spoilers/624774/111 "2012-06-12T20:09:44Z")
I forget whether it was Don or Peggy who brought up Paris during their movie theater meeting. I wonder if it ever occurred to Don that his throwing money in her face was what triggered her leaving. (I know it was based on many other things, but that was the catalyst.) ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-13-phantom-open-spoilers/624774/112 "2012-06-12T20:12:22Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I forget whether it was Don or Peggy who brought up Paris during their movie theater meeting. I wonder if it ever occurred to Don that his throwing money in her face was what triggered her leaving. (I know it was based on many other things, but that was the catalyst.) It was Peggy. She was excited about the trip to Virginia and she said something like “It’s not Paris, but…” ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-13-phantom-open-spoilers/624774/113 "2012-06-12T20:15:10Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > It was Peggy. She was excited about the trip to Virginia and she said something like “It’s not Paris, but…” Perhaps one day she’ll make it to Paris, step out on her balcony and see two poodles humping. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-13-phantom-open-spoilers/624774/114 "2012-06-12T20:19:49Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Perhaps one day she’ll make it to Paris, step out on her balcony and see two poodles humping. Hey, at least she’d have graduated from the ground floor! ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-13-phantom-open-spoilers/624774/115 "2012-06-12T20:22:34Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > MM is famous for its subtle, well-framed shots. But the 5 partners in the new space shot is far from subtle. Definitely goes against the previous appearance of the show. I hate it. Yeah, at first I thought that Don/Jon missed his mark on that scene - everyone else is centered in a window. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-13-phantom-open-spoilers/624774/116 "2012-06-12T20:24:43Z")
> [@shemarstan](#): > > Was this story line just dropped or forgotten about…or did I miss something. Did not Peggy have a baby by Pete? The baby was being raised by her sister? How come there is no mention of the baby…or Pete finding out he had a child with Peggy? It was resolved a long, long time ago. Peggy gave the baby up for adoption. The baby seen with Peggy’s sister was her _own_ kid, not Peggy’s. Peggy told Pete about the whole thing during the Cuban missile crisis. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-13-phantom-open-spoilers/624774/117 "2012-06-12T20:26:04Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > The baby was given up for adoption. The one you saw was Peggy’s sister’s biological baby. That confused many viewers early on, and I consider it a misstep on Weiner’s part. I think it was intentional misdirection at first. After that, if you paid attention to the dialogue, you would understand that the baby was Peggy’s nephew. But it was explicitly dealt with at the end of the season. Weiner often resolves questions like this indirectly, but you have to be paying attention. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-13-phantom-open-spoilers/624774/118 "2012-06-12T20:34:40Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > Yeah, at first I thought that Don/Jon missed his mark on that scene - everyone else is centered in a window. And Joan is standing on (well, almost) her red “X” ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-13-phantom-open-spoilers/624774/119 "2012-06-12T20:42:33Z")
Ginsberg is losing it, like I thought he would. He’s got to much of an artist’s temperament (at least the stereotypical artist’s temperament) to allow his work to be judged by other. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-13-phantom-open-spoilers/624774/120 "2012-06-12T21:03:43Z")
What, exactly, was the point of Peggy’s glimpse of two dogs humping? Was it just there to screw with the folks in practices and standards? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-13-phantom-open-spoilers/624774.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-5-13-phantom-open-spoilers/624774.md?page=7)