# Mad-Men: 6.04 "To Have & to Hold" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 22, 2013, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-04-to-have-to-hold-open-spoilers/656355 "2013-04-22T00:31:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-04-to-have-to-hold-open-spoilers/656355/1 "2013-04-22T00:31:46Z")
[QUOTE=AMC] The partners try to keep a secret campaign under wraps, while Joan gets a visit from an old friend. [/QUOTE] It looks like Joan should be getting some more screentime. I wonder who the old friend will be. I hope it’s not Greg; I certainly have no desire to see him again. Then again the title does reference wedding vows. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-04-to-have-to-hold-open-spoilers/656355/2 "2013-04-22T01:32:01Z")
Last interaction Joan had with Greg was bitter, I don’t think he is any kind of ‘friend’. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-04-to-have-to-hold-open-spoilers/656355/3 "2013-04-22T02:00:22Z")
Yeah, but how many “old friends” does Joan have on the show? It could be a new character we never saw before, but the only friend of hers that I can remember seeing is her roommate from season one. The lesbian that was in love with her. Though I suppose it could be Peggy visiting her. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-04-to-have-to-hold-open-spoilers/656355/4 "2013-04-22T02:15:38Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > It looks like Joan should be getting some more screentime. I wonder who the old friend will be. I hope it’s not Greg; I certainly have no desire to see him again. Then again the title does reference wedding vows. “To Have and To Hold” is the name of the soap opera Megan is starring on as well. For somebody who so badly wants to be part of the youth culture, Harry Crane has the furnishing tastes of a little old lady. Did his grandmother decorate that office? And FINALLY Dawn gets to do something aside from just taking Don’s coat and hat. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-04-to-have-to-hold-open-spoilers/656355/5 "2013-04-22T02:29:34Z")
I’m betting Mrs Holloway doesn’t brag about _how_ her daughter got to be a partner. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-04-to-have-to-hold-open-spoilers/656355/6 "2013-04-22T02:45:59Z")
The most startling thing heard in this week’s episode: “ **Six** minutes of commercials in one hour of programming”?!? These days isn’t it more like 12 minutes of commercials in every HALF hour? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-04-to-have-to-hold-open-spoilers/656355/7 "2013-04-22T03:18:07Z")
Well Joan’s run into the same problem that Peggy did; she started out as a secratary & people still see her like one. Unlike Peggy she’s chained to SCDC. Harry was an ass and _way_ out of line. That being said I think it’s clear nobody took him seriously. He’s not getting a partnership, and he didn’t even realize that Roger & Burt were throwing it in his face that they can easily write a check out for more than his annual salary. 😛 What Joan really needs to do is hire an office manager to deal with crap like this and focus on what were Lane’s duties; she shouldn’t be doing her old job and Lane’s job. And I was jeaslous when he mentioned the commercial time too. ---
**Author:** ![SaharaTea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SaharaTea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaharaTea)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-04-to-have-to-hold-open-spoilers/656355/8 "2013-04-22T03:35:19Z")
The ladies were definitely the focus of the episode. Anyone know the music playing at the psychedelic club Joan and her friend went to? I loved the look on Don’s face as he realized Peggy’s Heinz ad totally blew their ad out of the water. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-04-to-have-to-hold-open-spoilers/656355/9 "2013-04-22T03:39:57Z")
I prefered the look on Stan’s face when he saw Peggy. The scene with the Drapers and the swingers was great though. What was up with that place Joan & her friend went too? :dubious: A telephone-themed restaurant; was that a real thing in the 60s? ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-04-to-have-to-hold-open-spoilers/656355/10 "2013-04-22T03:40:25Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Well Joan’s run into the same problem that Peggy did; she started out as a secratary & people still see her like one. Unlike Peggy she’s chained to SCDC. Harry was an ass and _way_ out of line. That being said I think it’s clear nobody took him seriously. He’s not getting a partnership, and he didn’t even realize that Roger & Burt were throwing it in his face that they can easily write a check out for more than his annual salary. 😛 What Joan really needs to do is hire an office manager to deal with crap like this and focus on what were Lane’s duties; she shouldn’t be doing her old job and Lane’s job. And I was jeaslous when he mentioned the commercial time too. Word of advice to Harry Crane: Don’t. Cross. Joan. The hell with Burt & Roger, it’s the buxom redhead who’ll shove your head in a toilet and give you a swirly you nerd (and probably not metaphorically either.) It looks like Dawn is on the fast track to becoming office manager, assuming Joan’s old duties while Joan steps into Lane’s role. The guy from the soda fountain took Joan & her friend to the Electric Circus, a pretty famous club from that era. BTW? Scotty?? Worst six months of Joan’s life? Was this ever referenced before? I think Dow would be receiving six minutes of air-time, but other sponsors would be getting air-time as well. I don’t think that was ALL the commercial air-time for the whole hour. And I so want to see an episode in which Megan’s icy mother comes down to the States to visit her, and (while Megan is out sick) steps into her daughter’s TV role for a few episodes! ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-04-to-have-to-hold-open-spoilers/656355/11 "2013-04-22T04:04:17Z")
> [@Don\_Draper](#): > > …Scotty?? Worst six months of Joan’s life? Was this ever referenced before? > > I think Dow would be receiving six minutes of air-time, but other sponsors would be getting air-time as well. I don’t think that was ALL the commercial air-time for the whole hour… Nope, we’ve never heard of Scotty before. I’m sure they only dated (maybe lived together); though it would be something if Joan had a secret failed marriage she didn’t tell anyone about. And Harry said “six minutes of ads, you get 3, plus mentions at the beginning & end”. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-04-to-have-to-hold-open-spoilers/656355/12 "2013-04-22T04:26:14Z")
> [@SaharaTea](#): > > The ladies were definitely the focus of the episode. Anyone know the music playing at the psychedelic club Joan and her friend went to? “Bonnie and Clyde” by Serge Gainsbourg and Brigitte Bardot. What’s really weird is that I had this song in my head yesterday; not sure I had heard it in ten or fifteen years. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/lsTMhScumOE/maxresdefault.jpg "Serge Gainsbourg & Brigitte Bardot - Bonnie & Clyde (Music Video with Remastered Audio)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsTMhScumOE) > [@](#): > > I loved the look on Don’s face as he realized Peggy’s Heinz ad totally blew their ad out of the water. That was a great look–he’s proud of his protege, but he also knows he’s totally boned. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-04-to-have-to-hold-open-spoilers/656355/13 "2013-04-22T04:30:31Z")
Does anybody think Don was secretly turned on seeing Megan make out with her co-star? Or by the 4-some invitation? And judging from the kiss he gave his boss, the co-star may have been a slumber party guest of their’s before. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-04-to-have-to-hold-open-spoilers/656355/14 "2013-04-22T05:30:25Z")
So, Don is pissed that Megan has to kiss another actor as part of her job while he’s carrying on affair with one of their friends. I guess that’s Don for you. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-04-to-have-to-hold-open-spoilers/656355/15 "2013-04-22T05:45:59Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > I prefered the look on Stan’s face when he saw Peggy. The scene with the Drapers and the swingers was great though. What was up with that place Joan & her friend went too? :dubious: A telephone-themed restaurant; was that a real thing in the 60s? The telephones on the tables (for calling other tables) look vaguely familiar, I don’t see why such a place wouldn’t have been all the rage. Such a place was shown in the movie ’ Cabaret’ which was set in the 30’s in Germany. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-04-to-have-to-hold-open-spoilers/656355/16 "2013-04-22T13:32:44Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Does anybody think Don was secretly turned on seeing Megan make out with her co-star? Or by the 4-some invitation? I didn’t get that from it. Didn’t seem much deeper than disgust at Megan’s kiss and amused disgust at the swingin’ invite. Guess the late night phone calls with Stan are over. I barely recognized Ginsberg. Must be the mustache. According to a random inflation calculator, $22,000 in 1968 is worth over $148,000 today. Plus his $24k bonus, Harry’s making about $300,000 this year. Still, the bonus only came because of his outburst and I think he and Cosgrove (who wasn’t with SCDP for at least a year) are the only two originals left who are not yet elevated to partner. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-04-to-have-to-hold-open-spoilers/656355/17 "2013-04-22T13:45:32Z")
Regarding the swingers that Don and Megan met, I suspect that he would be happy to bed the woman but would not be happy for Megan to bed the guy. I think he expects the cheating in his marriage to be one-sided. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-04-to-have-to-hold-open-spoilers/656355/18 "2013-04-22T14:12:46Z")
There were call-your-order-by-phone restaurants around when I was a kid growing up in the 70s – Kings, in Lincoln NE. (deep fried grilled cheese. mmmmm) And I think that “Bob”, the handsome young guy who randomly hangs around annoying Don, is supposed to be the new Lane. Anyone else get the vibe that Swinger Guy may have been interested in Don, too? I was somewhat dismayed to realize that was Ted McGinley… not usually a good sign for a show when he shows up. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-04-to-have-to-hold-open-spoilers/656355/19 "2013-04-22T14:35:44Z")
So did Peggy get the Heinz account or not? Her partner says “they bought it in the room” but Sepinwall says no one was given the account. Is he right? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-04-to-have-to-hold-open-spoilers/656355/20 "2013-04-22T14:38:22Z")
Ted Clough said that the account went to J Walter Thompson. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-04-to-have-to-hold-open-spoilers/656355.md?page=2)