# Mad-Men: 6.08 "The Crash" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 19, 2013, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-08-the-crash-open-spoilers/658772 "2013-05-19T23:48:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-08-the-crash-open-spoilers/658772/61 "2013-05-21T19:03:58Z")
The Draper kids were watching The Prisoner, which had just finished airing in the UK but was being shown as a summer replacement in 1968 in the US. A show about a man whose past name has been stripped from him and who is now trapped in a surrealistic world in which everybody is pretending to be normal, while an ever-changing group of men in suits challenge him to reveal his secrets. “A variety of techniques are used … to try to extract information from [him], including hallucinogenic drug experiences, identity theft, mind control, dream manipulation, and various forms of social indoctrination.” All coincidental, I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-08-the-crash-open-spoilers/658772/62 "2013-05-21T19:23:42Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Loved the “He’s going to look like [St. Sebastian](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/aa/St_Sebastian_3_Mantegna.jpg/155px-St_Sebastian_3_Mantegna.jpg)” line when Ginsberg passed out a knife to each person. This [Slate magazine analysis](http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2013/05/20/mad_men_season_6_episode_8_the_crash_is_scdp_fighting_its_vietnam.html) of the episode suggests the Chevy account is the ad firm’s Vietnam, and it shows an [Esquire cover photo](http://www.vulture.com/2013/05/mad-men-stan-stabbed.html) of Muhammad Ali as St Sebastian that appeared in April of that year. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-08-the-crash-open-spoilers/658772/63 "2013-05-21T20:46:42Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The Draper kids were watching The Prisoner, which had just finished airing in the UK but was being shown as a summer replacement in 1968 in the US. > > A show about a man whose past name has been stripped from him and who is now trapped in a surrealistic world in which everybody is pretending to be normal, while an ever-changing group of men in suits challenge him to reveal his secrets. “A variety of techniques are used … to try to extract information from [him], including hallucinogenic drug experiences, identity theft, mind control, dream manipulation, and various forms of social indoctrination.” > > All coincidental, I’m sure. I noticed that also. (Nice to be getting to years I remember very well.) Symbolically it makes sense - literally I’m surprised Sally was watching. Go Sally! (IIRC it actually did run on Saturday, but I’m going to have to check my Prisoner book to be sure.) ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-08-the-crash-open-spoilers/658772/64 "2013-05-21T21:21:37Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > :rolleyes: Right so, would a dose of amphetamines in your ass last for three days? I read a quote somewhere from Truman Capote that Dr. Feelgood’s shots give you energy for 72 hours, not needing to stop for sleep or even a coffee break. There might be some exaggeration, but it seems possible to me that for some people the energy boost shot lasts for three days. > [@alphaboi867](#): > > What was the point of making Betty look like Henry’s mother in the first place if she just turns back into herself with no payoff? Bobby’s line was one of the few things I liked about this episode. I think Betty had been flailing a bit. But now Henry is running for office, which has given Betty purpose again as a trophy wife. She will be needed to look good at meetings and fundraisers, just like she was once needed to look good to Don’s clients. So I think the weight loss and blonde look shows us that Betty has gone from back from housewife to trophy wife. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-08-the-crash-open-spoilers/658772/65 "2013-05-21T22:25:09Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Art knives (commonly X-Acto). As an old graphic design student in the pre-computer era when it was all markers and knives, I winced. No kidding. I used to absentmindedly wipe the wax off my X-Acto knife on my forefinger and at the end of the day, I’d have a zillion tiny razor cuts all over my fingertip. :smack: > [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > I think Betty had been flailing a bit. But now Henry is running for office, which has given Betty purpose again as a trophy wife. She will be needed to look good at meetings and fundraisers, just like she was once needed to look good to Don’s clients. So I think the weight loss and blonde look shows us that Betty has gone from back from housewife to trophy wife. Betty definitely wants Henry to run. She was thrilled when he told her he was going to a couple of episodes ago. Now she has a reason to look good again. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-08-the-crash-open-spoilers/658772/66 "2013-05-22T02:05:58Z")
Some belated thoughts about Grandma Ida. When she said she didn’t expect anybody to be home, I believed her. She looked startled at the time, and when we later found out she had hit a number of apartments in the building it made even more sense. Obviously she wouldn’t be breaking in if she thought a tiny chance of her being discovered existed. And that meant she did at least a minimum of research first. But why in the world would she think the Drapers would be gone? That minimum of research would have told her that he had his kids on occasional weekends. She couldn’t have known that Don would work several days straight. She might have heard that Megan would be at a play - but from whom? They fired their last maid and we haven’t seen a new one. You can argue that the unlocked door was an opportunity, but only if she were deliberately trying every door, ridiculously risky. Not to mention that it could mean that somebody just ran down to the basement for a moment. Of all the apartments, the Drapers seem one of the riskiest from what we know. And the break-in runs head on into the touchy subject of race. Grandma Ida was a fright. But imagine if it had been a black _man_ who broke in and encountered Sally in her jailbait scanties, even if he were also grandpa age. Sally is 15, which means she’s older than juvenile Don, who (just) lost his virginity at 14. Mad Men always plays the “spot the parallels” game, but Weiner couldn’t touch this one. Forty years later it remains too hot, too fraught. Dawn reappears, as the lowliest of menials in an office swarming with spoiled white folk abusing their bodies and minds - and by extension all of ours in the audience of advertising. But I think I’m reading too much into this episode, like the Vietnam metaphor guy. Sometimes a bad trip is just a bad trip. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-08-the-crash-open-spoilers/658772/67 "2013-05-22T02:32:23Z")
Sally states she’s 14, what makes you think she’s 15? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-08-the-crash-open-spoilers/658772/68 "2013-05-22T02:53:23Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Sally states she’s 14, what makes you think she’s 15? I thought I remembered that we had established her being born in 1953. If she’s 14, then you got me on the nitpick, but what’s the difference otherwise? She and young Dick are the same age. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-08-the-crash-open-spoilers/658772/69 "2013-05-22T03:02:22Z")
Speaking of, suppose Sally ever got those boots to match her skirt? ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-08-the-crash-open-spoilers/658772/70 "2013-05-22T03:06:41Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > But why in the world would she think the Drapers would be gone? That minimum of research would have told her that he had his kids on occasional weekends. She couldn’t have known that Don would work several days straight. She might have heard that Megan would be at a play - but from whom? Sit outside, watch people leave, see Megan leave alone dressed for an evening out - surely she didn’t leave the children home alone! Or even home at night with Don! ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-08-the-crash-open-spoilers/658772/71 "2013-05-22T03:08:26Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I thought I remembered that we had established her being born in 1953. … Egads. Sally turns 60 this year. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-08-the-crash-open-spoilers/658772/72 "2013-05-22T03:10:51Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I thought I remembered that we had established her being born in 1953. If she’s 14, then you got me on the nitpick, but what’s the difference otherwise? She and young Dick are the same age. April, 1954 according to [this](http://madmen.wikia.com/wiki/Sally_Draper). Was just wondering since I could have sworn she said she was 14 during the episode but I tend to miss a lot of stuff so she could have been lying, that is, there might have been more of a point to her saying she was that age. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-08-the-crash-open-spoilers/658772/73 "2013-05-22T05:08:29Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Speaking of, suppose Sally ever got those boots to match her skirt? I want to know if Grandma Ida ever made her those eggs. Speaking of which, Sally should have known what was up when Ida said, “Is your father Donald Draper or not?” I don’t think anyone anywhere has ever called him Donald. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-08-the-crash-open-spoilers/658772/74 "2013-05-22T12:23:24Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > I want to know if Grandma Ida ever made her those eggs. Speaking of which, Sally should have known what was up when Ida said, “Is your father Donald Draper or not?” I don’t think anyone anywhere has ever called him Donald. I remember seeing Sally eating the eggs. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-08-the-crash-open-spoilers/658772/75 "2013-05-22T12:44:46Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I remember seeing Sally eating the eggs. Well that’s a full-service burglar! Rich people, everything they have is just a little bit better than ours. I liked how Ida was trying to do a nice cold-reading of Sally. Is your father still handsome, is your mother still a piece of work. It was funny because she was gambling that a wealthy man like Don had been raised by an African-American nanny when really he was getting beat up in a whorehouse by his stepmom. However, Sally knew nothing about Don’s upbringing so she couldn’t call out Ida on this mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-08-the-crash-open-spoilers/658772/76 "2013-05-22T14:31:10Z")
A Grandma Ida could really rack up- that’s almost the perfect guise for a burglar. In the 1960s especially nobody’s going to think much if anything of a black maid in uniform going in and out of back doors of well to do apartments. Unlike in the suburbs she doesn’t have to drive or walk very far and she only needs to find one unlocked door to make a good haul. Even if you see her going into or out of the apartment of a neighbor you socialize with you’ll just assume they have a new maid, and if she leaves with a bundle you’ll assume it’s laundry or some silver she’s taking home to polish or what-not. I wonder if there were many crooks like that. (If so, a novel about them would have to be worlds better and more uplifting than _The Help_.) ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-08-the-crash-open-spoilers/658772/77 "2013-05-22T16:23:33Z")
Wow, can’t believe I missed _The Prisoner_ thing. Debuted June 1 in the US. It ran on Saturday nights, which fits. Yes, Sally got the eggs. She was eating them when Grandma Ida was searching around the TV. X-Acto knives. Okay, that makes a whole lot more sense. I was thinking art pens similar to fountain pens. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-08-the-crash-open-spoilers/658772/78 "2013-05-22T16:51:59Z")
What a weird episode. I don’t really get Cutler. > [@Sampiro](#): > > Don’s son was playing with Sam Cobra and Geronimo from the BEST OF THE WEST series. I had both of those. (Still have them, albeit eBay replacements.) man, I wish I still had those. The ones I’ve seen on EBay are stripped of all the accessories. > [@](#): > > I assumed his younger brother was a paternal half-brother, but apparently he was the son of the “uncle” and the stepmother and thus no biological relationship to Don at all. > [@](#): > > I’m pretty sure Adam was his paternal half-brother. Wasn’t his stepmother pregnant when they arrived at the whorehouse, after Don’s father died? I presume that was Adam. His stepmom didn’t appear to still be pregnant in this episode so the baby was apparently off-screen somewhere. > Unless your suggesting that Mack impregnated her sometime before their arrival? I’m pretty sure that she was pregnant when she arrived at the brothel and was still pregnant when she was having sex with Uncle Mack. > [@ftg](#): > > Note that Bobby Kennedy was shot on June 4 and died two days later. Stan says his cousin died March 4th, “3 months ago”. Given all that has happened with Chevy and such since the last episode, I don’t see 3 months being right even in round numbers. What? March 4 to June 4 is exactly three months. > [@](#): > > Maybe they were waiting out the death of Ted’s mentor. Not his mentor. His partner. He was the art department to Ted’s creative and Cutler’s accounts. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-08-the-crash-open-spoilers/658772/79 "2013-05-22T16:56:15Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > I must be pretty slow because it took me way too long to figure out that the dingy hallway was supposed to be the back door of Arnie and Silvia’s apartment. I was thinking, “When did they move to this shitty apartment?” For such nice apartments it was surprisingly gross looking. I think those back stairs could get pretty disgusting. They were mainly used for garbage removal. > [@](#): > > Is it really that big of deal to leave a 14-year-old at home alone with her siblings? That s ounds plenty old to me, assuming the door is locked. I didn’t think it would be considered a big deal. I recall girls working as babysitters starting even younger. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-08-the-crash-open-spoilers/658772/80 "2013-05-22T18:45:10Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I think those back stairs could get pretty disgusting. They were mainly used for garbage removal. And so the Negro help could come and go to and from the kitchen without being seen by the tenants. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-08-the-crash-open-spoilers/658772.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-08-the-crash-open-spoilers/658772.md?page=5)