# Mad-Men: 6.10 "A Tail of Two Cities" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 3, 2013, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-10-a-tail-of-two-cities/659984 "2013-06-03T00:10:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-10-a-tail-of-two-cities/659984/21 "2013-06-03T13:22:08Z")
Well, still moreso than Roger “We’re from New York!” Sterling. At least Don tried to take the trip seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Flip\_Pancake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f1d935/32.png) [@Flip\_Pancake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flip_Pancake)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-10-a-tail-of-two-cities/659984/22 "2013-06-03T14:09:56Z")
> [@Don\_Draper](#): > > It disturbs me that the show is really going there with the “Megan is Sharon Stone” subtext. Sharon Stone? ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-10-a-tail-of-two-cities/659984/23 "2013-06-03T14:25:35Z")
> [@Don\_Draper](#): > > It disturbs me that the show is really going there with the “Megan is Sharon Stone” subtext. The red star T-shirt last week, now her showing up in Don’s out-of-body experience in a flower power outfit gushing about the baby she’s carrying? I happen to like Megan and would absolutely hate seeing anything bad happen to her. (Well, anything aside from being Don Draper’s naive wife. That’s a bad thing.) > > When Ginsberg asked Bob if he was a homo. He conspicuously did not say no. > [@Flip\_Pancake](#): > > Sharon Stone? I assume he means Sharon Tate. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-10-a-tail-of-two-cities/659984/24 "2013-06-03T15:02:51Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > You’re right. My bad. I must be tripping. > The Democratic Convention…1968. Yeah. I was having an out of body experience. “Blame it on the acid!” – Dennis Hopper character in _Flashback_ (not a good movie, btw, but it was an important step in Dennis’ cleaning up his act, which surely added decades to his life) ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-10-a-tail-of-two-cities/659984/25 "2013-06-03T15:11:50Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I’m curious. Say more about this, please. Well, on the one hand her actions were self-indulgent, risky and deceitful. On the other hand, she was being marginalized and I understand her need to be seen as more useful than a office administrator. So that is why I ma split. A lot of it, of courses, depends on if Avon comes in. And she is going to have to bring in Pete or Ted at some point. I think her best course of action would have been to show up at the lunch meeting with Pete and Peggy anyway. Pete’s an ass, we can all agree on that, but he is an accounts guy who does this for a living and Ted wanted him there. Certainly I like Joan better than Pete, and Pete’s crying has more to do with his ego than with the affect Joan’s actions might have on landing Avon, but Joan was just as guilty of stroking her ego at the expense of what’s best for the firm. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-10-a-tail-of-two-cities/659984/26 "2013-06-03T15:35:51Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Joan was just as guilty of stroking her ego at the expense of what’s best for the firm. She was and, from the look of it off the elevator, Peggy didn’t even think the meeting was all that successful. And the Avon Guy hadn’t actually called. Maybe next month (episode) will have Avon as a client and Joan strutting with head held high but the way things were left this episode it’s hard to defend Joan. You can complain about Pete’s demeanor towards Joan, but Ted obviously thought Pete should be spearheading it and we haven’t had reason to think Ted’s incompetent. Pete’s rapidly hitting “no redeeming features” levels which isn’t a great place for a show to keep its people if you want them to be interesting. In previous seasons there was at least cause to empathize with him but now he’s becoming a caricature, failing at family and career and acting like a whiny, slimy ass while doing it. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-10-a-tail-of-two-cities/659984/27 "2013-06-03T15:45:17Z")
Bob Benson will tell anybody anything they want to hear. How do we think the Manischewitz meeting really went? I wish we could have seen Ginsberg in there. Wouldn’t surprise me if Ginsberg screwed the pooch and Benson covered for him, as he seems to do for anybody that requires it. Gotta say, it’s obviously working for him so far. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-10-a-tail-of-two-cities/659984/28 "2013-06-03T15:57:04Z")
Roger didn’t seem at all surprised to hear that Manischewitz was “in review”. I don’t think Ginsberg was the catalyst. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-10-a-tail-of-two-cities/659984/29 "2013-06-03T16:02:06Z")
> [@Flip\_Pancake](#): > > Sharon Stone? :smack::smack::smack: My bad. TATE. Sharon Tate I meant to say. > [@](#): > > Originally posted by **Jophiel** > Pete’s rapidly hitting “no redeeming features” levels which isn’t a great place for a show to keep its people if you want them to be interesting. In previous seasons there was at least cause to empathize with him but now he’s becoming a caricature, failing at family and career and acting like a whiny, slimy ass while doing it. It’s interesting just how quickly Pete devolved without his wife Trudy to ground him. For so long, he acted like Trudy was a nuisance, or a child he had to discipline. But in hindsight, Trudy was a shrewd, crafty accomplice to him. Without her, he seems completely rudderless, more so than any of the characters on the show this season. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-10-a-tail-of-two-cities/659984/30 "2013-06-03T16:02:45Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Roger didn’t seem at all surprised to hear that Manischewitz was “in review”. I don’t think Ginsberg was the catalyst. Good point. [Sepinwall’s review](http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/review-mad-men-a-tale-of-two-cities-donny-youre-out-of-your-element#q0vXeIKqr2GUKQBl.99) (which are always great), mentions this bit from a season two episode which may have some tie-in to last night’s show: > [@](#): > > Recall that in one of those, season 2’s “The Jet Set,” he also passed out at a California home with a pool. That time, he hit his head on the concrete patio, and his hosts suggested that next time, he lean towards the pool. Don Draper may not learn a lot in his life, but at least he succeeded at that, even if accidentally. (And he traded a bump on the head for a cold. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-10-a-tail-of-two-cities/659984/31 "2013-06-03T16:22:11Z")
> [@Don\_Draper](#): > > > [@Jophiel](#): > > > > Pete’s rapidly hitting “no redeeming features” levels which isn’t a great place for a show to keep its people if you want them to be interesting. In previous seasons there was at least cause to empathize with him but now he’s becoming a caricature, failing at family and career and acting like a whiny, slimy ass while doing it. > > It’s interesting just how quickly Pete devolved without his wife Trudy to ground him. For so long, he acted like Trudy was a nuisance, or a child he had to discipline. But in hindsight, Trudy was a shrewd, crafty accomplice to him. Without her, he seems completely rudderless, more so than any of the characters on the show this season. That’s a good point about Pete and Trudy. And I can’t imagine right now he would be very effective at client relations. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-10-a-tail-of-two-cities/659984/32 "2013-06-03T16:30:17Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > One thing I thought was nice: Don mumbling on the flight home how he usually finds California so great. Times - and Don - have changed. When _Mad Men_ started, Don was the smooth, suave embodiment of the times. He’s not, anymore. Yes, but he & Roger still made Harry look like a fool. Damn, that outfit… ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-10-a-tail-of-two-cities/659984/33 "2013-06-03T16:38:42Z")
I will say that Pete’s spent the last few months flustered about his lack of position in the company or fretting that he was being squeezed out. But no one else has expressed any lack of confidence in him, either to him or amongst themselves. Ted passed off Avon to Pete like it was completely natural, not with reluctance or “Damn, everyone’s gone except Pete”. It’s as though Pete’s entire workplace “failure” neurosis is completely in his own head. Poor Pete wants his name on the door so badly but he couldn’t have possibly thought the shakeout from “What’s the name going to be” would have room for a junior partner, even with the deceased partners removed from the letterhead. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-10-a-tail-of-two-cities/659984/34 "2013-06-03T17:00:54Z")
> [@Don\_Draper](#): > > :smack::smack::smack: > > My bad. TATE. Sharon Tate I meant to say. Obviously you and I are on the same drugs. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-10-a-tail-of-two-cities/659984/35 "2013-06-03T17:08:35Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > You’re right. My bad. I must be tripping. > The Democratic Convention…1968. Yeah. I was having an out of body experience. It’s understandable, I thought there was a time jump as well. The opening bit from the democratic convention specifically had a reference to “1972.” It took a moment to realize the speaker was referring to future democratic party business. I’m bored of drugged hallucinations… they are Weiner’s crutch at this point. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-10-a-tail-of-two-cities/659984/36 "2013-06-03T18:09:12Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > She was and, from the look of it off the elevator, Peggy didn’t even think the meeting was all that successful. And the Avon Guy hadn’t actually called. Maybe next month (episode) will have Avon as a client and Joan strutting with head held high but the way things were left this episode it’s hard to defend Joan. You can complain about Pete’s demeanor towards Joan, but Ted obviously thought Pete should be spearheading it and we haven’t had reason to think Ted’s incompetent… I agree; Pete had perfectly legitimate reasons to be upset with Joan, but he sucked at expressing them. Joan’s saving grace is that the Avon guy seemed just as awkward & inexperianced as Joan. And she did have a good idea re targeting working women; all the secretaries wear makeup, indeed most working women would’ve back then. She could’ve expressed herself better though. > [@Jophiel](#): > > Roger didn’t seem at all surprised to hear that Manischewitz was “in review”. I don’t think Ginsberg was the catalyst. Right, and he wasn’t even upset about loosing Manischewitz. Clearly that wasn’t the reaction Cutler was hoping for. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-10-a-tail-of-two-cities/659984/37 "2013-06-03T19:45:23Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > I bet Joan’s sure glad she still has the same office now. 😉 Granted it’ll be uncomfortable for her if Avon doesn’t come through, but it’s not something she’s going to lose her job over. I love how quickly Ted stopped caring. Ginsberg directly asking Bob if he was a homo? 🙂 I guess more that the audience suspect it. Roger getting punched in the balls by Danny was fucking spectacular. I do hate the name “Sterling, Cooper, & Partners”, but I can understand why they chose it. Of course what I’d really like to see before the show ends is Olsen, [del]Harris[/del] Holloway, & Cosgrove. 😉 Why would you want Pete to survive the series? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-10-a-tail-of-two-cities/659984/38 "2013-06-03T19:46:47Z")
NM ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-10-a-tail-of-two-cities/659984/39 "2013-06-03T20:31:02Z")
Another question about Manischewitz. Early in the episode, Roger says “Pick an eye and stick with it.” (I think that’s what he said.) Was Sammy Davis Jr. the spokesperson for Manischewitz? ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-10-a-tail-of-two-cities/659984/40 "2013-06-03T20:36:52Z")
What a pile of shite. The only thing more boring than dealing with people stoned/tripping when you’re not off your face yourself is watching actors portraying people in those situations. They should start showing Mad Men episodes to kids in school to stop them thinking drugs are cool. The show’s been lacklustre for most of this season. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-10-a-tail-of-two-cities/659984.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-6-10-a-tail-of-two-cities/659984.md?page=3)