Mad-Men: 7.03"Field Trip" (open spoilers)

Dave Wooster–THAT’S who he is!! The guy who sits across from Don and could be his clone (except for the bad clothes):

I used to watch JAG all the time, and Elliott has those same movie-star-recruiting-poster good looks as our boy Don. To me those scenes look like Don is sitting in front of a mirror looking at himself.

That’s a terrible read of Roger in this episode. Roger could care less whether Don will be controllable, and certainly didn’t realize that Don needs to work. Roger wants Don back because Lou isn’t any fun and because he’s feeling (understandably) threatened and outnumbered by Cutler. Roger’s motivation here was Roger.

What is this, the first episode you’ve seen over the past season and a half?

One other thing Don has going for him is that even if he was terminated at some point, he knows he could go almost anywhere else to work.

Exactly. Roger is the same asshole that Don is. He wants his drinking buddy because Lou isnt a player.

As far as Don getting the firm back, meh, the firm is not really interested they are weary of him. Hes damaged goods. Maybe he can convince some hotshot company with his charm and get some accounts again, but the staff have seen the real Don Draper, the guy who will steal Rizzos dream of a California office and dump all over a pitch just to wallow in self pity. Unless he gets a huge account and can clean house, he has to deal with his shit and really make amends, not pretend to in one breath and then drop his stink in the next. The allure of the firm is his alcohol, he abuses it to no end, until everyone except Roger decided its time to stop being his enabler.

No I’ve watched the series and I have absolutely no pity for this guy. There are guys like him all over and they’re revered for being assholes. The people around him are far more interesting than he is.

I thought they deliberately put Elliott in ugly horn rimmed glasses so chubby Don wouldnt be shown up in the handsome department.

I don’t think we’re supposed to think that Don is the bees’ knees of handsome anymore. I think he’s supposed to look worn and dissolute. One more reason I think the sudden come-on came across so oddly.

I think they nerded up Elliott because his firm is supposed to be an older, established firm (in contrast with upstart SDP).

All the people around him are assholes, too! Dawn and Bobby are about the only ones I’d have any sympathy for. Burt’s kinda okay, but has been complicit in too much of the asshole shennanigans at SDP over the years. Betty, Roger, Peggy, Pete, even Joan – all jerks.

I think it’s funny that we all hate Don Draper because he’s done - and continues to do - some seriously shitty stuff throughout the run of the show.

But as soon as they show people being mean to him we’re all like “Hey! Back off! Why is everyone being a jerk to Don? Don’t be a jerk to Don!”

Well maybe not all of us, but me at least. I just thought of this, how I was mad at Joan and Peggy and Bert and all of a sudden realized “Hey aren’t I supposed to be mad at Don?” :slight_smile:

I don’t have much pity for him either, but your statement was more than a little odd. He didn’t get his comeuppance when they tossed him out the door, but he gets it when they let him come back. That’s when you say “finally”?

And if you don’t think he’s interesting, then I’m not sure what other character would scratch that itch for you.

Most of his life he has been shoved down a notch or two or three. You know, I think that’s what I like about the show. I like Don; he’s a character I like despite not wanting to like him. I see him as sort of an everyman in a way; that’s just what I feel. You peel away the exterior of slickness and good looks and charm and there’s something there, there’s a sort of substance of a human being who’s suffered and suffers in a way that can’t be cured with money and status; it’s like despite all this he’s an empty man always searching for a place to belong and never finding it. He grew up in an environment where people did not care about each other as human beings, just what they could get out of them.

He cannot connect with people, he has to always be something for them except for the woman who was the wife of the husband of the guy who’s identity he stole - but then she dies of cancer. That’s why he has that breakdown I believe; he doesn’t want to be a liar and a cheat - but he will not be accepted for who he is, who he really is; warts, bad past and all. His first wife rejects him when she finds out about his past, when he breaks down and talks about his past in the pitch he gets put on leave. He has created a facade because that is what the world wants of him, that’s the only way he can try to escape the life of poverty he would otherwise have inherited. His upbringing that exposed him to a world where people manipulate and cheat each other prepared him for a the world of Madison avenue; but it is a double edged sword that is destroying him.

I don’t really think dismissing his childhood of growing up in a whorehouse into a situation where there was no caring about people; where people just used each other as just a shitty childhood he should just get over really portrays the situation accurately.

When you speak of a character who is a true narcisist, Betty is what comes to mind.

Well, yeah… Wooster is the Bizarro Don Draper. But it’s amazing how their faces are practically identical.

Well, we generally don’t like kicking people when they’re down either (I have been someone who has at times defended Pete) ;). And Don has been pretty down for a bit, and mostly because he wants to be a better person and be honest about the things he’s tried to hide because he thought they made him weak.

You think that’s bad, when I read Andiethewestie’s post I immediately thought “hey, you can’t talk about my friend Don that way!” and then “wait, he’s not my friend, he doesn’t even know me!” and then “wait, he isn’t even a real person!” and then “wait… WTF is wrong with me?” all in the span of about five seconds.

I need to apologize to everyone in this thread for my comments about mini-computers in 1969.

It turns out that I was wrong when I said that mini-computers did not appear until the mid-70s. They actually did appear in the mid 60s. However, I do remain skeptical as to just how big and powerful those early machines were and whether they could have handled the applications needed by a medium sized advertising agency. I have serious doubts that early mini-computers had the capacity to handle any real serious applications. But I could well be wrong about that.

Then again, I can’t imagine how much computing power an advertising agency would need. I don’t really understand what kind of applications they would need to run. I suppose they would try to keep track of all TV programs run - when commercials were broadcast, etc.

If so, that hardly seems like an application that would require much computing power. But there may well be other apps that I don’t know about.

So, all things considered, it would be best for me just to retract my previous remarks. Alternatively, I could add that I just don’t know what they would want to run circ. 1979 and that my previous remarks were just my opinions based on my professional computer experiences that began in 1970. I never had any experience with min-computers until 1975 and wrongly assumed that was when serious mini-computers were first available.

I’m sorry for any inconvenience.

Media buying

This job was absolutely perfect for computers because it is database management at its purest. Some of you may remember the thick books of ratings that Andy Travis used to regularly pour over on WKRP in Cincinnati. Ratings and demographics are generated for each six minute time slot during a day. Station rates are determined off of those.

Now imagine needing to do that for every radio and television station in America. The media buyer is responsible for determining what stations to run ads on, at what times, in what lengths, and in what frequency. He has to work within the budget that the client has to maximize its effectiveness. Having a computer to sort this stuff out was an incredible advancement over hand methods. Crunching through all the numbers would be slow by today’s standards, but media deals were normally made well in advance and letting the computer chug along all day would have been no big deal at the time.

Advertising agencies charged a price for doing this, normally 15% of the money spent. That makes Harry the largest day-to-day contributor of cash flow in the company. And that’s why he feels so underappreciated. In some ways he’s more important than any of the partners. Always has been.

My version of The Vest was avocado and crocheted by my mom. I win. :wink:

I concede.

<Thelma hands over the prize, a bottle of homemade Kahlua (strong coffee mixed with cheap vodka)>

Don left the agency as the pompous ass he was, but coming back not quite a mangy dog with his tail between his legs, but going back to the agency was pretty awkward for him/ from making him sit around with the other copywriters and a sandwich thrown at him while he waits for the only guy who thought he should come back Roger, but Sterling ignorantly didn’t let the others know, to keeping security on alert, to the partners giving Don what felt like conditions of parole yeah, it was sweet to see the grovel. He’s a shell, it’s time to atone.

Grovel? I think not…mark my word, Don has a plan. Did you see the look on his face when he said “OK.”?