# Mad-Men: 7.07 "Waterloo" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 26, 2014, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257 "2014-05-26T01:23:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/21 "2014-05-26T13:30:30Z")
All the later stuff almost made me forget about Meredith’s great opening scenes. Patting the couch in Don’s office and “I will be your rock…” Got a smile out of the Old Style cans in Indianapolis. Also a chuckle at Pete’s stinkface when Don passed the presentation to Peggy in the meeting. So Sally kissed the younger nerdy brother but she also parroted the older brother’s complaints about the cost of the moon landing. I’m sure at least half of us were expecting to have Sally rolling in the grass with jock-boy at some point but then they pulled the same fake-out with the draft dodging son last season. I sort of hate these questions because the answer is always “We don’t know” but in the first impromptu meeting, Don puts his dismissal to a vote and it’s turned down 4-3. Bert passes from this vale of tears and now it’s 3-3. But that’s still a tie vote. Furthermore, Don+Roger+Pete should own more shares than Jim+Ted+Joan assuming that Don, Roger, Ted and Jim have equal shares. But Pete has a 10% stake and Joan only has 5%. I don’t remember the details of the SCDP being founded but I had thought that original four named partners were equal. Anyway, I can’t imagine a scenario where Jim+Ted owned more shares than Roger+Don. Speaking of Ted, it was fun to see Lou shut down like that. I was half expecting Lou to wind up with retired Ted’s shares or something. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/22 "2014-05-26T13:37:08Z")
> [@eenerms](#): > > Would someone please explain why Roger went to Mccain. McCann wanted to buy SCP out. Normally Roger would have never allowed this but he knows his control over SCP is slipping, especially without Bert. McCann has bought out other agencies and left them in largely autonomous control as subsidiaries. Roger figures that if McCann bought out their shares and he had an agreement solidifying himself as president of the SCP subsidiary, it would lock in his leadership of the firm. The other partners would go along (esp. Joan) because of the cash they would all get. Roger sees it as the lesser evil compared to letting Cutler effectively take over the company and make it all about computers and stuff. Also, there’s no more partner’s meetings and secret deals and stuff since they no longer have control of the firm – they can go back to creating and selling advertising as their real job instead of running an advertising firm. The cash is from McCann buying 51% of their shares to gain ownership of the firm. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/23 "2014-05-26T14:20:41Z")
Bert’s talk to Roger about being leader really got to him, and when Bert died it made him realize he had to step up and be a leader to “his team.” Sally was into the jock and parroted his words to Don. Don asked if that’s what she really believed and then she went outside and saw Neil - someone actually being passionate and hands on with what was happening vs the brother that was just sitting inside bitching about it. I think that’s what really got her attention. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/24 "2014-05-26T14:21:11Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > Good episode. > > But was it just me, or were some of the effects terrible? The prop plane looked like an effect right from the 60s, then you could tell they used fake backgrounds in Meghan’s scene, and on the jetliner. Not huge deals, but I’ve never noticed any problems like that in the show before, let alone 3x in one episode That seems to be an affectation of the show. If you’ve ever noticed, every driving scene they do looks awful too. I enjoyed this episode. This is the third time they did a story like this and yet it didn’t feel old. While I enjoyed the song, I’m not sure the musical number worked within the show though. As far as why did Roger take the deal (besides stepping up in the absence of Bert): 1. To save Don. 2. To put Cutler in his place 3. To make a ton of money. (Also to screw over Harry Crane. But almost everything Roger does is for that reason 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/25 "2014-05-26T14:32:59Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > I sort of hate these questions because the answer is always “We don’t know” but in the first impromptu meeting, Don puts his dismissal to a vote and it’s turned down 4-3. Bert passes from this vale of tears and now it’s 3-3. But that’s still a tie vote. Furthermore, Don+Roger+Pete should own more shares than Jim+Ted+Joan assuming that Don, Roger, Ted and Jim have equal shares. But Pete has a 10% stake and Joan only has 5%. I don’t remember the details of the SCDP being founded but I had thought that original four named partners were equal. Anyway, I can’t imagine a scenario where Jim+Ted owned more shares than Roger+Don. I was wondering that too. It might be that the rules are such that each partner gets one vote regardless of their stake. Joan has 5%. Pete has 10%. That leaves Bert (while alive), Cutler, Ted, Don and Roger with the remaining 85%. I wonder how that was split. Does everyone get a proportional piece of Bert’s shares? I think it was established earlier that the shares are absorbed when someone croaks. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/26 "2014-05-26T14:44:40Z")
I really liked this episode. The musical number at the end didn’t make a whole lot of sense in the context of the show, but who cares? I haven’t smiled at my television that much in a long time. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/27 "2014-05-26T15:10:18Z")
It would have been cool if the closing number could have been Morse singing ["I Believe in You"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLEXE3oT3KA)from _How to Succeed in Business_. The [lyrics](http://www.lyricsmania.com/soundtracklyrics/how_to_succeed_in_business_without_really_trying_soundtrack_lyrics_467/i_believe_in_you_lyrics_7040.html)paint a portrait of Don Draper: > [@](#): > > …there’s the bold, brave spring of the tiger > That quickens your walk… > the cool, clear > Eyes of a seeker of wisdom and truth; > Yet, with the slam-bang tang > Reminiscent of gin and vermouth… I even liked Pete in this episode. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/28 "2014-05-26T16:52:50Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > That seems to be an affectation of the show. If you’ve ever noticed, every driving scene they do looks awful too. Yeah, perhaps I didn’t just see it before. Coincidentally, they just released a behind-the-scenes photo of Megan’s set and it looks _exactly_ as I expected, as you can even show the curve of the cityscape in the episode too [![](http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--iBK-pguw--/h38hegimw53yfypc56oe.jpg) ](http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--iBK-pguw--/h38hegimw53yfypc56oe.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/29 "2014-05-26T19:55:00Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > …So Sally kissed the younger nerdy brother but she also parroted the older brother’s complaints about the cost of the moon landing. I’m sure at least half of us were expecting to have Sally rolling in the grass with jock-boy at some point but then they pulled the same fake-out with the draft dodging son last season… Parroting the cute boy’s opinions on a subject she probably never even thought about before is pure Betty. 🙂 > [@hajario](#): > > I was wondering that too. It might be that the rules are such that each partner gets one vote regardless of their stake. > > Joan has 5%. Pete has 10%. That leaves Bert (while alive), Cutler, Ted, Don and Roger with the remaining 85%. I wonder how that was split. Does everyone get a proportional piece of Bert’s shares? I think it was established earlier that the shares are absorbed when someone croaks. I think they’d have to buy his shares back from his heirs; when Lane died they had to cut Mrs Pryce a check (presumably they could’ve avoided that at the cost of a nasty legal battle over his embezzlement). Burt’s sister, Alice Cooper, was mentioned (& she was a partner in the original firm). ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/30 "2014-05-26T21:32:31Z")
A very good episode. But I don’t understand why they don’t just cut the Francis Family. It always detracts from the show and wastes time that should be spent on office stuff. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/31 "2014-05-26T21:37:11Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > A very good episode. But I don’t understand why they don’t just cut the Francis Family. It always detracts from the show and wastes time that should be spent on office stuff. The bit where Don had the conversation with Sally and then she kissed the astronomy nerd was nice but I would have preferred all of it to be replaced by office scenes too. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/32 "2014-05-26T22:38:31Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Parroting the cute boy’s opinions on a subject she probably never even thought about before is pure Betty. 🙂 So was the pose she struck when smoking her cigarette. Classic Betty. I think the scene with the astronomy kid was a pivotal moment for Sally. Up until then, she’d been nothing but cynical and angry. That was why she was at first attracted to the obnoxious jock and at first parroted what he said. But seeing a kid with a real passion for something who was willing to share it with her, plus the comments from her dad (for whom she has new found respect), opened her eyes. I think the kiss was almost meant to show her sudden epiphany and change in outlook. And then after the kid left, she stayed outside, staring at the stars in thought. I predict Sally will now do an about-face and be a much better person and be headed for a decent future. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/33 "2014-05-26T23:37:08Z")
I’m already bracing myself for how sad I’m going to be when this series is over and I won’t know what happens to the characters in the future… ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/34 "2014-05-27T00:29:00Z")
I did enjoy the episode though I hated the end. It seems out of character for the series and I really hope they don’t decide to have Don hallucinating or be discovered to have a brain tumor or something stupid. Was I the only one who really enjoyed the confrontation between Don and Cutler. “I am seriously unimpressed!” “You’re a football player in a suit!” ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/35 "2014-05-27T00:37:59Z")
This isn’t the first time the series has bent reality. It’s not even the second. I can’t say enough how much I loved it. Saw an interview with Robert Morse about Bert’s sendoff and it made me appreciate it even more. Will link to that when I have a chance. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/36 "2014-05-27T00:38:53Z")
Is anyone else constantly starting to have comparisons to “Barry Lyndon” floating around in their head as they watch Mad Men this season? FTR If anyone thinks Don is an ass; he is a saint compared to Barry Lyndon IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/37 "2014-05-27T00:49:28Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > A very good episode. But I don’t understand why they don’t just cut the Francis Family. It always detracts from the show and wastes time that should be spent on office stuff. Because Don’s storyline is on a redemption arc. Having that redemption only be at the office will come across as shallow and trite. They need to show that Don can be a better father, too. Hence, we’ll be getting more scenes showing how he is relating better to his kids. Which need scenes about what is going on in the kids’ and Betty’s life, to put those into context. And, really, we just saw Don be a positive influence on his daughter. That’s kind of a big moment; Sally’s typical interactions with either parent are usually horrible. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/38 "2014-05-27T00:55:24Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > So was the pose she struck when smoking her cigarette. Classic Betty. > > I think the scene with the astronomy kid was a pivotal moment for Sally. Up until then, she’d been nothing but cynical and angry. That was why she was at first attracted to the obnoxious jock and at first parroted what he said. But seeing a kid with a real passion for something who was willing to share it with her, plus the comments from her dad (for whom she has new found respect), opened her eyes. I think the kiss was almost meant to show her sudden epiphany and change in outlook. And then after the kid left, she stayed outside, staring at the stars in thought. > > I predict Sally will now do an about-face and be a much better person and be headed for a decent future. I thought she was just toying with him. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/39 "2014-05-27T01:31:53Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > All the later stuff almost made me forget about Meredith’s great opening scenes. Patting the couch in Don’s office and “I will be your rock…” > > Got a smile out of the Old Style cans in Indianapolis. Also a chuckle at Pete’s stinkface when Don passed the presentation to Peggy in the meeting. > > So Sally kissed the younger nerdy brother but she also parroted the older brother’s complaints about the cost of the moon landing. I’m sure at least half of us were expecting to have Sally rolling in the grass with jock-boy at some point but then they pulled the same fake-out with the draft dodging son last season. > > I sort of hate these questions because the answer is always “We don’t know” but in the first impromptu meeting, Don puts his dismissal to a vote and it’s turned down 4-3. Bert passes from this vale of tears and now it’s 3-3. But that’s still a tie vote. Furthermore, Don+Roger+Pete should own more shares than Jim+Ted+Joan assuming that Don, Roger, Ted and Jim have equal shares. But Pete has a 10% stake and Joan only has 5%. I don’t remember the details of the SCDP being founded but I had thought that original four named partners were equal. Anyway, I can’t imagine a scenario where Jim+Ted owned more shares than Roger+Don. > > Speaking of Ted, it was fun to see Lou shut down like that. I was half expecting Lou to wind up with retired Ted’s shares or something. I think Cutler was counting on Harry becoming a partner and siding with he, Ted and Joan Benedict. 😉 Loved Meridith. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/40 "2014-05-27T02:39:43Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > I think Cutler was counting on Harry becoming a partner and siding with he, Ted and Joan Benedict. 😉 That makes sense – and we can ignore Cutler not knowing that Harry is more of a wildcard that he would suspect – except that Harry wasn’t yet a partner. Still, it fits in with the overall picture that Cutler, in his eagerness to get rid of Don, overplayed his hand in haste. Joan said as much after the first failed vote and it was indeed that premature move that helped inspire Roger to go to McCann following Bert’s death (Cutler’s behavior outside Bert’s office reinforced it, of course). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257.md?page=3)