# Mad-Men: 7.07 "Waterloo" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 26, 2014, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257 "2014-05-26T01:23:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/61 "2014-05-28T13:55:50Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > And he’s going to be back in NYC. But Don and Peggy are getting close. Soap opera ensues. > > Speaking of intrigue. I think the Meredith and Don kiss is going to be a set up for something. E.g., Meredith gets mad when Don chooses to date someone else and she seeks revenge. Maybe Don has Dawn transfer and fire her, sexual harassment lawsuit arises (never mind who started what). If either if those things happens, then this show will become a run-of-the-mill soap opera instead of a quality drama. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/62 "2014-05-28T14:13:53Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > The percentages don’t add up. (And since when does a 5% partner get an equal vote to 10%+ partners?) Pete couldn’t have had a 20% share before the merger. He was a junior partner. Lane dying frees up some shares, etc., but still that’s too big a share after all the dust settles. That’s a pretty typical setup for partnerships. Unless you have a controlling interest in the company, every partner has one vote regardless of how much stock he owns. I’m sure an actual MBA here could explain it better. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/63 "2014-05-28T15:08:31Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > But Don and Peggy are getting close. Soap opera ensues. Don and Peggy don’t have THAT kind of chemistry. There are other intense ways for men and women to relate, and this is an illustration of that. Even if there is a \*frisson \*of sexuality because of the boy/girl thing, they aren’t each other’s type. It’s the creative connection that is the root (as it were) of the buzz between them. > [@](#): > > Speaking of intrigue. I think the Meredith and Don kiss is going to be a set up for something. E.g., Meredith gets mad when Don chooses to date someone else and she seeks revenge. Maybe Don has Dawn transfer and fire her, sexual harassment lawsuit arises (never mind who started what). The concept of “sexual harassment” and/or a “sexual harassment lawsuit” were not on the radar back then. Certainly not without an actual ongoing sexual relationship. One kiss? That she initiated? Nope. And anyway, Meredith wouldn’t have thought of it, nor of “revenge.” Revenge for what? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/64 "2014-05-28T15:34:05Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Don and Peggy don’t have THAT kind of chemistry. There are other intense ways for men and women to relate, and this is an illustration of that. Even if there is a \*frisson \*of sexuality because of the boy/girl thing, they aren’t each other’s type. It’s the creative connection that is the root (as it were) of the buzz between them. Having them dance, especially in [del]Don’s[/del] Lou’s office, was one of the most wonderful, and almost wholly non-sexual moments of the series. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/65 "2014-05-28T16:14:57Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Mrs. FtG points out that Betty is completely irrelevant to the story. She isn’t representing any sort of 50s housewife becoming liberated or anything. She’s just there. Her storyline is over. No, Betty is there to provide contrast to the storyline of Don turning his life around. And to give the context of what is going on in their kids’ lives, showing how Don is becoming a useful parent (unlike Betty). She also is the comparison for what is going on with _other_ women portrayed in the series, whether that is Peggy and Joan having careers, or Betty’s other “friends” getting some kind of life outside the home for themselves. We’ll be seeing Betty through the last episode. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/66 "2014-05-28T16:26:19Z")
There you go: Betty is functional to the plot. Like a J-trap on a sink. And almost half as exciting. ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/67 "2014-05-28T16:28:35Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Mary Jo Kopechne and Bert could have done a water dance. Oh my God, you are so awful. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/68 "2014-05-28T16:34:03Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > There you go: Betty is functional to the plot. Like a J-trap on a sink. And almost half as exciting. But not quite half the acting range. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/69 "2014-05-29T01:30:13Z")
Bert’s death, the buyout, and other plot events almost made me forget “Oh yeah, Don and Megan are over”; so much happened on this episode after several not particularly eventful ones it’s a bit of a whiplash. I wonder when the next episode will take place, or if Megan will be an important character in the remaining episodes. Matt Weiner has toyed with the idea of ending the show in modern day with Don in his late 80s, roughly the age that Bert was in this episode. If it were up to you, would you go that route? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/70 "2014-05-29T01:42:21Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > But not quite half the acting range. 😉 So her emotions run the gamut from J to P? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/71 "2014-05-29T01:50:23Z")
What happens to Bert’s shares? He has no children, though his sister- assuming she’s still alive- was at one time a silent partner. Would the company have to pay his estate or are they reabsorbed? ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/72 "2014-05-29T01:59:15Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Matt Weiner has toyed with the idea of ending the show in modern day with Don in his late 80s, roughly the age that Bert was in this episode. If it were up to you, would you go that route? What’s odd is that everyone I know seems to have this same idea. If Don is around 40 in 1969, he could be 84 in 2014. Peggy would be 70 and Sally would be in her mid 50s. It’s a fun idea, but I don’t see what story you can tell with it. I don’t even see what story is left to tell with the next seven episodes. Everyone seems to have resolved their issues. Don held on to his relationship with Roger, Peggy and Sally. Roger became a leader. Peggy is creatively fulfilled. Joan got her money. Sally is becoming her own person. I don’t really care about anyone else. I’m fascinated about what’s going to come next. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/73 "2014-05-29T02:21:08Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Matt Weiner has toyed with the idea of ending the show in modern day with Don in his late 80s, roughly the age that Bert was in this episode. If it were up to you, would you go that route? I would be pleased if the finale or last few episodes caught us up with the characters fates rather than end with their stories still unfinished. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/74 "2014-05-29T04:01:17Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > The cityscape background for Megan seems wrong. She is supposed to live in a canyon. Ever been to a house in the Hollywood Hills/Santa Monica Mountains? You get there by going up Laurel Canyon Blvd. or Benedict Canyon Dr., but the house has a view out over the LA Basin (or the San Fernando Valley). ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/75 "2014-05-29T12:41:52Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > What happens to Bert’s shares? He has no children, though his sister- assuming she’s still alive- was at one time a silent partner. > Would the company have to pay his estate or are they reabsorbed? After it was announced that Bert had died, someone asked, “Is his sister still alive?” and I don’t think anyone answered. But that probably did figure into the redistribution of partnerships. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/76 "2014-05-29T12:49:02Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > After it was announced that Bert had died, someone asked, “Is his sister still alive?” and I don’t think anyone answered. But that probably did figure into the redistribution of partnerships. Don asked that, of Roger on the phone. Roger didn’t answer. Don was no doubt thinking that Bert’s sister could be a vote on Roger’s side, but since that didn’t go anywhere we can probably assume it wouldn’t have been an option. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/77 "2014-05-29T13:42:22Z")
Is it just my faulty recollection, or has there been some slight retconning of the story line over the seasons? 1. Wasn’t Roger the son of the original Sterling, who was Bert’s partner? Other than as a longtime business acquaintance and partner, why would Bert “mean so much” to Roger? They seem to be blurring the line between the relationships Sterling Sr. and Jr. might have had. 2. Was there a conclusion to the saga of Peggy’s son? There was the pregnancy, which took her by surprise, and then the baby, which she was raising with her family, and then he was a toddler, being raised by her mother as she got busier and more important… and then never another mention. Someone upthread mentioned adoption, but was that ever established, even in a passing line? He just sort of… vanished. 3. Maybe Don just outlived the consequences of “Dick Whitman” (or maybe I should quote the names the other way around), but after Anne(?) died there hasn’t been a single complication from it. Could Betty really keep her nasty, stupid mouth shut about it in years of gossip and marriage? Did Bert and Pete really never have an occasion to use it as a lever, or even a helpful yank on the leash? Maybe the story line just outgrew it, but having the issue vanish (yes, Anne’s daughter alluded to it briefly) is kind of… wasteful. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/78 "2014-05-29T13:52:12Z")
Peggy gave up the baby. The toddler was her sister’s child. Roger and Bert have known each other probably for all of Rogers’s life. I’m sure he was a force in his life for years and a connection to his father as well. Think of him like an uncle. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/79 "2014-05-29T14:06:18Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > 1. Maybe Don just outlived the consequences of “Dick Whitman” (or maybe I should quote the names the other way around), but after Anne(?) died there hasn’t been a single complication from it. Could Betty really keep her nasty, stupid mouth shut about it in years of gossip and marriage? Did Bert and Pete really never have an occasion to use it as a lever, or even a helpful yank on the leash? Maybe the story line just outgrew it, but having the issue vanish (yes, Anne’s daughter alluded to it briefly) is kind of… wasteful. Bert did mention it when Don was signing a contract awhile back when he said something along the lines of “After all, who’s really signing this contract anyway?”. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/80 "2014-05-29T14:17:00Z")
> [@GrandWino](#): > > Bert did mention it when Don was signing a contract awhile back when he said something along the lines of “After all, who’s really signing this contract anyway?”. Right, but that was… S2? Early S3? Before the Anna arc, even. (It was a wonderfully knowing, snarky, understanding comment from Bert.) There hasn’t been a mention since telling someone - Betty? - that Anna had died. The daughter making a brief appearance this season is as close as it’s come. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257.md?page=5)