# Mad-Men: 7.07 "Waterloo" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 26, 2014, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257 "2014-05-26T01:23:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/81 "2014-05-29T14:35:00Z")
I have a feeling it’ll come back in some way before the series is over. It has to. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/82 "2014-05-29T14:37:16Z")
Don’s asking about Bert’s sister seemed more of a normal question to ask in the event of a death than any pawn shuffling. We still don’t really know how the shares were handled/divided when Lane died. The last real complication I remember from the “Dick Whitman” thing was Don needing Pete to kill a potential airline account that Pete had worked long and hard on courting. They had government ties and were going to need to do background checks and Don’s secretary (don’t even remember who) “helpfully” filled out Don’s form and mailed it in. Pete killed the account lead and was rightfully pissed but then when SCDP needed all the partners to pony up ten grand each to keep the firm afloat, Don paid Pete’s portion and all was seemingly smoothed over. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/83 "2014-05-29T14:49:09Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > 1. Wasn’t Roger the son of the original Sterling, who was Bert’s partner? Other than as a longtime business acquaintance and partner, why would Bert “mean so much” to Roger? They seem to be blurring the line between the relationships Sterling Sr. and Jr. might have had. “Other than”? We’ve seen Roger’s life; he doesn’t have _anyone_ in his life other than longtime business acquaintances and partners – that’s basically Bert, Don, Joan, and his ex-wife. Of course Bert’s death affected him strongly; Bert was basically one-fourth of the people he cared about. > [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > 1. Was there a conclusion to the saga of Peggy’s son? There was the pregnancy, which took her by surprise, and then the baby, which she was raising with her family, and then he was a toddler, being raised by her mother as she got busier and more important… and then never another mention. Someone upthread mentioned adoption, but was that ever established, even in a passing line? He just sort of… vanished. As noted, Peggy gave the child up for adoption; her family was never raising it. Peggy later told Pete that she’d done so (last episode of Season 2, maybe?). > [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > 1. Maybe Don just outlived the consequences of “Dick Whitman” (or maybe I should quote the names the other way around), but after Anne(?) died there hasn’t been a single complication from it. Could Betty really keep her nasty, stupid mouth shut about it in years of gossip and marriage? Did Bert and Pete really never have an occasion to use it as a lever, or even a helpful yank on the leash? Maybe the story line just outgrew it, but having the issue vanish (yes, Anne’s daughter alluded to it briefly) is kind of… wasteful. Dick Whitman led to a sort-of blackmail attempt by Pete, Bert using it as leverage to get Don to sign Connie’s contract, the end of Don & Betty’s marriage, Pete almost accidentally getting Don hauled off because of a security clearance check for a client, and Betty having to lie to some G-men who showed up as part of the security clearance check. All of which culminated in Don revealing his history to his kids – in what might have been his first honest moment with them, ever. Also, Megan knew about it, and it just got a callback this season when Annie’s niece whatshername showed up and referred to Don as “Dick”. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/84 "2014-05-29T14:56:10Z")
Dr. Faye knows about it as well although she’s long gone from the picture. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/85 "2014-05-29T15:02:32Z")
> [@GrandWino](#): > > I have a feeling it’ll come back in some way before the series is over. It has to. I’ve thought of this: Last scene is of Don, very elderly, watching TV. Something will tie what he’s watching to the run of the show… a retro ad for Utz or Chevy or something. He’ll smile. We’ll get some clue of his life from the surroundings. His wife - who will likely be no one we’ve ever seen - will come in and smile at the same thing, a bonding moment. She’ll kiss him, and the last line will be: “Dinner’s on, Dick.” ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/86 "2014-05-29T15:16:19Z")
I wonder: when Bert said “Bravo!” at the moon landing, was it for the landing itself, or because he recognized that “One small step for man…” was \*terrific \* copy? ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/87 "2014-05-29T16:41:51Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I was wondering that too. It might be that the rules are such that each partner gets one vote regardless of their stake. > > Joan has 5%. Pete has 10%. That leaves Bert (while alive), Cutler, Ted, Don and Roger with the remaining 85%. I wonder how that was split. Does everyone get a proportional piece of Bert’s shares? I think it was established earlier that the shares are absorbed when someone croaks. According to the firm’s Wiki page, the split goes like this: Junior Partners: Joan Holloway = 5%; Pete Campbell = 10%. Senior Partners: Bert Cooper = 20%; Roger Sterling = 20%; Donald Draper = 12%; Ted Chaough = 20%; Jim Cutler = 13%. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterling\_Cooper\_Draper\_Pryce](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterling_Cooper_Draper_Pryce) ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/88 "2014-05-29T16:48:50Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I wonder: when Bert said “Bravo!” at the moon landing, was it for the landing itself, or because he recognized that “One small step for man…” was \*terrific \* copy? I took it as a little of both. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/89 "2014-05-29T16:49:18Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Right, but that was… S2? Early S3? Before the Anna arc, even. (It was a wonderfully knowing, snarky, understanding comment from Bert.) > > There hasn’t been a mention since telling someone - Betty? - that Anna had died. The daughter making a brief appearance this season is as close as it’s come. Don hid out in California at Anna’s starting in S02E12. The line about signing the contract was S03E07. It was Anna’s niece that showed up pregnant a couple weeks ago. Ted has a bigger share than Cutler??? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/90 "2014-05-29T16:56:04Z")
Man, I forgot all about Gleason. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/91 "2014-05-29T18:09:34Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Is it just my faulty recollection, or has there been some slight retconning of the story line over the seasons? > > 1. Wasn’t Roger the son of the original Sterling, who was Bert’s partner? Other than as a longtime business acquaintance and partner, why would Bert “mean so much” to Roger? They seem to be blurring the line between the relationships Sterling Sr. and Jr. might have had. Throughout the series, there have been numerous signs that Bert and Roger were very close, in an almost father-son relationship. There was an episode in which Roger commented on a picture on Bert’s desk if Roger as a child (sitting on Bert’s knee, perhaps?) and Bert grinning broadly and noting that “you were very cute back then.” Several other small moments illustrated that Cooper loved Roger a lot. > [@](#): > > 1. Was there a conclusion to the saga of Peggy’s son? There was the pregnancy, which took her by surprise, and then the baby, which she was raising with her family, and then he was a toddler, being raised by her mother as she got busier and more important… and then never another mention. Someone upthread mentioned adoption, but was that ever established, even in a passing line? He just sort of… vanished. No, the baby we saw was Peggy’s nephew. Her own baby was given up for adoption and never seen in the show. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/92 "2014-05-29T18:43:34Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > No, the baby we saw was Peggy’s nephew. Her own baby was given up for adoption and never seen in the show. Okay. Wow, I didn’t think I’d missed any details that big. The baby/toddler in the family group really misdirected me. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/93 "2014-05-29T18:46:38Z")
That was a confusing scene. I remember talking about it with my wife several years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/94 "2014-05-29T19:04:07Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Dick Whitman led to a sort-of blackmail attempt by Pete, Bert using it as leverage to get Don to sign Connie’s contract, the end of Don & Betty’s marriage, Pete almost accidentally getting Don hauled off because of a security clearance check for a client, and Betty having to lie to some G-men who showed up as part of the security clearance check. All of which culminated in Don revealing his history to his kids – in what might have been his first honest moment with them, ever. Also, Megan knew about it, and it just got a callback this season when Annie’s niece whatshername showed up and referred to Don as “Dick”. Strictly speaking Dick Whitman deserted from the Army. But the statute of limitations on that crime expired long ago. You’d think that once Don got rich he could hire an expensive lawyer to fix everything up - do a legal change of name, etc. That wouldn’t help him get a security clearance, but he could stop worrying about it. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/95 "2014-05-29T19:14:56Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Strictly speaking Dick Whitman deserted from the Army. But the statute of limitations on that crime expired long ago. If he deserted ca. 1951, it would have been 18 years at the time of the current season. Is desertion (from a combat zone, if not a declared war) under less than 20 years? Even if it’s shorter… At the beginning of the series it would have been just under ten years. He would have had to explain some embarrassing things - cowardly, even pusillanimous - to a lot of people in a time when military service was a highly regarded thing. It would have ended his career. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/96 "2014-05-29T19:31:58Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Strictly speaking Dick Whitman deserted from the Army. But the statute of limitations on that crime expired long ago. You’d think that once Don got rich he could hire an expensive lawyer to fix everything up - do a legal change of name, etc. That wouldn’t help him get a security clearance, but he could stop worrying about it. But you figure he probably has committed a thousand other crimes since then: every time he signed a check using the name Don Draper, every time he filed taxes as Draper, etc. etc. If a prosecuter was motivated, he could probably go to town on Draper for every financial transaction he had under a false name. ---
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/97 "2014-05-29T20:58:27Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Matt Weiner has toyed with the idea of ending the show in modern day with Don in his late 80s, roughly the age that Bert was in this episode. If it were up to you, would you go that route? I hope not. “Old person” makeup always looks like shit and takes me right out of the scene, and I’d rather that not happen to the ending of this series. Peggy’s “fat girl” suit in the early seasons was bad enough. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/98 "2014-05-29T23:47:21Z")
I don’t think they could convincingly make Jon Hamm look 80 anyway…but they could cast an older actor… but then the end of show doesn’t feature the “real” Don Draper. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/99 "2014-05-30T00:06:04Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > …Roger and Bert have known each other probably for all of Rogers’s life. I’m sure he was a force in his life for years and a connection to his father as well. Think of him like an uncle. Don’t forget that Alice Cooper babysat Roger as a kid (& Roger lost his virginity to Burt’s secretary, Miss Blankenship aka the Queen of Perversions). ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257/100 "2014-05-30T00:13:30Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > If he deserted ca. 1951, it would have been 18 years at the time of the current season. Is desertion (from a combat zone, if not a declared war) under less than 20 years? > > Even if it’s shorter… At the beginning of the series it would have been just under ten years. He would have had to explain some embarrassing things - cowardly, even pusillanimous - to a lot of people in a time when military service was a highly regarded thing. It would have ended his career. [It turns out](https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=1006052644152) that the statute of limitations on desertion is two years but unlimited during war time. What it is during police actions I don’t know. In the early seasons his worry about desertion is mentioned. Still, a lawyer could work it out. IIRC Dick was wounded - and might have been mustered out even under his real name. It would be an interesting case. > [@madmonk28](#): > > But you figure he probably has committed a thousand other crimes since then: every time he signed a check using the name Don Draper, every time he filed taxes as Draper, etc. etc. If a prosecuter was motivated, he could probably go to town on Draper for every financial transaction he had under a false name. My understanding is that realistically fraud must be involved. Don Draper signing for legitimate expenses paid with legitimately earned money would be hard to prosecute, since no one was harmed. The validity of contracts he signed would be interesting to consider. Were checks made out to James Tiptree? I suspect they were. Was Alice Sheldon committing fraud by cashing them? I doubt it. I bet someone will publish a law review article on the Draper case some day. But in any case Don certainly acts like he must adhere to the terms of all contracts, which has come up several times. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-07-waterloo-open-spoilers/689257.md?page=6)