# Mad-Men: 7.12 "Lost Horizon" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 4, 2015, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-12-lost-horizon-open-spoilers/719190 "2015-05-04T00:21:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-12-lost-horizon-open-spoilers/719190/81 "2015-05-05T12:30:53Z")
Think back to The premiere episode when Joan was giving Peggy all that life advice. Back then, an office girl’s highest ambition was to marry an executive and move to the suburbs (“in the country”). Joan has come a long way. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-12-lost-horizon-open-spoilers/719190/82 "2015-05-05T13:18:41Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > And that was classic to me, because Roger steps in and offers a face savings gesture that . . . no one wants and that was on the table before he even showed up in the office. He’s stepped in and done effectively nothing. > > Perhaps I read into Joan’s character. But I thought I saw a moments flash of disappointment in her eyes, that after all they have be though (with her picking up her rolodex and _their_ sons picture) that Roger couldn’t have put himself on the line with Jim Hobart and gotten her more (most? all?) of her money. Once again, a man in her life has delivered nothing but disappointment. > > And is the next episode the one where Hobart sends Roger packing? Roger is here only to keep the cats herded, but Don’s gone, the red head’s a royal pain in the ass, Peggy was already hired, so what are you doing for me?? See, I saw it completely differently. The 50 cents on the dollar offer was off the table as soon as Joan asked for 100. If Joan accepted the 50 directly from Hobart, that’s an admission that she lost and Hobart won. If Hobart put the offer back, he’s the one who loses the confrontation. Roger gets to convince Joan that he fought Hobart to put the offer back and Hobart that he pushed Joan to say yes. Everyone gets to save face. Roger is a people person in the best sense of the word. ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-12-lost-horizon-open-spoilers/719190/83 "2015-05-05T13:26:18Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > Yes, I was misinformed, NOT going to be a 2 hour finale. You can be forgiven for some confusion–AMC has been describing things in a confusing way (“NEXT WEEK, the VERY LAST episode of Mad Men before the REALLY FOR REAL LAST EPISODE of Mad Men…”) ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-12-lost-horizon-open-spoilers/719190/84 "2015-05-05T13:32:15Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > See, I saw it completely differently. The 50 cents on the dollar offer was off the table as soon as Joan asked for 100. If Joan accepted the 50 directly from Hobart, that’s an admission that she lost and Hobart won. If Hobart put the offer back, he’s the one who loses the confrontation. Roger gets to convince Joan that he fought Hobart to put the offer back and Hobart that he pushed Joan to say yes. Everyone gets to save face. > > Roger is a people person in the best sense of the word. You could be right. But I could see Hobart gloating that he got rid of “that red heard” for 50 cents on the dollar. Hard to see Joan gloating that she left (with the accompanying non-compete clause and agreement not to sue) for 50 cents on the dollar. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-12-lost-horizon-open-spoilers/719190/85 "2015-05-05T13:33:01Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > Roger is a people person in the best sense of the word. Don Draper is Dick Whitman’s impression of Roger Sterling. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-12-lost-horizon-open-spoilers/719190/86 "2015-05-05T13:34:07Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > See, I saw it completely differently. The 50 cents on the dollar offer was off the table as soon as Joan asked for 100. If Joan accepted the 50 directly from Hobart, that’s an admission that she lost and Hobart won. If Hobart put the offer back, he’s the one who loses the confrontation. Roger gets to convince Joan that he fought Hobart to put the offer back and Hobart that he pushed Joan to say yes. Everyone gets to save face. > > Roger is a people person in the best sense of the word. I agree. Roger was the bridge that made it work. Neither Hobart nor Joan wanted Joan working there but the negotiations directly between the two of them were dead. Roger was able to act as a middle man and convince Joan of the truth: that $250k was the best she was going to do to get out of there and gave Hobart the peace of mind to know that she was gone. Joan didn’t have to go back to Hobart directly to ask for her fifty cents and Hobart didn’t have to try to convince Joan to leave. I think that McCann had some interest in SC&P’s accounts and also in their personnel. Plus, by buying up the competition you’re eliminating them. From what I understand, a lot of smaller ad agencies disappeared during this era due to buy-outs and consolidations. I don’t know if it was special to SC&P – I think that if CGC still existed as their own firm and made signs to McCann that they were for sale, McCann would have just as happily bought them out. Any credible agency would have been of interest for a purchase. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-12-lost-horizon-open-spoilers/719190/87 "2015-05-05T13:41:57Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Don Draper is Dick Whitman’s impression of Roger Sterling. Yeah, there really is a Jay Gatsby quality to Don/Dick isn’t there? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-12-lost-horizon-open-spoilers/719190/88 "2015-05-05T14:15:20Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > And he wants Draper so much that he doesn’t know about his not-a-secret habit of disappearing occasionally? Well I don’t think that his firms advertise that (no pun intended). Or if he heard it probably just thought it was hyperbole - maybe they were extrapolating from him having a bender, which is what he thought it was when Don didn’t show. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-12-lost-horizon-open-spoilers/719190/89 "2015-05-05T14:16:22Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > I think that McCann had some interest in SC&P’s accounts and also in their personnel. Plus, by buying up the competition you’re eliminating them. From what I understand, a lot of smaller ad agencies disappeared during this era due to buy-outs and consolidations. I don’t know if it was special to SC&P – I think that if CGC still existed as their own firm and made signs to McCann that they were for sale, McCann would have just as happily bought them out. Any credible agency would have been of interest for a purchase. Of course McCann was interested in SC&P’s accounts – the entire reason that Roger had the opportunity was because Hobart approached him in the steam room after McCann got rumors of the Chevy/Buick situation. ---
**Author:** ![Soylent\_Juicy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@Soylent\_Juicy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soylent_Juicy)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-12-lost-horizon-open-spoilers/719190/90 "2015-05-05T14:17:50Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Diet beer. Hah, good one. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-12-lost-horizon-open-spoilers/719190/91 "2015-05-05T15:10:58Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > What did McCann Erickson get out of this merger? > > SCP had no proprietary information or intellectual property they wanted or needed. > > They don’t give two shits about SCP’s clients. > > They despise and have no respect for SCP’s personnel, all except for Don. > > So this whole thing was nothing but Jim Hobart’s decade-long desire to put Don Draper in a dog collar? > > And he wants Draper so much that he doesn’t know about his not-a-secret habit of disappearing occasionally? They got to eliminate some competition. I don’t think it was even about getting Don. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-12-lost-horizon-open-spoilers/719190/92 "2015-05-05T17:51:52Z")
He offered Joan 50% to make her go away because throwing money at the problem solved it in his eyes. She was a bug and he was squishing it with money. She was in a box and really had no options left. Work with Touchy McGrabherbutt for X amount of time to get all of it or walk away with 50%. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-12-lost-horizon-open-spoilers/719190/93 "2015-05-05T18:46:33Z")
Would her saying “I have a boyfriend and a son. Thanks but no, thanks,” have been blatantly worse? I get that she was trying to be all diplomatic and shit, but she went from overly coy to overly hostile in about a microsecond. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_John\_Marcej](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Richard\_John\_Marcej](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_John_Marcej)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-12-lost-horizon-open-spoilers/719190/94 "2015-05-05T19:05:14Z")
Reading a lot of the comments about Joan’s handling of this situation seems to be selling her short, IMO. If Joan had taken the steps, legally, besides the attorney and court fees out of her pocket I believe she’d have a lot more to lose. Remember, this was 1970. America had enough of a problem trying to understand how a fictional character, Mary Richards, could “make it on her own” on The Mary Tyler Moore Show, let alone accepting women in the REAL work place. Joan had to know that if she took them to court what would stop them from using her past to shame her? Remember, she had a long lasting affair with her boss (Sterling) and had sex with a client to allow them to get Jaguar. Yes, it wasn’t cut and dried, but on the surface it would look and sound as if she was promiscuous, to climb the corporate ladder. I believe, no matter how disgusted we here in 2015 feel, that Joan did the wisest thing she could do for herself and her son, in 1970 America. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-12-lost-horizon-open-spoilers/719190/95 "2015-05-05T19:29:09Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Would her saying “I have a boyfriend and a son. Thanks but no, thanks,” have been blatantly worse? I get that she was trying to be all diplomatic and shit, but she went from overly coy to overly hostile in about a microsecond. I’m pretty sure the guy looking for “fun” had a wife & kids at home. Why should he care about her “boyfriend”? She’s twice divorced & shacking up wasn’t respectable back then. Joan’s work had already gotten her a pretty good nest egg; she’s bought some nice clothes but still lives in That Apartment. Even at 50 cents on a dollar, the final payout would be a tidy sum in 1970 terms. Joan got out of a poisonous atmosphere that was never going to improve. For her–cute, smart Peggy can hack it for a few years. And Joan\* did \*take her Rolodex… ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-12-lost-horizon-open-spoilers/719190/96 "2015-05-05T19:45:24Z")
I’m not so sure about Peggy — “that’s not going to last”? Are they already plotting her ouster? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-12-lost-horizon-open-spoilers/719190/97 "2015-05-05T19:50:49Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > And Joan\* did \*take her Rolodex… Yes, that was rather pointed. It could be that Weiner et al. will do something with that before the end. Or, it could be nothing more than a sort of gift to those who wish that character (Joan) a future filled with interesting options. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-12-lost-horizon-open-spoilers/719190/98 "2015-05-05T19:56:51Z")
Given that McCann is a real world firm, are there any limits to how badly they can be portrayed on Mad Men? Could the firm take successful legal action if they felt they were portrayed unfairly and it hurt their business? ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-12-lost-horizon-open-spoilers/719190/99 "2015-05-05T20:05:51Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Given that McCann is a real world firm, are there any limits to how badly they can be portrayed on Mad Men? Could the firm take successful legal action if they felt they were portrayed unfairly and it hurt their business? I wonder if they don’t find it a compliment / get a kick out of it. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-12-lost-horizon-open-spoilers/719190/100 "2015-05-05T20:19:23Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > I wonder if they don’t find it a compliment / get a kick out of it. I know that in the past, they’ve taken out ads in WSJ and written tweets having fun with it. But what if people started equating the TV version with the real McCann and business fell off, could they do anything about it? I’ve always wondered that about the real brands that they use on the show, are there any copyright protections for a real product in a work of fiction? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-12-lost-horizon-open-spoilers/719190.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-7-12-lost-horizon-open-spoilers/719190.md?page=6)