# Mad-Men season 3 premiere, Out of Town; (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 16, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-season-3-premiere-out-of-town-open-spoilers/506658 "2009-08-16T20:46:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-season-3-premiere-out-of-town-open-spoilers/506658/21 "2009-08-17T16:25:09Z")
> [@jellyblue](#): > > …If Betty was in college, yes, but a suburban housewife - I don’t think so. At least not familiar enough to joke around about her daughter… Betty did go to Wellesley. ---
**Author:** ![jellyblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e480ec/32.png) [@jellyblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jellyblue)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-season-3-premiere-out-of-town-open-spoilers/506658/22 "2009-08-17T16:29:59Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Betty did go to Wellesley. In that case, I take it back \*completely. \*😃 ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-season-3-premiere-out-of-town-open-spoilers/506658/23 "2009-08-17T16:40:10Z")
Some random thoughts on the season opener: [ul] [li]Not only does Pete not deserve Peggy, but he doesn’t deserve Trudy either. His emo reaction to the Brits’ (admittedly underhanded) stunt brought back horrible flashbacks of his deliberately unsympathetic character on Angel. Admittedly I was already thinking of that series because the competing-for-status game the Brits are playing is just something that would happen at Wolfram & Hart, only with less murder. Which is in itself a pity, as Pete needs to be fed to alligators for the good of America.[/li][li]I was really hoping that Don would not cheat with the stewardess. I un derstand the virtue of making his character dichotomous and conflicted, but nonetheless I hated when he was with the stewardess. Nonetheless, I did like (in an artistic sense) the fact that he was doing it under his brother-in-law’s name.[/li][li]I want more Peggy and Joan interaction. Well, actually I want more Peggy, period. But I don’t want her to have a romance, unless it’s part of her subversion of gender roles.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-season-3-premiere-out-of-town-open-spoilers/506658/24 "2009-08-17T16:50:34Z")
> [@jellyblue](#): > > I also wondered if Betty knew _immediately_ what Don having those wings meant and just seamlessly glossed it over. He looked so stricken while he was remembering his daughter’s birth. I wonder if any of this stuff came up for him at all when he was having his two other kids. My guess was that Don wasn’t around (out of town or whatever) when Sally was born, which is why he was vague on the details. As for his conversation with Sal on the return flight, it was so oblique that I didn’t get at all that he was suggesting a campaign aimed at flashers. I’ll need to pay attention when I watch the episode again. ---
**Author:** ![SaharaTea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SaharaTea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaharaTea)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-season-3-premiere-out-of-town-open-spoilers/506658/25 "2009-08-17T17:34:46Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > My guess was that Don wasn’t around (out of town or whatever) when Sally was born, which is why he was vague on the details. I think he was around for his daughter’s birth, it just pained him to recall it because the circumstances were so “normal” compared to his own birth. ---
**Author:** ![h.sapiens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e0b2c6/32.png) [@h.sapiens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/h.sapiens)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-season-3-premiere-out-of-town-open-spoilers/506658/26 "2009-08-17T17:51:10Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > My guess was that Don wasn’t around (out of town or whatever) when Sally was born, which is why he was vague on the details. > > As for his conversation with Sal on the return flight, it was so oblique that I didn’t get at all that he was suggesting a campaign aimed at flashers. I’ll need to pay attention when I watch the episode again. To tell the truth, I didn’t quite get what he was describing on the plane, but Sal’s sketch of the ad that they showed later made it clear. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-season-3-premiere-out-of-town-open-spoilers/506658/27 "2009-08-17T18:15:17Z")
> [@h.sapiens](#): > > To tell the truth, I didn’t quite get what he was describing on the plane, but Sal’s sketch of the ad that they showed later made it clear. What was the tag line? Limit your exposure? Clever way for Don to tell Sal to be discreet. I agree that the London Fog ad is a bit overboard for 1962/63, but my memory might be hazy about what was considered risque and what wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![jellyblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e480ec/32.png) [@jellyblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jellyblue)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-season-3-premiere-out-of-town-open-spoilers/506658/28 "2009-08-17T18:30:25Z")
> [@SaharaTea](#): > > I think he was around for his daughter’s birth, it just pained him to recall it because the circumstances were so “normal” compared to his own birth. That’s an interesting take on it. He does have a really painful life story. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-season-3-premiere-out-of-town-open-spoilers/506658/29 "2009-08-17T18:43:43Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > What was the tag line? Limit your exposure? Clever way for Don to tell Sal to be discreet. > > I agree that the London Fog ad is a bit overboard for 1962/63, but my memory might be hazy about what was considered risque and what wasn’t. There was a scene early in the episode where they (I think Don and Sal) were looking at a whiskey ad in a magazine and commenting a bit about how risque things were getting. The ad had the guy holding a giant bottle and made reference to men and size, if I recall. ---
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-season-3-premiere-out-of-town-open-spoilers/506658/30 "2009-08-17T19:10:26Z")
When I saw the mock-up that Sal had created based on Don’s description, I thought he had misunderstood what Don was going for. I can’t imagine Don thought it would be a good idea to associate his client’s 40-year history of selling quality raincoats with a subway flasher. It might be a sketch Don, Roger, and a couple other account guys might have a chuckle over as a joke, but I’d be really surprised if they actually presented it to the client. Especially considering the fact that the image of the flasher contradicts the tagline “Limit your exposure”, as well as the thinly-veiled advice Don was giving to Sal. Opening up your jacket and showing people everything you have on display is diametrically opposed to the rules by which Don has lived his life. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-season-3-premiere-out-of-town-open-spoilers/506658/31 "2009-08-17T19:50:52Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I agree that the London Fog ad is a bit overboard for 1962/63, but my memory might be hazy about what was considered risque and what wasn’t. Maybe they intended the ad to run only in _Playboy_ or, perhaps the _New Yorker_. Sorry, that’s the best I can do. It would’ve been out of line anywhere else in 1963. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-season-3-premiere-out-of-town-open-spoilers/506658/32 "2009-08-17T20:30:32Z")
> [@SaharaTea](#): > > I think he was around for his daughter’s birth, it just pained him to recall it because the circumstances were so “normal” compared to his own birth. He’d have driven Betty to the hospital, then sat in a waiting room with the other fathers until a nurse showed him his newborn daughter from behind a glass window. Betty would’ve so drugged up she probally doesn’t remember much of the birth itself (& what she does remember she sure as hell isn’t going to tell Sally anytime soon). [QUOTE=jellyblue] …Her secretary wouldn’t have been caught dead chatting up that guy unapologetically if Peggy were a male boss. And she certainly wouldn’t have expected him to relate! It’s not just male expectations and limitations she has to confront - it’s women’s too… [/QUOTE] Don’t forget that Peggy was a secretary herself. She knows _exactly_ what it’s like to sit out there and what’s expected of a secretary. She’d never have dreamed of acting like Lola. Her expectations are probally higher than any of the men, but because she’s a women it just comes off as being an bitch (which was what Joan was thinking in the lobby). Joan was right when correct a girl “It’s not Peggy, it’s _Miss Olsen_”. Peggy isn’t their peer; she’s their superior. What’s up with Moneypenny? Were male secretaries common in the UK then? :dubious: Does he have the same duties as his female counterparts (he said he didn’t type)? ---
**Author:** ![h.sapiens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e0b2c6/32.png) [@h.sapiens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/h.sapiens)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-season-3-premiere-out-of-town-open-spoilers/506658/33 "2009-08-17T20:44:26Z")
I take it that John (sorry, Mr. Hooker) sees himself as more of what we would call an executive assistant, rather than a simple clerical worker like the rest of the secretaries at Sterling Cooper. He doesn’t type correspondence (probably doesn’t even know how to touch-type) or take dictation. He probably answers the phone and keeps the boss’s calendar, though. Picking up the dry cleaning would be right out. I enjoyed his crack about the company being a “gynocracy”. He _really_ resents Joan. ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-season-3-premiere-out-of-town-open-spoilers/506658/34 "2009-08-18T03:43:07Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Betty did go to Wellesley. No, she went to Bryn Mawr (as did I and as did Maggie Siff, who played Rachel Menken). And the show got it wrong when they said Betty was in a sorority – there have never been sororities at Bryn Mawr. Edit: Also, this should not change your impression of where Betty learned about lesbianism 😉 ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-season-3-premiere-out-of-town-open-spoilers/506658/35 "2009-08-18T03:54:01Z")
Ooh, I found [this article](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/22/magazine/22madmen-t.html?pagewanted=6&_r=1&sq&st=nyt%22%22mad%20men&scp=3), where Weiner acknowledges the error: > [@](#): > > “The second one was that Betty went to Bryn Mawr, and she talks about being in a sorority, and there are no sororities there. Bryn Mawr was very militant. I feel Betty was part of the shallow end of it because she grew up out there, that was a local school for her. She’s Main Line, King of Prussia or one of those towns. But Maggie Siff, who played Rachel Menken” — the Jewish department-store heiress — “went to Bryn Mawr, and she said that’s wrong.” He sighed. “You do what you can.” The rest of the article is fantastic and I love reading about how intent they are in being period accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-season-3-premiere-out-of-town-open-spoilers/506658/36 "2009-08-18T11:06:09Z")
I think Don’s angst this episode revolved around the fact that it was his birthday and no one knew it, because all his life he had to celebrate Don Draper’s birthday instead of Dick Whitman’s. So he picks up a stewardess and tells her, and we get the line, “Can I see your driver’s license?” and Don/Dick saying, “That won’t help.” This highlighted for me the strangeness and multiple lives he’s trying to lead. In that moment he was Dick Whitman pretending to be Don Draper pretending to be Bill Hofstadt, only able to celebrate or even acknowledge his own birthday because of his layers of anonymity in that moment. How far away he is from his true self. He’s the ideal traveling companion for Sal, who is also only able to enjoy his real inclinations because of anonymity and being away from home. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-season-3-premiere-out-of-town-open-spoilers/506658/37 "2009-08-18T11:29:12Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > In that moment he was Dick Whitman pretending to be Don Draper pretending to be Bill Hofstadt,… So, this wasn’t a good episode for someone who’d never seen the show before, huh? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-season-3-premiere-out-of-town-open-spoilers/506658/38 "2009-08-18T16:12:10Z")
> [@jellyblue](#): > > That’s an interesting take on it. He does have a really painful life story. I think he was probably cheating on his wife the day his daughter was born. He said to his daughter, “it was the middle of the night, and I had just got home from work.” He left his very pregnant wife home alone until all hours. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-season-3-premiere-out-of-town-open-spoilers/506658/39 "2009-08-18T17:06:59Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I think he was probably cheating on his wife the day his daughter was born. He said to his daughter, “it was the middle of the night, and I had just got home from work.” He left his very pregnant wife home alone until all hours. This is what I inferred as well. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2009, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-season-3-premiere-out-of-town-open-spoilers/506658/40 "2009-08-18T19:17:25Z")
This episode is the first I’ve ever seen of Mad-Men and it may well have hooked me. Even without knowing all the history it seemed clever. Now I read that there’s even more to it than that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-season-3-premiere-out-of-town-open-spoilers/506658.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-season-3-premiere-out-of-town-open-spoilers/506658.md?page=3)