# Mad Men - "Shut the door. Have a seat." - (Spoilers after airing) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 8, 2009, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852 "2009-11-08T23:14:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Dorothea\_Book](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dorothea\_Book](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorothea_Book)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/221 "2009-11-13T16:15:01Z")
It’s also not just that the ex-wife dumped this (supposedly) beloved dog on him out of the blue; she did so because her new husband is allergic to dogs. This makes the dog and Duck somewhat alike–the wife has shed both of them and seems to be thriving for it. So, yes, I think he doesn’t want the dog around to remind him of his failed marriage and the fact that he’s been somewhat handily replaced. And with the dog not watching him he will doubtless, as **DianaG** surmises, drown his sorrows in a bottle. One could almost feel sorry for Duck if it weren’t so painful to watch his abjection… ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/222 "2009-11-13T16:15:29Z")
I’m responding to the implication that the objections to Duck are solely or mostly because of the way he looks. I’m failing to see that in the comments. > [@DianaG](#): > > If we can let go of the dog for a second, is Duck really so much worse a guy than Don, or Roger, or Pete? No, and I didn’t like Peggy with Pete and hope she doesn’t end up sleeping with Don or Roger. None of them is a good romantic partner for Peggy for their various jerkish ways. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/223 "2009-11-13T16:21:48Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > I didn’t like Peggy with Pete and hope she doesn’t end up sleeping with Don or Roger. None of them is a good romantic partner for Peggy for their various jerkish ways. I concur. My argument has never been that Duck is a \*good \*romantic partner for Peggy, just that he’s not necessarily a \*worse \*one than anyone else they could have paired her up with. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/224 "2009-11-13T16:43:49Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Isn’t it unlikely that Greg (Joan’s husband) will be injured in Vietnam? Wouldn’t his unit be well behind the front lines? There were no front lines in Vietnam. Mortar attacks anywhere. Bombs were snuck into US facilities regularly. The Tet Offensive (in 1968) showed how everywhere, even the US embassy in Saigon, was vulnerable. There were no front lines. No one would be safe. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/225 "2009-11-13T16:58:15Z")
> [@astro](#): > > I see where you are coming from, but Don (IMO) is not a partially sympathetic character at this point. After 3 seasons of moral cowardice, identity theft, cheating, lying and repeated attempts to abandon his family, whatever his other strengths Don is something a moral turd. A complex and conflicted turd, but still a turd. The more insight we get into Don’s character the less attractive he becomes. His character is compelling due to the involved character development but I don’t see him as “sympathetic”. Actually, I don’t even find _Peggy_ to be all that sympathetic, particularly after she 1. Did not tell Pete about her pregnancy, nor that he was the father, and then 2. Dropped that bombshell on Pete only after it was too late for him to do anything about it, and 3. Did so when Pete was particularly emotionally vulnerable It was a dick move on her part. Not that Pete didn’t have it coming, karmically, but that’s still no excuse. Basically every character in this show – except, maybe, Carla – is a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/226 "2009-11-13T17:01:45Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Official prediction for next season: > > Dr. Rape gets blowed up in 'Nam, and Sterling dumps the trollop for Joan. Greg’s a combat surgeon, not a field medic. ftg’s right about him not being entirely safe, but doctors did have a much lower death toll than infantry. Besides if the show only skips ahead a couple of months like we think it will it’ll still be pretty early in (America’s involvment) the war. The Gulf of Tonkin Incident doesn’t happen until August. My WAG is that this is just a way of getting him out of the picture (essentially turning him into an unseen character) so Joan can get back into the office. [QUOTE=Sampiro] I wonder if a man in Roger’s position in 1963 would have had a prenup. Anyone know if they were common for have/have-not marriages? [/QUOTE] New York’s not a community property state. Based on Roger’s conversations with his divorce attorney it seems that at that time his wife would have not have been able to claim any of his assets, but would be entitled to alimony. The reason why he had to give Mona so much money (& selling Sterling-Cooper) wasn’t because she had anly legal claim on it. It was because he had no grounds to divorce her. He had to bribe her to fly to Reno and divorce him (presumably for adultery). ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/227 "2009-11-13T17:07:46Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Actually, I don’t even find _Peggy_ to be all that sympathetic, particularly after she > > 1. Did not tell Pete about her pregnancy, nor that he was the father, and then > 2. Dropped that bombshell on Pete only after it was too late for him to do anything about it, and > 3. Did so when Pete was particularly emotionally vulnerable > > It was a dick move on her part. Not that Pete didn’t have it coming, karmically, but that’s still no excuse. > > Basically every character in this show – except, maybe, Carla – is a jerk. I’m lost, who is Carla? Harry Crane & Bertram Cooper seem to avoid the jerk category. Even Lane Pryce does not seem to a jerk, he’s just British. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/228 "2009-11-13T17:13:47Z")
Carla is the Draper’s maid. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/229 "2009-11-13T17:14:21Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > I’m lost, who is Carla? > > Harry Crane & Bertram Cooper seem to avoid the jerk category. Even Lane Pryce does not seem to a jerk, he’s just British. Carla, the Drapers’ maid. Harry is the one who overlooked Joan completely on the great job she was doing with the tv scripts. And he’s kinda crap about his own tv-watching duties. And he’s right there with the other boys when it comes to pranking Peggy. Maybe not a jerk, but he’s a clueless man-child. (edit) Forgot, but didn’t Harry cheat on his wife, too? Bert… nothing comes to mind, at the moment, actually. Lane has been being the weasels’ weasel, playing along with putting Pete & Cosgrove into competition, chivvying the rest of Sterling-Cooper at the behest of Mr. Scheffield in the UK, and just recently tossed out whatever chance his wife ever would have had of going back to her beloved England because he wasn’t satisfied with his job. So, Carla and Bert, then. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/230 "2009-11-13T17:20:40Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > I’m lost, who is Carla? > > Harry Crane & Bertram Cooper seem to avoid the jerk category. Even Lane Pryce does not seem to a jerk, he’s just British. Crane is forward thinking re TV, but personality wise he is an absolute worm and (per the Sal debacle) apparently has relatively little common sense re handling clients. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/231 "2009-11-13T17:33:45Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Actually, I don’t even find _Peggy_ to be all that sympathetic, particularly after she > > 1. Did not tell Pete about her pregnancy, nor that he was the father, and then > 2. Dropped that bombshell on Pete only after it was too late for him to do anything about it, and > 3. Did so when Pete was particularly emotionally vulnerable > > It was a dick move on her part. Not that Pete didn’t have it coming, karmically, but that’s still no excuse. > > Basically every character in this show – except, maybe, Carla – is a jerk. Tru dat. Peggy may be an advertising natural but like Don she is very compartmentalized. It’s odd how she’s somewhat stiff and clumsy and (mostly not always) quite prim in the way she engages her co-workers, but there is this undercurrent of voracious sexuality that is barely being held in check, and Peggy doesn’t always make good decisions when she lets her pussy do her thinking. If she had a good opportunity I think she would have gone after that Priest, but her horrible, jealous sister messed that up. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/232 "2009-11-13T18:38:07Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Actually, I don’t even find _Peggy_ to be all that sympathetic, particularly after she > > 1. Did not tell Pete about her pregnancy, nor that he was the father, and then > 2. Dropped that bombshell on Pete only after it was too late for him to do anything about it, and > 3. Did so when Pete was particularly emotionally vulnerable Let’s not forget that this all happened because she slept with Peter knowing that he was getting married the next day. I found Peggy to be a very unlikeable person in the first season, acting as though she was “above” the moral failings of the SC staff while she was carrying Pete’s lovechild, and it’s taken me this long to just not actively dislike her. She’s as much of a shit as anyone else but lacking Don’s flair or Roger’s wit to make up for it from an “entertaining character” aspect. As for Duck, I’m not a woman and I don’t have an “Ewww!” reaction but, in my estimation, Duck’s a loser. He was bouncing from agency to agency before landing at SC, right before the PPL takeover Duck was getting dressed down by Roger for failing to achieve any of the goals Duck promised (in fact, Duck’s bungling _cost_ SC accounts) and blew his chances of running SC because of ineptitude (not knowing Don wasn’t under contract) and sheer childishness (throwing a hissy fit in front of everyone and making it obvious that taking Don down was ever-so-important to him). Managing to get a job at Gray doesn’t make him any less of a loser than getting a job at SC made him less of a failure. I suppose the meta-show line (i.e. Weiner’s blog or whatever) might be that Duck’s cleaned up but, from just watching the show, there’s nothing about Duck that’d make me want to be involved with the dork. And that’s ignoring the dog. Anyway, while cueing the video tape last night to tape something after it, I caught the end of the last episode again. Don’s look as he watched Pete and Trudy interact in the hotel room and then Don got up to call Betty was something I didn’t appreciate the first time around. As I said before, someday I need to get the whole series and give it another watch through just for the little things I missed. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/233 "2009-11-13T19:08:38Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Anyway, while cueing the video tape last night to tape something after it, I caught the end of the last episode again. Don’s look as he watched Pete and Trudy interact in the hotel room and then Don got up to call Betty was something I didn’t appreciate the first time around. As I said before, someday I need to get the whole series and give it another watch through just for the little things I missed. These scenes were very subtle. I missed this (Trudy = good wife \> spontaneous sandwiches) (Betty = bad wife \> no sandwiches) = (let her go to Reno) equation the first watching, but I can see how it makes sense . ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/234 "2009-11-13T19:11:11Z")
All I took from that scene was Don being reminded that he also had a wife, and that he needed to let her know how to reach him. It was telling that she didn’t ask him why he was working out of a hotel. Was it because she didn’t care or because she thought he would lie about it? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/235 "2009-11-13T19:23:00Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > All I took from that scene was Don being reminded that he also had a wife Yeah, it wasn’t anything super deep or whatever but it was obvious that he was affected by seeing the Campbells interacting happily and realizing that he had to call Betty. I just missed the moment. Speaking of, however I feel about Peggy the character, Elisabeth Moss does a superb job of acting through expression. There was an episode a few weeks ago (the Hilton ad meeting one?) where she had like three lines in the episode but, in each scene she was in as a background character, you knew exactly what she was thinking. I did wonder whether or not Betty had any clue what was going on at Sterling Cooper. I guess the need to tell her was partially negated by Don, Roger & Bert not needing to withdraw a couple million from their savings accounts (or desk drawers) to repurchase it from PPL. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/236 "2009-11-13T19:47:13Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > … It was telling that she didn’t ask him why he was working out of a hotel. Was it because she didn’t care or because she thought he would lie about it? Although there’s really no support for it, my assumption is that she didn’t ask because she is still being childish. She’s angry at him, and is “punishing” him. Basically, she’s in “Oh, what_ever_, Don. I’m _so_ over this.” mode. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/237 "2009-11-13T20:48:47Z")
My season 4 wishes: Peter and Trudy go dancing again. Henry turns out to be even more manipulative than Don ever was. Somehow, someway, Sal comes back. I don’t care how they do it, I want him back. Peggy finds true love. Don realizes the teacher is no longer interested in him because he’s not married (I’m assuming he’ll go over there again?) The teacher’s brother shows up again. Joan sleeps with Roger again, but won’t end her marriage for him. What else? ---
**Author:** ![Katriona](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/katriona/32/113_2.png) [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/238 "2009-11-13T20:52:57Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > If I have learned nothing else from watching old movies, for a NY divorce you have to go to Reno and not step one foot out of Nevada for 6 weeks, otherwise you have to start the process from scratch. It’s a frequent plot point. I’d love to see Betty have to sit tight at one of those ranches (a la The Women) and let Rosalind Russell take a crack at her. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/239 "2009-11-13T21:03:30Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > Don realizes the teacher is no longer interested in him because he’s not married (I’m assuming he’ll go over there again?) > > The teacher’s brother shows up again. > > Joan sleeps with Roger again, but won’t end her marriage for him. I don’t see the pretty teacher showing up again or therefore the brother. I agree Joan and Roger will be back together and neither will plan to break up. ---
**Author:** ![LVBoPeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/858c86/32.png) [@LVBoPeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LVBoPeep)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/240 "2009-11-13T21:13:12Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > I don’t see the pretty teacher showing up again or therefore the brother. > > I agree Joan and Roger will be back together and neither will plan to break up. If the brother doesn’t show up again, at least, then what is the signifcance of Don giving him his card? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852.md?page=13)