# Mad Men - "Shut the door. Have a seat." - (Spoilers after airing) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 8, 2009, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852 "2009-11-08T23:14:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/41 "2009-11-09T11:06:02Z")
> [@Kid\_A](#): > > Love that Betty left the kids with Carla over Christmas so she can head out to Reno to get the divorce. I think that’s Chapter 26 in “How Not to be a Parent” by Betty Draper. Real classy. Seriously. It can’t wait until after Christmas break? I wonder if she even told Don she was going. If so, why not at least have him stay at the house with the kids? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/42 "2009-11-09T11:12:47Z")
Missed the edit window Another great moment; Kinsey realizing what’s happened, opening Peggy’s door to find that her things are gone, and cursing. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/43 "2009-11-09T12:03:04Z")
For my money, Hilton is the most cryptic character on the show. He’s always catching Don wrong footed. I wonder if his meeting was also an indication for Don that he should strike out on his own? But when Cooper and Sterling asked Don if he could bring Hilton along didn’t he say no? Another interesting subject will be whether Draper can keep it in his pants long enough for the divorce to come through. Also, in real life, I’d be surprised if a lot of the new firm’s cash didn’t get immediately tied up in litigation. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/44 "2009-11-09T13:18:06Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > Another interesting subject will be whether Draper can keep it in his pants long enough for the divorce to come through. Given the time jump we’ve seen between seasons, and the lawyer’s statement that you only had to spend six weeks in Reno _and_ Don saying he wouldn’t fight her _and_ Henry Francis saying they weren’t going to go after Don’s house/money, you’d expect Season 4 will pick up with them already divorced. If they’re not, I guess something went pretty wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Dorothea\_Book](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dorothea\_Book](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorothea_Book)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/45 "2009-11-09T14:53:07Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Loved that line. I’ve always thought Peggy Draper had a ring to it; I see a romance for them. Oh gosh I hope not! ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/46 "2009-11-09T15:06:49Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > For my money, Hilton is the most cryptic character on the show. He’s always catching Don wrong footed. I wonder if his meeting was also an indication for Don that he should strike out on his own? But when Cooper and Sterling asked Don if he could bring Hilton along didn’t he say no? I’d say no too. The Hilton account is a prestigious time suck. Sure it looks great but when your primary focus in striking out on your own is to hustle up as much business as you can carry to keep yourself afloat, you can’t afford getting calls at 3 AM because your client has insomnia and wants to have a drink with you in his Timbuctoo resort. Don worked with Connie for months and it didn’t seem as if they’d gotten much past the wooing stage (if even that). I don’t think Hilton was that profitable for Sterling Cooper. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/47 "2009-11-09T15:17:42Z")
Is my interpretation of the flashbacks correct? Don was considering striking out on his own but realized that he really did need other people – that being selfish doesn’t get you anywhere for very long? ---
**Author:** ![Dorothea\_Book](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dorothea\_Book](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorothea_Book)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/48 "2009-11-09T15:44:00Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > Is my interpretation of the flashbacks correct? Don was considering striking out on his own but realized that he really did need other people – that being selfish doesn’t get you anywhere for very long? That is a really interesting question **AuntiePam**. I think initially it’s about his father’s rebelling against being taken in, which separates Whitman from the passive pack. But only gradually does it become clear that this individual rebellion comes at too great a price–the family won’t survive his stubbornness. And the argument between Whitman and his wife is also an analogue for various problems in Don’s marriage (complete with illegitimate Dick listening in). But then it all ends tragically: he’s drunk, the horse kicks, Dick can’t do anything but watch helplessly. All along we’ve watched Don feeling as though his past would suck him down so much so that he had to deny it, escape it, and invent himself anew in order to be successful (at least in the ways in which he _is_ successful). So I think the flashbacks say that Don both is and isn’t like his father. And, yeah, I think you’re right that the reaching out to Cooper and the rapprochement with Roger and eventually Peggy do show some real growth in the character; as opposed to the reflex to simply run away and escape (from the past, from who he is, from failures of one kind or another). ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/49 "2009-11-09T15:52:12Z")
Wow. Just wow. Okay, I skimmed the thread, so maybe this has been answered…how the hell was what they were doing _legal_? Since they’re owned by PPL (for now) I don’t see how they can just bust into doors and steal files and logos and such. I knew this was a way to get Joanie back, but since Lucky Strike is still their biggest client, I don’t see how Sal is going to come back. I loved Trudy off camera, “Peter? May I speak to you for a moment?” Hee hee hee. I’m glad they got Harry to jump ship…he’s underappreciated. So Don saw his father die right in front of him. Again, wow. I’m glad Don came back to Peggy after she initially turned him down. I wonder if she’ll still be boinking Duck? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Weird\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@The\_Weird\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Weird_One)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/50 "2009-11-09T15:54:18Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Given the time jump we’ve seen between seasons, and the lawyer’s statement that you only had to spend six weeks in Reno _and_ Don saying he wouldn’t fight her _and_ Henry Francis saying they weren’t going to go after Don’s house/money, you’d expect Season 4 will pick up with them already divorced. If they’re not, I guess something went pretty wrong. Yeah, this certainly isn’t an amicable divorce, but it doesn’t look like it’ll be messy, either. Betty’s pretty foolish to get remarried so quickly, and I think it’s pretty clear that she’s only enamored of Henry Francis because he wants her, and she wants to be wanted. Once they settle into their marriage, I doubt Betty will be any happier than she was with Don. I really hope that Sterling-Draper-Cooper-Pryce finds some way to hire Sal back, but I’m not sure how they could manage it while keeping the Lucky Strike account. It’s too bad the show probably won’t last long enough to place Sal at the Stonewall Riots in '69. ---
**Author:** ![SanibelMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@SanibelMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanibelMan)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/51 "2009-11-09T16:22:00Z")
I have a question on the whole divorce thing: Why can’t she just annul the marriage since Don Draper isn’t really Don Draper? The real Don Draper is dead, and she has (or at least had, at one point) evidence of that. Surely if the name on the marriage certificate was a false one, then the marriage could be annulled, right? Why didn’t the lawyer offer that as a possibility? ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/52 "2009-11-09T16:27:58Z")
> [@The\_Weird\_One](#): > > Yeah, this certainly isn’t an amicable divorce, but it doesn’t look like it’ll be messy, either. Betty’s pretty foolish to get remarried so quickly, and I think it’s pretty clear that she’s only enamored of Henry Francis because he wants her, and she wants to be wanted. Once they settle into their marriage, I doubt Betty will be any happier than she was with Don. Yes, Betty is making the same mistake with Henry Francis that she originally made with Don. I predict next season her storyline will focus on her discontent with her new choice, probably moving toward a rapproachment with Don. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/53 "2009-11-09T16:29:48Z")
I also think it is the perfect comeuppance for Don “Stop Talking” Draper to hear that everyone knows Betty is having an affair. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/54 "2009-11-09T16:34:21Z")
> [@SanibelMan](#): > > I have a question on the whole divorce thing: Why can’t she just annul the marriage since Don Draper isn’t really Don Draper? The real Don Draper is dead, and she has (or at least had, at one point) evidence of that. Surely if the name on the marriage certificate was a false one, then the marriage could be annulled, right? Why didn’t the lawyer offer that as a possibility? I don’t think he wants to be revealed, and besides, they have three children. I think it’s a bit late for an annulment. ---
**Author:** ![jellyblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e480ec/32.png) [@jellyblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jellyblue)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/55 "2009-11-09T16:42:55Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > [snip] > > So Don saw his father die right in front of him. Again, wow. > [snip] I think we also got to see how [del]Dick[/del] Don got to know what horsemeat tastes like. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/56 "2009-11-09T16:44:30Z")
And that would be a scandal for Betty. I’m sure she doesn’t want it known, either. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/57 "2009-11-09T16:44:52Z")
This is great television. This will have not end all wrapped up in a pretty bow, I believe. I think we see SCDP struggling and maybe even failing. Just my hunch. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/58 "2009-11-09T16:52:13Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Given the time jump we’ve seen between seasons, and the lawyer’s statement that you only had to spend six weeks in Reno _and_ Don saying he wouldn’t fight her _and_ Henry Francis saying they weren’t going to go after Don’s house/money, you’d expect Season 4 will pick up with them already divorced. If they’re not, I guess something went pretty wrong. Betty is a fool, of course, but she’s a bigger one if she accepts Francis’s offer to take care of her and forego alimony. To me it was a transparent attempt on his part to put her in a situation where he can better control her. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/59 "2009-11-09T16:52:37Z")
This was a great episode. There were so many great moments that I’m finding it hard to pick standouts. The biggest thing that struck me was that it was the first time when pretty much everyone got to say what was on their minds in a complete and frank way. Don, Cooper, Sterling, Peggy, Pryce and Pete all had some great moments. I especially loved the expressions on Peggy’s face when done came to visit her. A mixture of emotions that said more than any dialog could have said. Good riddance to Betty, but she’ll be back, I think. ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/60 "2009-11-09T16:59:43Z")
If I could have voted “I fucking loved it and think it was the greatest hour of television I have seen in a long. long time” I totally would have. Almost every scene had me biting my fingernails, at the edge of my seat, even (or especially!) all the business talk, which is so funny to me. Who knew watching four middle-aged men sit in an office and talk business could be so thrilling? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852.md?page=4)