# Mad Men - "Shut the door. Have a seat." - (Spoilers after airing) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 8, 2009, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852 "2009-11-08T23:14:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/61 "2009-11-09T17:11:35Z")
They got out of their employment contracts by having Lane Pryce fire them (and then he got fired for doing so), but what about all the paperwork they stole from the office? How will they get away with that? Or will the British parent just close Sterling Cooper and forget about suing them? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Weird\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@The\_Weird\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Weird_One)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/62 "2009-11-09T17:35:39Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Betty is a fool, of course, but she’s a bigger one if she accepts Francis’s offer to take care of her and forego alimony. To me it was a transparent attempt on his part to put her in a situation where he can better control her. It was, but I’m not sure she recognized it as such. Hell, I’m not sure Francis recognized it, either. ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/63 "2009-11-09T18:23:46Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Roger: _Peggy, get me some coffee._ > Peggy: _No_. I loved that! Great episode all around, for all of the reasons that have been mentioned in this thread. As someone who just started watching in September and has more or less caught up completely since then, I can’t believe I have to wait almost a year until I get to see any more! ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/64 "2009-11-09T18:43:00Z")
Okay, did I miss something? I thought Henry truly loved Betty. Why else would he, as an aide to a governor up for re-election, get involved with a married woman, to the point that he’s helping her get divorced? ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/65 "2009-11-09T18:44:24Z")
> [@Kid\_A](#): > > Love that Betty left the kids with Carla over Christmas so she can head out to Reno to get the divorce. I think that’s Chapter 26 in “How Not to be a Parent” by Betty Draper. Real classy. Seriously. No one does that. no one. Even Betty, who is one of the crappiest non-abusive parents\* seen on television shouldn’t walk out on her kids for the six weeks around Christmas. Kicking Don out? sure. Buying the tickets to Reno and having her have a conversation with a travel agent? fine. But this? This was poorly written. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/66 "2009-11-09T18:44:59Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Or will the British parent just close Sterling Cooper and forget about suing them? The British parent company is being bought by McCann so PPL probably doesn’t give a rat’s ass what disappears from SC’s office. The overlord from PPL made it sound like a done deal to Lane so they might already have ink on the contract. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/67 "2009-11-09T18:48:33Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > Okay, did I miss something? I thought Henry truly loved Betty. Why else would he, as an aide to a governor up for re-election, get involved with a married woman, to the point that he’s helping her get divorced? He’s spent a grand total of 6 hours with her (most of which were at parties with other people nearby) and exchanged maybe four phone calls and two letters. He may not be into the whole Romeo & Juliet aspect, but he’s moving at their timeline. The divorce lawyer assumed they were sleeping together; if he’d heard how much time they’d actually spent together and how well they actually know each other, he’d grab Henry and try to talk some sense into him. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/68 "2009-11-09T18:49:59Z")
Great episode, I would love it if they pretty much wrote Betty and the kids out of the show but it is too much too ask. I love the office interactions of the show and do not really enjoy the Draper family part. Trudy is growing as a character and growing on me a little. Best moment for me was Joan coming in and putting everything in order and supervising all. I just love shows with lots of Cooper. He is the best and most likable character on the show, though I know he works best in the small doses they use him. Was this a way to cut costs for the next season? Almost every actor now knows he could be written out with ease. It makes it impossible for most of them to negotiate. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/69 "2009-11-09T18:50:15Z")
Sal can still technically come to work with them. He doesn’t HAVE to work on Lucky Strike. If Don is going out and admitting just how well he likes these kids (Peggy, Pete, Harry) and mustering up the ability to tell them, he can certainly have a realization about Sal too and hire him on. And work to keep him away from Lucky Strike. Heck, he could have/should have done that before instead of firing him. Did they physically take documents for these clients, or did they perhaps take copies? ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/70 "2009-11-09T18:52:57Z")
So I’m sitting there watching a bunch of men and a couple women in an office, talking, spellbound, and I cannot be interrupted by mundane household tasks! My daughter said, you remind me of that Far Side cartoon showing a movie theater full of accountants (watching a movie about The King of Accountants) - WTF? … So? It was remarkably exciting TV! (and it’s on again tonight). ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/71 "2009-11-09T18:57:03Z")
I get irked with reviews that call Don a sociopath or remorseless, and there are several of them (just google sociopath Don Draper). He can be ruthless but he’s not at all remorseless- I think he seriously regrets the damage he’s done to his marriage- and he’s not at all a sociopath: he deeply loves his children, his “former wife” (the other Mrs. Draper), and even Betty to a degree (though I don’t think he’s in love with her anymore than she is with him). Like _Dexter_ he had a traumatic childhood, but unlike Dex it makes him stronger and more appreciative of his success instead of a cold blooded killer. He’s complex but he’s not a total villain; he’s more of a cousin of J.R. Ewing. Peggy’s actually the most remorseless character on the show. Or Kinsey even- the way he’s so self-exonerating over stealing from work and getting secretaries in trouble for it for example- and his holier than thou attitude on everything from “black girlfriend for status symbols” to the Penn Station stand (when it’s clear he’ll work the wrecking ball himself if it means a raise or promotion). ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/72 "2009-11-09T19:00:37Z")
I feel like I’m the only one who was ambivalent about this episode. While I liked the idea of it, and while there were plenty of wonderful moments and quotable lines, it simply seemed too rushed and frequently contrived. Hilton’s telling Don about the coming sale was something of a deus ex machina, for instance. I don’t buy Peggy agreeing to follow Don to the new agency, even though she’s my favorite character and the interactions between the two of them are the best part of the series. Moreover, not only did I understand the reasoning behind her initial refusal, I _agreed_ with it. When she told Don off I was cheering. I think she took a step backward in joining the new agency. What Don said to Peggy was no less bullshit than the line he fed Pete about “You’re the only one who saw this coming.” It was crap. Don wanted the accounts Pete could bring in, but did not truly value him. He did the exact same thing towards the end of last season, when he manipulated Pete into believing that he left him alone in California as a pasage rite rather than because of his own crap. And while I believe Pete would fall for that, I don’t like that Peggy would. > [@What\_Exit](#): > > Was this a way to cut costs for the next season? Almost every actor now knows he could be written out with ease. It makes it impossible for most of them to negotiate. I don’t think so, because the core cast is still intact. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/73 "2009-11-09T19:04:57Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Sal can still technically come to work with them. He doesn’t HAVE to work on Lucky Strike. If Don is going out and admitting just how well he likes these kids (Peggy, Pete, Harry) and mustering up the ability to tell them, he can certainly have a realization about Sal too and hire him on. And work to keep him away from Lucky Strike. > > Heck, he could have/should have done that before instead of firing him. Don didn’t fire Sal; Sterling did. (And Sterling’s action was not malicious, but merely pragmatic. > [@](#): > > Did they physically take documents for these clients, or did they perhaps take copies? I assumed they took the originals, given that all this is occurring in '63 and the volume of paper must have been massive. There’d not have been time to make all the copies they’d have wished given the technology available. ---
**Author:** ![h.sapiens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e0b2c6/32.png) [@h.sapiens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/h.sapiens)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/74 "2009-11-09T19:08:22Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Sal can still technically come to work with them. He doesn’t HAVE to work on Lucky Strike. If Don is going out and admitting just how well he likes these kids (Peggy, Pete, Harry) and mustering up the ability to tell them, he can certainly have a realization about Sal too and hire him on. And work to keep him away from Lucky Strike. > > Heck, he could have/should have done that before instead of firing him. > > Did they physically take documents for these clients, or did they perhaps take copies? They showed the moving guy wheeling out an entire filing cabinet, so I think it must have been the original documents. The artwork they took, which was also probably original, might belong to the clients, or it might be considered work product. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/75 "2009-11-09T19:18:36Z")
> [@h.sapiens](#): > > They showed the moving guy wheeling out an entire filing cabinet, so I think it must have been the original documents. The artwork they took, which was also probably original, might belong to the clients, or it might be considered work product. That artwork belonged to Bert Cooper. When one of the juniors admired the aesthetics of a particular piece, Cooper commented that he generally buys things for their investment value. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/76 "2009-11-09T19:25:57Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > That artwork belonged to Bert Cooper. When one of the juniors admired the aesthetics of a particular piece, Cooper commented that he generally buys things for their investment value. I think \*\*h.sapiens \*\*meant the advertising art work, not the Cooper actual art. Peggy really does like Don Draper and is loyal to him, she just really wanted some respect from him too and thus was willing to change her mind when he came hat in hand. I think it is reasonable and she knows Don will still be Don but at least she has some options. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/77 "2009-11-09T19:31:14Z")
Thinking back on it now I have to laugh that, when Peggy was refusing Don’s offer, Don said he’d have to ask Kurt & Smitty and never mentioned asking Kinsey. ---
**Author:** ![PeacePlease](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/71c47a/32.png) [@PeacePlease](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PeacePlease)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/78 "2009-11-09T19:31:55Z")
All I can say is that that was some freakin’ awesome TV right there. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/79 "2009-11-09T19:59:05Z")
Another great episode. How times have changed - here is Betty and her new beau talking to the lawyer and beau is already telling her he will support her and the kids and she doesn’t need anything else from Don. Unless I am mistaken, so far they have only kissed once and had a few brief conversations? Wow - talk about plunging in on faith alone…that is one hell of a commitment the two of them are making, based solely on their very brief flirtations. Lots of nice touches in this episode - brilliant how they came up with the idea of getting fired over the weekend and clearing everything out before this info hits London offices. Looking forward to next season! ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/80 "2009-11-09T20:00:54Z")
You know what was weird? When Joan said “logo files.” For a second I thought “oh yeah, the original high-res vector graphics files of the company logos, I wonder what format they used back then…” My answer was of course “paper and ink”. How weird is that? Every time you wanted to use a company’s logo you had to … DRAW it! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852.md?page=5)