# Mad Men - "Shut the door. Have a seat." - (Spoilers after airing) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 8, 2009, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852 "2009-11-08T23:14:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/161 "2009-11-10T21:19:01Z")
> [@h.sapiens](#): > > Trudy “going to change the sheets”, everything that came out of Roger’s mouth I’ve seen a couple reviews giggle over Trudy’s “Pete? Can you come in here a moment?” trill from outside the living room (which _was_ good) but, even better in my opinion, was Roger’s casual “Goodbye Trudy” at conversation level to the Trudy he knew was standing in the hallway. Speaking of living rooms, the Draper son (whatever his name is) is pretty worthless and forgettable as a character but “Then why are we in the living room?” was golden. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/162 "2009-11-10T22:06:55Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > ETA: And another perfect song over the end titles. That’s not one of Orbison’s most popular songs. Major kudos to whomever came up with it. Face the future, forget about the past. [Shahdaroba](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QU4e2lxsG_8). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Weird\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@The\_Weird\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Weird_One)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/163 "2009-11-11T00:25:33Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Speaking of living rooms, the Draper son (whatever his name is) is pretty worthless and forgettable as a character but “Then why are we in the living room?” was golden. God, the telling-the-kids-about-the-divorce scene _killed_ me. ☹ It reminded me so much of the talk my folks had with my younger brother and I… except that the Drapers never said the word divorce, did they? Only that Daddy’s moving out. ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/164 "2009-11-11T00:28:53Z")
In case anyone is interested, Best Buy has season 2 (both DVD and Blu-Ray) on sale for $19.99 this week. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/165 "2009-11-11T01:53:32Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > I believe it was “cut off their legs”. No, it was shot themselves in the leg. This stuck out to me because my dad told me that, in Vietnam at least, this was a good way to get yourself sent home. Yeah you were wounded but at least you were no longer in the middle of a goddamn war. Best if no one found out about it, of course. Seems to me that’d be a practice used by any soldier in any war, so if that’s what Roger was talking about, it made sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/166 "2009-11-11T03:01:59Z")
> [@The\_Weird\_One](#): > > Me, too. It’s surprising to see that she and Pete actually make a good couple now that they’ve come to terms on the baby issue. There’s an obvious affection between them that wasn’t there in the earlier seasons. The Charleston (or whatever) they danced at Don’s “Mammy” party was strangely sexy considering there was no dirty dancing involved. [QUOTE=The Weird One] More than any other character in the show, Peggy has really grown and changed. [/quote] It’s the glow of new motherhood.😃 ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/167 "2009-11-11T12:51:22Z")
There’s has been some discussion in other [online forums like the Slate critics conversation](http://www.slate.com/id/2225274/entry/2234998/) about what Don meant when he gave Peggy the “you understand loss” speech. I thought it was fairly overt that he has referring to her baby which she (assumedly) adopted out, [but others don’t see it that way.](http://www.slate.com/id/2225274/entry/2235020/) What was your take on this? > [@](#): > > And, most movingly, there’s Peggy, who bristles when Don assumes she’s along for the ride. “You think I’ll just follow you like some nervous poodle?” she asks. “I don’t want to make a career out of being there so you can kick me when you fail.” There’s a bit of an echo there of Don’s protestation to Hilton—"You wanted to kick me around, knock me down to size, while you called me ‘son’ "—and her words seem to resonate. Don goes back to Peggy with a more elaborate sales pitch, explaining why he needs her: “Because there are people out there who buy things, people like you and me. And something happened, something terrible. And the way that they saw themselves is gone. And nobody understands that. But you do. And that’s very valuable.” > > Question for you guys: What on earth is Don talking about here? The Kennedy assassination? Or some other, more generalized American loss of innocence? Either way, the pitch works; Peggy’s eyes well up with tears when Don tells her that if she doesn’t join up now, “I will spend the rest of my life trying to hire you.” > [@](#): > > To me, Don’s little speech about “people who buy things” was just an elaboration of the Draper philosophy of advertising: The American consumer is afflicted by a gap between life as he or she imagines it should be and life as it actually is. As such, buying things can amount to an aspirational gesture, a quixotic prayer that the right dress or car or cufflinks will transform you from the person you are into the person you want to be. Advertising is a kind of priesthood, ministering to the fallen and holding out the false promise, whatever the widget in question, that you are only ever one cash transaction from a return to grace. Peggy grasps this spiritual undercurrent in her métier, which allows her to harness the potent forces of yearning and nostalgia to move even the most trivial of products. That’s the deep skill Don and Peggy share. And that’s why Draper needs her. ---
**Author:** ![Dorothea\_Book](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dorothea\_Book](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorothea_Book)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/168 "2009-11-11T14:28:37Z")
I think the analysis you posted above is pretty much spot on **astro**. I’d add this: Don knows that Peggy has been through a loss–the pregnancy that he so memorably urges her to forget in order to preserve the kind of future that she wants for herself. Conversely, _she_ knows that he has no one but her to reach out to when he gets in trouble–no real friends in other words–which is his loss (or the part of it that she knows). So they share a bond of loss which informs their work: which consists of selling powerful illusions to empty people. Don is genuinely affected by the expression of feelings of loss. This was supposed to be the basis of his initial interest in Suzanne who was concerned about Sally’s loss of her grandfather and who shared her own feelings about her father’s death. Although the latter was pretty hokey and Suzanne never developed into an interesting character, the idea that Don would be attracted to her empathy for experiences of loss is consistent. ---
**Author:** ![Dorothea\_Book](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dorothea\_Book](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorothea_Book)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/169 "2009-11-11T14:37:41Z")
Just an afterthought. To me the Don/Peggy relationship is one of the coolest things on the show–sometimes _the_ coolest. I loved it, even though it risked obviousness, when he said he thought of her as an extension of himself (and who knows if he really meant it and wasn’t just snowing her but the thing is it’s true whether he actually knows that or not). I’d really hate it if they ever became an item–or even if we were meant to understand that it’s what Peggy wants (which I don’t believe she does). She said during this season that she wants want what he has–which I believe. And he’s now said something that’s been implicit: that he identifies with her struggle to become something. It works… ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/170 "2009-11-11T14:45:27Z")
I’m amazed at all the little things that people are seeing that I missed on first viewing. Pete’s gun, the Clearasil reference, etc. Was the dip platter that Trudy put out the other one they got? What else should I be looking for before I watch it again? ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/171 "2009-11-11T17:45:59Z")
Have we speculated on what Duck is going to do now? Do you think Peggy will keep sleeping with him, letting him “woo” her over to Grey, or is the door shut on that one? I love good television. I love it when everything clicks…the writing, the acting, the sets, the costumes. I haven’t been this thrilled over a show since _West Wing_. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/172 "2009-11-11T17:54:22Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > Have we speculated on what Duck is going to do now? Do you think Peggy will keep sleeping with him, letting him “woo” her over to Grey, or is the door shut on that one? I was kind of surprised to find out that Peggy was still sleeping with Duck. IMHO they quickly got over the notion that he just wanted her as new talent for Grey and they are in a real, honst-to-Og relationship of some sort. I’m convinced they’ll continue their tryst despite Peggy’s new job. The job is a non-issue now. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/173 "2009-11-11T17:56:26Z")
Then I’ll ask the obvious…what the hell does she see in him? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/174 "2009-11-11T18:00:30Z")
As opposed to, say, Pete? Or that kid she picked up that time? I get the impression that the relationship is at least sexually satisfying for her. I don’t think she’s planning on marrying him or anything, but he’ll certainly do as a “for now” guy. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/175 "2009-11-11T18:22:57Z")
Yeah, I still see her as fairly inexperienced. Who hasn’t had a what-the-hell-was-I-thinking relationship in your early 20’s. I don’t see it as anything more than dabbling. And, hell, Don was being a Dick to her. Duck’s at least aware of her talent. Plus she gets laid. And who doesn’t like that? ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/176 "2009-11-11T18:32:03Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > Then I’ll ask the obvious…what the hell does she see in him? Long term, nothing. Near term, sex from a guy who she doesn’t have to pretend to be a secretary around. And I think Duck was dumped seconds after she found out about the Kennedy assassination (or more to the point, after she found out he knew about the assassination and didn’t tell her or let her find out because it might get in the way of the nooner.) ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/177 "2009-11-11T20:20:57Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > Long term, nothing. Near term, sex from a guy who she doesn’t have to pretend to be a secretary around. > > And I think Duck was dumped seconds after she found out about the Kennedy assassination (or more to the point, after she found out he knew about the assassination and didn’t tell her or let her find out because it might get in the way of the nooner.) Though I thought ill of Duck when she first came into the hotel room, I changed my mind when he turned the TV back on. He owned up to having heard the beginning of the report, and I don’t think he knew the details anyway. Had he wished to keep his knowledge from her, he could simply have kept his mouth shut. I doubt she’ll hold that against him. Which is not to say she won’t eventually dump him, but that’ll be when she realizes she’s so freaking hot and can do infinitely better. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/178 "2009-11-11T23:06:44Z")
How does one get a formal nickname like Duck anyhow. The guy’s name was Herman. What about Crab Colson, too? ---
**Author:** ![Dorothea\_Book](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dorothea\_Book](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorothea_Book)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/179 "2009-11-12T00:47:56Z")
**amarinth** I hope you are right. **Skald** , you are generous. 🙂 **DianaG.** and others on this theme: maybe I was just very lucky years ago but am I the only poster here who doesn’t assume that sex with a college student is death of eros? ---
**Author:** ![Dorothea\_Book](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dorothea\_Book](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorothea_Book)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852/180 "2009-11-12T00:50:37Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > How does one get a formal nickname like Duck anyhow. The guy’s name was Herman. What about Crab Colson, too? And wasn’t his big connection at American named “Shell”? Now maybe that was “Shel” as in short for Sheldon. Or maybe it was just another one of these mysterious 60s monikers that visit the Ducks of the world. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mad-men-shut-the-door-have-a-seat-spoilers-after-airing/516852.md?page=10)