# Maddow's explanation of Trump's use of "fascist" **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [November 14, 2023, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116 "2023-11-14T11:57:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/21 "2023-11-14T16:55:54Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > A lot of conservative policy can be boiled down to “I know you are but what am I?” That’s all Trump is capable of. He’s pretty stupid. He can’t come up with any original insults that might work better. So he just hears what people are saying about him (the only time he listens to what people are saying is when they’re talking about him) and uses the same insults back at them. I’m sure Trump has no idea what a fascist actually is. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/22 "2023-11-14T17:00:17Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > I’ve been thinking along similar lines. The world war we fought against fascism ended almost 80 years ago, and I’m not sure most people on either side could accurately define the word beyond knowing that it connotes something bad. > > IMO, we’re better off describing Trump’s and Republicans’ tactics as bigoted, racist, sexist, inhumane, dictatorial and anti-democratic rather than labeling them as fascist. I think there are genuine elements of fascism in Trump’s movement. One of the key elements of fascism is the belief in a leader figure who is superior to other people - and that’s clearly something Trump and his followers see in Trump. There’s also the element of an insider group which is threatened by outside groups, which ties in with the white racism in Trump’s movement. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/23 "2023-11-14T17:05:47Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think there are genuine elements of fascism in Trump’s movement. Oh, I completely agree. He and the MAGAts are playing straight from the list @Kropotkin shared a few posts up. They’re absolutely fascists, or wannabes at the very least. What I’m saying is that I don’t think we get much mileage from _calling_ them fascists, because the danger implied by that term has been watered down over three generations. Other terms (such as bigoted, racist, sexist, inhumane, dictatorial and anti-democratic) have more immediate impact today. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/24 "2023-11-14T17:06:17Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > we’re better off describing Trump’s and Republicans’ tactics as bigoted, racist, sexist, inhumane, dictatorial and anti-democratic rather than labeling them as fascist. Nah. That’s like admitting “We’re the fascists, Trump is an anti-fascist.” But I thought Trump hated Antifa? “Oh, we’re Antifa, not anti-fascist.” ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/25 "2023-11-14T17:17:07Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > That’s like admitting “We’re the fascists, Trump is an anti-fascist.” Huh? I don’t follow the logic. Does failing to swat the increasingly meaningless “fascist” accusation back at the MAGAts mean it automatically adheres to us? ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/26 "2023-11-14T17:18:46Z")
“Trumpism,” or “MAGA” should do since, like Fascism and Nazism, theses are names they’ve self-applied and debased. “Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State”. Since Fascist economic theory demands state control, we can see where the Libertarian supporters of MAGA consider everything and everyone down to County Agent Hank Kimball as part of the “deep state swamp,” exerting Fascist state control over how much pig poop can be dumped into the trout run. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/27 "2023-11-14T17:24:57Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Does failing to swat the increasingly meaningless “fascist” accusation back at the MAGAts mean it automatically adheres to us? If Trump’s calling you “fascists” every day, and you’re accepting that without pushing back, then yeah, after a short while, it will seem like you’re agreeing with him. It’s not meaningless. It has a precise distinct historical meaning and it applies to Trump. By calling the word “meaningless” you’re enabling the exact point of his misuse of the term. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/28 "2023-11-14T17:28:41Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > Nah. That’s like admitting “We’re the fascists, Trump is an anti-fascist.” But I thought Trump hated Antifa? “Oh, we’re Antifa, not anti-fascist.” This is the stupid part I mentioned. Trump will accuse his opponents of being both antifa and fascist at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/29 "2023-11-14T17:33:12Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > If Trump’s calling you “fascists” every day, and you’re accepting that without pushing back, then yeah, after a short while, it will seem like you’re agreeing with him. Sometimes you win by letting the other person think they won. I’d _happily_ let someone think I’m okay with being called a fascist if it meant I didn’t have to discuss the subject with them. Besides, someone making the assumption that I agree with them, doesn’t change anything. It’s not like I’m going to hit the polls next year I think “Biden? Wait, I keep forgetting I’m fascist now, Trump it is”. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/30 "2023-11-14T17:36:20Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > I’d _happily_ let someone think I’m okay with being called a fascist But it’s not you who is Trump’s audience. He’s calling you (and me and Biden and 150 million other Americans) “fascists” to make a few million voters in the middle think that he’s their savior. He couldn’t care less if you’re happy or unhappy with his mislabeling you. Your vote was lost to him a long, long time ago. You’re vermin, and he wants to exterminate you. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/31 "2023-11-14T17:37:51Z")
Then what does it have to do with me not pushing back? ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/32 "2023-11-14T17:39:54Z")
Makes it easier for him to get his point across. “Look, I called Joey P a fascist, and he didn’t say BOO. That means he knows he is a fascist. And he knows I’m not one.” You’re making his point for him. I’m not saying you need to deny it. We all need to roll our eyes in public, and make the succinct argument that he’s a fascist to anyone paying the attention to his proposed policies. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/33 "2023-11-14T17:49:27Z")
The problem, though, is that it comes across to MAGA ears as: “Liberals think the term fascist is a one-way road, like saying that only the Bengals can be guilty of pass interference but the Steelers never can.” Now, of course, the right-wing is more fascist, however, informing people that “Only I am allowed to call you names, you are never allowed to call me the same names” doesn’t generally go over well. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/34 "2023-11-14T17:51:23Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The problem, though, is that it comes across to MAGA ears as: “Liberals think the term fascist is a one-way road, like saying that only the Bengals can be guilty of pass interference but the Steelers never can.” Liberals can certainly do stupid things, and perhaps even dangerous things. But I haven’t seem much advocacy of fascist ideas from American liberals in at least a few generations. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/35 "2023-11-14T17:54:05Z")
They hate BLM, be it Bureau of Land Management or Black Lives Matter. (How could I have missed that trick?) When a white guy on a $1,200 bicycle get pulled over it’s Fascism. When a Black guy in a $1,200 car gets pulled over it’s law and order ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/36 "2023-11-14T17:58:09Z")
I agree. But, telling people, “Only we are allowed to call you Label XYZ and you never get to use Label XYZ back against us” does not have a good track record of compliance. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/37 "2023-11-14T17:59:42Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The problem, though, is that it comes across to MAGA ears as: “Liberals think the term fascist is a one-way road, like saying that only the Bengals can be guilty of pass interference but the Steelers never can.” How come they can call us “liberals” and we can’t call them that? Because it doesn’t make sense? Because words have meaning? Look, we’re not going to be able to persuade all the dumb asses who hate anyone Trump instructs them to hate (including themselves, sometimes)–we’re just struggling to reach a few persuadable, low-information, apolitical people who may (and may not) come out to vote in 2024. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/38 "2023-11-14T18:02:24Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > Makes it easier for him to get his point across. “Look, I called Joey P a fascist, and he didn’t say BOO. That means he knows he is a fascist. And he knows I’m not one.” Then what? What’s going to change? ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/39 "2023-11-14T18:06:47Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > I’m interested to see how Trump will bumble through an answer when reporters start asking him to explain why he’s referring to the left as fascist and anti-fascist. Probably along these lines: > That’s very important,’ the King said, turning to the jury. They were just beginning to write this down on their slates, when the White Rabbit interrupted: ‘UNimportant, your Majesty means, of course,’ he said in a very respectful tone, but frowning and making faces at him as he spoke. ‘UNimportant, of course, I meant,’ the King hastily said, and went on to himself in an undertone, ‘important—unimportant—unimportant—important—’ as if he were trying which word sounded best. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/40 "2023-11-14T18:07:05Z")
How hard is it to use this idiotic point of his to argue that he’s an idiot? I’d just ask someone who repeats it, “Do you want to discuss what ‘fascism’ actually means? I hope not, it’s probably a waste of both our time, but if you do, I can explain how I’m not one and Trump is.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116.md?page=3)