# Maddow's explanation of Trump's use of "fascist" **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [November 14, 2023, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116 "2023-11-14T11:57:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/61 "2023-11-22T06:59:55Z")
Of the various actors involved in Spain’s reversion to democracy, I wouldn’t rate Franco, but that’s another topic. On Eco’s list of features of fascism, I’d gloss the idea of opposition to modernism as more a matter of valuing the simplistic and grandiloquent over the complex, moderate and uncertain. Both fascists and nazis prized _technological_ modernism, the cult of speed and of size - another form of extremism. ---
**Author:** ![hellasketchy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f17d59/32.png) [@hellasketchy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hellasketchy)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/62 "2023-11-22T15:52:02Z")
If you smear your feces on the walls of the Capitol…you might be a fascist! ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/63 "2023-11-22T15:54:06Z")
No! Hitler never smeared his shit on walls, so NOT a fascist. Try harder. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/64 "2023-11-22T17:15:17Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > Of the various actors involved in Spain’s reversion to democracy, I wouldn’t rate Franco, but that’s another topic. I agree. Franco’s main contribution to Spain becoming a democracy was dying. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/65 "2023-11-22T17:21:51Z")
Franco, Mannerheim, Horthy. All authoritarians but not subscribers to the ideological fascist claptrap that was extrapolated from authoritarianism. They had to make their accommodations with Hitler, as Pilsudski and Attaturk would have to had if they’d lived long enough. ETA: the Swedes and the Swiss were not authoritarians and managed to steer clear of Hitler by paying bribes, not blood. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/66 "2023-11-22T18:17:23Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I agree. Franco’s main contribution to Spain becoming a democracy was dying. This just in: [![](https://i.imgflip.com/1e4fjo.jpg) ](https://i.imgflip.com/1e4fjo.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/67 "2023-11-22T21:16:37Z")
Wasn’t it Martin Luther who nailed his 95 feces to the door? ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/68 "2023-11-22T23:26:40Z")
No. He was too constipated. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/69 "2023-11-23T05:06:48Z")
The Dutch just put in the far-right, anti-Islam Party for Freedom (PVV) , and it remains to be seen what coalition it will form. Far Right Populism is springing up all over the place. > **[European far right celebrates as exit poll puts Wilders’ party in front – as...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/nov/22/netherlands-dutch-general-election-vote-result-exit-poll-prime-minister-government-live-latest-result)** > > Voters cast ballots until 9pm in elections that could set country on different course after Mark Rutte’s four consecutive governments ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/70 "2023-11-23T07:16:56Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > He also called people on the left “vermin”, BTW, which probably sounded better in the orignal German. I’ve been inspired to compose a bit of doggerel: The America-hating fuckstick said _If you disagree with me, then you’re vermin._ (Someone should tell the dumb cluck dickhead It sounds better in the original German) ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/71 "2023-11-23T07:22:07Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > a bit of doggerel: Excellent! Although @RitterSport’s post makes for a good couplet: He also called people on the left “vermin.” Probably sounded better in the original German. You could even add a triplet: Got laughs from Goebbels (Joe) and Goering (Herman). ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/72 "2023-11-23T11:35:51Z")
OK, but to give credit where it’s due, I got that from Krugman, who credited Molly Ivins with coining it. I guess accidentally making it into a couplet was mine. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/73 "2023-11-23T11:58:53Z")
Not from folks named Cohen, Lipschitz, and Berman. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/74 "2023-11-23T12:39:14Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > OK, but to give credit where it’s due, I got that from Krugman, who credited Molly Ivins with coining it. I guess accidentally making it into a couplet was mine. IIRC she was referring to Pat Buchanan’s speech at the 1992 Republican National Convention, in which Pat mused about a “cultural war”, to “take back our nation”. Both Bush and Quayle tried to distance themselves from that speech. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/75 "2023-11-23T12:41:44Z")
I would _love_ to go back to the days when that was the worst thing a presidential candidate said! ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/76 "2023-11-24T18:48:16Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > One time visiting at his house when he and his wife went to church, I turned off the blaring FOX so called ‘news’ channel and put on CNN just for something in the background. Well, that didn’t last, as soon as they got home it went immediately back to FOX. Blasphemy! You put on that internal infernal Fake News station. The only thing worse would have been the spawn of Satan MSNBC. > [@F.U.Shakespeare](#): > > IIRC she was referring to Pat Buchanan’s speech at the 1992 Republican National Convention, in which Pat mused about a “cultural war”, to “take back our nation”. Ah, the good old days! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/77 "2023-11-24T19:14:47Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Neither trump nor even DeSantis are actually fascist- altho I grant you both have the capacity and perhaps desire to become that. They’re both fascists. They haven’t yet succeeded in all of their goals, but it’s having those goals that makes them fascist. If you’re going to argue that you’re not an actual fascist until you’ve taken over totalitarian control of your country, then you’d have to conclude that there was only one fascist each in Germany, Italy, Japan, and Spain. Goebbels, Himmler, Goering? They didn’t rule Germany, so they weren’t fascists. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/78 "2023-11-24T19:45:39Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > They haven’t yet succeeded in all of their goals, but it’s having those goals that makes them fascist. Yes. To argue otherwise is simple excuse-making for fascists, and is suspiciously fascistic in itself. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/79 "2023-11-24T20:06:51Z")
Well, as long as they didn’t elect a fascist party it’s not really that bad! ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116/80 "2023-11-24T21:35:40Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > They’re both fascists. They haven’t yet succeeded in all of their goals, but it’s having those goals that makes them fascist. If you’re going to argue that you’re not an actual fascist until you’ve taken over totalitarian control of your country, Well, have they publically espoused a desire or plan to take over totalitarian control of our country? or is that just what we think they would like to do? I mean certainly there is the American Nazi party- they are fascists. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-explanation-of-trumps-use-of-fascist/993116.md?page=5)