# Maddow's Trump Tax Return announcement **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 15, 2017, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204 "2017-03-15T00:29:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/201 "2017-03-21T06:42:15Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I don’t think there’s much in that…I don’t see anything for him to gain in releasing them. (Post shortened with ellipses because that’s how the smart guys do it…) He’s not the one who needs to be reassured, we are. Presumably, he already knows, and he’d prefer we didn’t. Won’t even tell us why. Perhaps it’s modesty. Doesn’t want to seem like someone flaunting his success. Ya think? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/202 "2017-03-21T08:20:07Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > So do you, right? There’s no bases in fact that Trump has lied, misled, or exaggerated his tax returns, are there? > > Yet you want to believe. > > And regarding Obama and his book promotion… seriously? Someone’s promoting your work as coming from a person born in Kenya and as the author of the book you don’t say anything to correct it? > > Come now. Trump had been spreading the birther lie for years, with zero evidence, before someone found that booklet and publicized it. There’s no evidence Obama even knew that it existed before that. There was, on the other hand, a mountain of evidence Obama was born in Hawaii. Trump spread this lie for years with no evidence. Was he so stupid that he believed something with no evidence, or so cynical that he didn’t care about spreading a lie? ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/203 "2017-03-21T08:30:41Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Trump spread this lie for years with no evidence. Was he so stupid that he believed something with no evidence, or so cynical that he didn’t care about spreading a lie? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/204 "2017-03-21T15:12:39Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > There isn’t any uncertainty. The idea that Trump cheated on his taxes is faith-based, and not subject to falsification. > > It’s the standard approach. > > [ul][li]Assume that Trump (or Romney, back in 2012) cheated on his taxes.[/li][li]If Trump (or Romney) doesn’t prove he didn’t, that proves he’s guilty of cheating on his taxes.[/li][li]Maddow gets hold of an illegally obtained copy of one of Trump’s returns.[/li][li]MS/NBC schedules a whole news program wherein she proves pretty clearly that Trump didn’t cheat on his taxes.[/li][li]Repeat the assumption that Trump cheated on his other tax returns, and try again.[/ul]This is like a conspiracy theory. The lack of evidence proves there really is a conspiracy. Therefore, the more evidence that is discredited, the more that proves the conspiracy.[/li] > Regards, > Shodan There were very specific suspicions wrt Romney’s tax returns. He released all of them except 2009. That was the year we offered amnesty to people who had been hiding money in swiss bank accounts if they handed over all the interest they earned on that account. Interest rates had been low for a long time. What Romney was susceptible to was not the revelation that he cheated on his taxes, we had ample proof of his creative tax positions when he ended up with a IRA worth between 20 and 100 million as a result of his valuation of his carried interest in his hedge funds (the tax code does not really incorporate the black scholes model the way it does time value of money). He was susceptible because he might have had a shitload of money in swiss bank accounts. I don’t think Trump cheats on his taxes either. I think the primary revelation would be that he is not as rich as he makes out to be. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/205 "2017-03-21T15:14:23Z")
> [@SingleMalt](#): > > I’m not sure where there was any claim of _cheating_ on Trump’s taxes. The larger concerns are where his income came from, and where he owes money. Without knowing whom he’s beholden to, we can’t predict where his conflicts lie. > > Where’d the accusation of cheating come from? Why would who you owe money to be on your tax return unless it is a mortgage or a business loan (which would be on his company’s returns) how deoes a loan end up on a tax return and frankly if Trump owes you money, he is not the one with a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/206 "2017-03-21T15:18:30Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > Absolutely, I think it is entirely within the right…and in fact the obligation…of the press to consult with experts and discuss the various possible reasons why Donald Trump is not releasing his taxes and to continually remind the public of this incredible betrayal of the public trust and why it is so important. No action Donald Trump takes should be discussed without reference to what possible hidden motives he might have that we are not privy to. Speculating without evidence is exactly the sort of shit that has undermined the credibility of the press. That would indeed be fake news. If you saw a movie where a journalist started writing news about what somebody might be hiding by not telling the journalist everything they want to know, you would think that was a slimy journalist. What betrayal? Not sharing his tax returns? Sure its been custom for a few decades now but its not really followed rigorously and it was never really an issue until Nixon got accused of cheating on his taxes. Speculating on conspiracy theories is for tabloids not journalists. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/207 "2017-03-21T15:23:58Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > I don’t know if he, personally, ever said that, but his surrogates did. > > [Did Obama's Literary Agent Say He Was Born in Kenya? | Snopes.com](http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/booklet.asp). I don’t think you are using the term surrogate correctly. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/208 "2017-03-21T15:27:21Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > You tell me. You apparently have a better grasp of the history of the United States. When did we first start paying taxes, and how does that jibe with what I said? The income tax wasn’t imposed until 1913. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/209 "2017-03-21T15:32:43Z")
I don’t know if there is anything interesting in Trump’s tax returns. I do know he \*repeatedly \*promised to release them “when the audit was over.” And then. after the election, he said that was all a lie. He’s one lying motherfucker. > [@](#): > > “I don’t mind releasing,” he said during his first president debate with Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton. “I’m under a routine audit. And it’ll be released. And as soon as the audit’s finished, it will be released.” > [@](#): > > “He’s not going to release his tax returns. We litigated this all through the election. People didn’t care,” White House advisor Kellyanne Conway said on ABC, two days after Trump took the oath of office. ---
**Author:** ![SingleMalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/singlemalt/32/3961_2.png) [@SingleMalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleMalt)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/210 "2017-03-21T16:25:57Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Why would who you owe money to be on your tax return unless it is a mortgage or a business loan (which would be on his company’s returns) how deoes a loan end up on a tax return and frankly if Trump owes you money, he is not the one with a problem. Since Trump’s business is privately held, I have no problem with him submitting his business tax returns for review, as well. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/211 "2017-03-21T17:11:15Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > Tell that to Hillary. > > [http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/22/fact-checking-media-yes-clinton-machine-did-start-/](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/22/fact-checking-media-yes-clinton-machine-did-start-/) Are you saying that Hillary is a credible source for ANYTHING? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/212 "2017-03-21T17:22:25Z")
> [@SingleMalt](#): > > Since Trump’s business is privately held, I have no problem with him submitting his business tax returns for review, as well. Is THAT now customary? Or are we just piling on because… wtf why not? Why not have him release all his medical records and the court transcripts of his divorces as well? And wo gives a shit who he owes money to. Like I said, when Trump owes you money, then YOU have a problem, not him. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/213 "2017-03-21T17:37:11Z")
Tax returns show much more than who you owe money to. No investigator would ever think of making a forensic investigation of someone’s finances without the tax returns. It’s just a basic condition you start with. One thing you don’t do is decide what you are going to find before you start. This is true for apologists as well as conspiracists. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/214 "2017-03-21T17:44:16Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > That’s the metric? Tell us everything we want to know otherwise it’s a lie? > > We’re right back to why Obama didn’t release his full birth certificate. > > No? Amazing how it always turns back to “Well, Obama didn’t release his long form birth certificate!” How does that bear ANY relation to forty years’ worth of presidents having released their tax returns? Hint: absolutely nothing. But it’s an attempted distraction. Nice try, though. That whole conspiracy theory has been refuted for many years. > [@](#): > > Neither are yours, I’m afraid to say. Really? Your ‘fact’ (you presented exactly one piece of theoretically supporting evidence) was directly refuted. Mine have been proven true. If you’re going to try to rewrite history, at least make it interesting. Or, barring that, repeat it. That’ll convince me. ---
**Author:** ![SingleMalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/singlemalt/32/3961_2.png) [@SingleMalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleMalt)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/215 "2017-03-21T18:07:27Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Is THAT now customary? Or are we just piling on because… wtf why not? > > Why not have him release all his medical records and the court transcripts of his divorces as well? > > And wo gives a shit who he owes money to. Like I said, when Trump owes you money, then YOU have a problem, not him. If any of those records have relevance to the possibility that the President can be influenced by foreign governments, or - in extreme cases - blackmailed by these same actors, then yes, they should be released. As for giving a shit about whom he owes money to - I care, as do many others. Whom you’re beholden to directly shows who has influence over you. Is that a position we can tolerate in our President? Did Obama’s long-form birth certificate provide additional relevant information beyond what the regular certificate showed? Or are you just jumping on the debunked “the short form is a fake” bandwagon? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/216 "2017-03-21T18:11:11Z")
> [@SingleMalt](#): > > If any of those records have relevance to the possibility that the President can be influenced by foreign governments, or - in extreme cases - blackmailed by these same actors, then yes, they should be released. > > As for giving a shit about whom he owes money to - I care, as do many others. Whom you’re beholden to directly shows who has influence over you. Is that a position we can tolerate in our President? > > Did Obama’s long-form birth certificate provide additional relevant information beyond what the regular certificate showed? Or are you just jumping on the debunked “the short form is a fake” bandwagon? The long form birth certificate showed that don the con can manipulate the media and the presidency. Apparently that was only an appetizer. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/217 "2017-03-21T18:11:49Z")
> [@SingleMalt](#): > > If any of those records have relevance to the possibility that the President can be influenced by foreign governments, or - in extreme cases - blackmailed by these same actors, then yes, they should be released. Plus, his businesses are probably set up as flow-throughs. I.e., his business income flows through to him, so his business returns are directly relevant. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/218 "2017-03-21T18:14:18Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Plus, his businesses are probably set up as flow-throughs. I.e., his business income flows through to him, so his business returns are directly relevant. Oh c’mon! you’re joshing me! What would his business returns have to do with him? Why are you piling on man? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/219 "2017-03-21T19:03:00Z")
> [@SingleMalt](#): > > If any of those records have relevance to the possibility that the President can be influenced by foreign governments, or - in extreme cases - blackmailed by these same actors, then yes, they should be released. So what record do you think exists in his tax returns that would show this sort of vulnerability to influence. > [@](#): > > As for giving a shit about whom he owes money to - I care, as do many others. Whom you’re beholden to directly shows who has influence over you. Is that a position we can tolerate in our President? his creditors have no “influence” over him. Are you one of those guys that think the Russian mob will break his knees if he doesn’t pay his debts? > [@](#): > > Did Obama’s long-form birth certificate provide additional relevant information beyond what the regular certificate showed? Or are you just jumping on the debunked “the short form is a fake” bandwagon? WTF are you talking about? I never asked for a birth certificate. I thought birthers were basically racists. What is it about my post that makes you think I m a birther? Or do you just assume anyone that disagrees with the notion that tax returns will provide evidence of treason is a birther? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/220 "2017-03-21T19:04:17Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Plus, his businesses are probably set up as flow-throughs. I.e., his business income flows through to him, so his business returns are directly relevant. Almost all of Romney’s businesses were partnerships for tax purposes. Why didn’t we ask for THOSE? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204.md?page=12)