# Maddow's Trump Tax Return announcement **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 15, 2017, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204 "2017-03-15T00:29:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/101 "2017-03-15T17:49:34Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > The fact that she blew them up as a big expose - hey, we’re gonna dish the dirt on Trump! > > And the dirt came out: he paid his taxes. Big fucking deal. But to a liberal airhead like Maddow, it…probably was. Actually, his regular taxes were a far smaller percentage than you pay. The AMT ensured he paid something close to what he actually owed. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/102 "2017-03-15T18:28:14Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Depends on the ‘we.’ People like you and me, no. But most Americans have no idea what the AMT does. This gives them a piece of concrete information. > > A lot of people last night and this morning were speculating that Trump had this return leaked. Apparently Joe Scarborough was the one who Trump noticed, though, since Michael Cohen, Trump’s sleazy personal lawyer, tweeted to Scarborough, “You better have proof to back up your claim and big mouth!” > > It amuses me that someone with as incidental a relationship to the truth as Trump has, is demanding that _someone else_ back up his claims. 🙂 Did they specify 2005 and that it was only the 1040 and nothing else before it aired? It’s also possible that Maddow called Trump org/The White House to verify they were legit, I just find the leak to be the only interesting part of the story. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/103 "2017-03-15T18:33:28Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > Did they specify 2005 and that it was only the 1040 and nothing else before it aired? > > It’s also possible that Maddow called Trump org/The White House to verify they were legit, I just find the leak to be the only interesting part of the story. Maddow actually said on her show that they contacted the WH to verify the 2005 1040, before airing. The WH issued as statement, confirming its veracity. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/104 "2017-03-15T18:34:24Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > This “airhead” graduated from Stanford and was a Rhodes Scholar, getting her PhD in public policy in Oxford. She is quite likely the most intelligent journalist in the US. A PhD in public policy. Could you summarize a particularly difficult course in her matriculation? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/105 "2017-03-15T18:35:53Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > The AMT ensured he paid something close to what he actually owed. What does the word “actually” mean in the above? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/106 "2017-03-15T18:37:38Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > A PhD in public policy. Could you summarize a particularly difficult course in her matriculation? Is this post for real? It’s comical! Troll alert… (hey, I gotta get a warning someday…) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/107 "2017-03-15T18:39:26Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > What does the word “actually” mean in the above? And also “ensured”, “paid”, “what” and “he”. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/108 "2017-03-15T18:41:03Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > A PhD in public policy. Could you summarize a particularly difficult course in her matriculation? I personally cannot. I suggest you get yourself a Rhodes Scholarship and tell us how easy it is. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/109 "2017-03-15T18:41:32Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > A PhD in public policy. Could you summarize a particularly difficult course in her matriculation? I’ve no doubt someone as clever as you could not only [google to find the details](http://www.bsg.ox.ac.uk/study/dphil/dphil-course-overview) but complete one between your next set of snarky posts. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/110 "2017-03-15T19:26:04Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > Did they specify 2005 and that it was only the 1040 and nothing else before it aired? Yes…[Her first tweet was vague. Her second tweet specified that they had the 1040 form from 2005](https://twitter.com/maddow?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor): > [@](#): > > What we’ve got is from 2005… the President’s 1040 form… details to come tonight 9PM ET, MSNBC. Since “1040 form” is kind of vague, I was hoping they had more than just the form itself but I wasn’t expecting anything more. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/111 "2017-03-15T20:03:21Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And also “ensured”, “paid”, “what” and “he”. No, those words seem to have been used in their normal way. “Actually” is defined as “[as the truth or facts of a situation; really](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwik4fqrpdnSAhXE0iYKHTq4AO0QFgg9MAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.cambridge.org%2Fus%2Fdictionary%2Fenglish%2Factually&usg=AFQjCNEQGZb7SfsOh7WXABxSsEqQ0Hiepg).” It can’t have been used in that way - it is certainly not factual that Trump owed an amount different from what he paid. The amount he owed in fact is set by law, and it is quite clear that Trump paid the amount that, in fact, he owed. So I was wondering how a word that means “really” was referring to things that are imaginary. Perhaps it was like misuse of the word “literally”, when one says something is literally true when it is just the opposite. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/112 "2017-03-15T20:13:51Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > A PhD in public policy. Could you summarize a particularly difficult course in her matriculation? Please discontinue the hijack about the level of academic rigor Maddow completed. No warning issued. > [@JKellyMap](#): > > Is this post for real? It’s comical! > Troll alert… (hey, I gotta get a warning someday…) This is a warning for accusing another poster of trolling which is not permitted in this forum. If you feel you must, the Pit is right around the corner. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/113 "2017-03-15T20:21:24Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > Like I said, I do however think it is quite a big deal to understand just how much Trump stands to gain from eliminating the AMT…I think the number is $31 million in that one year alone. It sort of puts his donation of his paltry $400,000 salary as President, made out to be such a selfless act, in perspective. I think most of us would gladly forego $400,000 to save $31 million. I agree about the value in highlighting the AMT. In the news recently: Trump has declined to offer any proof that he’s forgoing his salary as promised: > [@](#): > > … He also said he wouldn’t be taking vacations either. However, in eight weekends as president, Trump has gone to his Palm Beach resort Mar-a-Lago five times, costing an estimated $3.3 million per trip, according to The Boston Globe. > > Last week, MSNBC sent a letter to White House staff requesting documentation that Trump has been donating his salary, noting that the president receives his first paycheck on or around the 20th of the month, meaning he would have received one in February and is due to receive another next week. > > All declined to say if Trump donated any of his salary. [http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/Trump-Salary/2017/03/13/id/778405/](http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/Trump-Salary/2017/03/13/id/778405/) Their story now is that he’ll wait until the end of the year, _then_ donate it. Uh-huh. I’m with those who assume it was Bannon who decided that releasing the two pages from 2005 would accomplish several things: [ul] [li]A distraction from the health-care fiasco is badly needed; Trump’s image as a Deal-Maker Extraordinaire is about to be revealed as complete horseshit.[/li] [li]As laid out very clearly by Martin Hyde (posts 53 and 55 in particular) and others in this thread, 2005 was probably an extremely atypical year for Trump, financially–one of the few in which he could point to actually-paid taxes and a fair amount of income. **Many people will follow the human tendency to assume that one stands for all** –that all years of Trump’s tax returns look pretty much like this one. Bannon will make good use of this unfortunate pattern in human reasoning–it will form the basis of talking points for Trump defenders for months to come.[/li] [li]By pretending to have had nothing to do with the release of the two 2005 pages, the White House will be able to have that cake (the benefits of the release mentioned above) and eat it too–it gives them fresh “bash the media” material. How dare that mean ol’ media release the 2005 pages without permission!?! They must be STOPPED!!!1!!![/li][/ul] …All in all, it’s a win/win for Bannon. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/114 "2017-03-15T20:47:15Z")
One can’t tell with certainty, but this smells of a deliberate leak. They just happened to pick a year that looks good for him- he made a lot and paid a lot. The copy has “Client Copy” stamped on it. What was released really doesn’t show that much. He gets to bash his favorite media target. It distracts from the shitpile health care proposal. It just seems too convenient. But perhaps it could still work against him. Anybody else who has access to his old returns now knows where they can be dropped off and get published. They might even sound out the media about what they’d pay for such documents. Perhaps this is just the beginning, other less favorable years surely exist and sooner or later, they will come out. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/115 "2017-03-15T20:56:07Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > One can’t tell with certainty, but this smells of a deliberate leak. They just happened to pick a year that looks good for him- he made a lot and paid a lot. The copy has “Client Copy” stamped on it. What was released really doesn’t show that much. He gets to bash his favorite media target. It distracts from the shitpile health care proposal. It just seems too convenient. > > But perhaps it could still work against him. Anybody else who has access to his old returns now knows where they can be dropped off and get published. They might even sound out the media about what they’d pay for such documents. Perhaps this is just the beginning, other less favorable years surely exist and sooner or later, they will come out. The White House can release the other tax forms-They released these themselves just prior to Maddow’s broadcast. I guess that “audit” must be over with, right? ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/116 "2017-03-15T21:05:30Z")
The speed at which the WH responded to this is very telling. It takes them days or weeks to reply to most things - yet here they immediately were able to respond by putting the return out themselves. Might not have been some kind of silver bullet but Maddow’s scoop was a good one and it will be interesting to see what happens from here. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/117 "2017-03-15T21:35:27Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > …I guess that “audit” must be over with, right? If memory serves, at one point fairly recently Il Douche admitted that “audit” had nothing to do with anything, but then shrugged it off and refused anyway. The "audit’ gambit was no longer operable, but he saw no compelling reason to replace it. No idea how to google that, anybody else remember? ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/118 "2017-03-15T21:58:12Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I’m not alleging that he’s done this. But it seems possible. That seems to be a constant refrain around here. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/119 "2017-03-15T22:06:43Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > If memory serves, at one point fairly recently Il Douche admitted that “audit” had nothing to do with anything, but then shrugged it off and refused anyway. The "audit’ gambit was no longer operable, but he saw no compelling reason to replace it. > No idea how to google that, anybody else remember? You might be thinking of the January 11 press conference, in which he first gave a half-hearted use of the “audit” excuse, but then segued into ‘I won, therefore I won’t release’: > [@](#): > > SPEAKER: …Do you believe the hacking was justified? And will you release your tax returns to prove what you’re saying about no deals in Russia? > DONALD TRUMP: Well, I’m not releasing the tax returns because, as you know, they’re under audit. > (CROSSTALK) > SPEAKER: … since the '70’s has had a required audit from the IRS, the last place to release them, but as president – > DONALD TRUMP: Oh, gee, I’ve never heard that. I’ve never heard that before. The only one that cares about my tax returns are the reporters. They’re the only ones. > SPEAKER: You don’t think the American public is concerned about it? > DONALD TRUMP: But no, I don’t think so. I won – I mean, I became president – no, I don’t think they care at all. I don’t think they care at all. I think you care. I think you care. > First of all, you learn very little from a tax return. What you should do is go to federal elections and take a look at the numbers. And actually, people have learned a lot about my company. And now they realize my company is much bigger, much more powerful than they ever thought. We’re in many, many countries and I’m very proud of it. [Trump Press Conference: His First As President-Elect With Transcript And Fact Checks : NPR](http://www.npr.org/2017/01/11/509137239/watch-live-trump-holds-first-press-conference-as-president-elect) The “audit” excuse will never go away–any falsehood Trump uses becomes beloved to him, and he will use it even after having ‘renounced’ it. But the “no one cares about the tax returns” seems to be the approved line for the surrogates, in spite of polls which indicate that quite a few million Americans do care: > [@](#): > > Almost three-quarters of Americans think President-elect Donald Trump > should release his tax returns, according to a new ABC News/Washington Post poll. > Seventy-four percent say Trump should release his tax returns, which the president-elect refused to do during his campaign. [http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/314483-almost-three-quarters-of-americans-want-trump-to-release-tax-returns](http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/314483-almost-three-quarters-of-americans-want-trump-to-release-tax-returns) ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204/120 "2017-03-15T22:30:58Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > [QUOTE=Newsmax] > … He also said he wouldn’t be taking vacations either. However, in eight weekends as president, Trump has gone to his Palm Beach resort Mar-a-Lago five times, costing an estimated $3.3 million per trip, according to The Boston Globe. [/quote] Since he is now turning from Julius to Tiberius on Capri, I really think everyone, including his critics, should ensure he spends the rest of his presidency holed up in his villa by the sea, eschewing the White House completely, and letting the civil service run the Empire. Modern communications make it as easy to carry out duties wherever one may be. I assume, confessing ignorance, an American president is required to spend the bulk of the time on American soil; and sending him to rule from the old ruined monastery in romantic Tsetserleg on the slopes of the Khangai Mountains less than 400 miles SW of Ulan Bator is out ? ‘_The rural landscapes of Siberia and Mongolia are gems hidden within Central Asia_.’ **[Remote Lands Travel](http://www.remotelands.com/destination/15011401_itinerary_siberia_Crossing-the-Border:-Remote-Siberia-&-Mongolia)** > [@](#): > > All declined to say if Trump donated any of his salary. > [http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/Trum.../13/id/778405/](http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/Trum.../13/id/778405/) > Their story now is that he’ll wait until the end of the year, _then_ donate it. Uh-huh. Mayhap he can ask his sons, the Trumplings, to form Charity Foundations devoted to such causes as they favour. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maddows-trump-tax-return-announcement/782204.md?page=7)