# "Madmen" looks awful because John Hamm is terrible **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 31, 2014, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592 "2014-12-31T04:45:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/41 "2014-12-31T15:03:55Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > I think maybe you’re confusing people’s affect in _movies_ from the 60’s with the way people _actually talked_. Thank you for us using the word “affect”. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/42 "2014-12-31T15:55:47Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Alec Guinness is a ham. You mean Alex Ginnnus? This OP reminds me of the Key & Peele doormen that talk about movies all day. “I love that Liam Neesons! Liam Neesons is the shit!” ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/43 "2014-12-31T16:01:43Z")
I’ve never seen that Mad Men show - Peyton [sung to Nationwide jingle] . ---
**Author:** ![Telperion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telperion/32/509_2.png) [@Telperion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperion)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/44 "2014-12-31T18:42:58Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > Fifth, it’s Jon Hamm, not John Hamm. That may be a new record for errors in a single “Cafe Society” OP.’ In fairness though, it may well be true that [John Hamm](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hamm) is a pretty terrible actor. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/45 "2014-12-31T19:02:23Z")
To the OP, are there any modern actors who you consider good actors? Also, are there any period pieces that you think convey the time period well. You mentioned two movies that were made in the 60s. I’m asking for movies or tv shows made in the past 15ish years that portrayed the 60s in what you consider to be a realistic fashion? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/46 "2014-12-31T19:15:14Z")
I’d be curious to hear from someone who was an adult in the 1960s, if Jon Hamm is really that off from what people in NYC in 1968 were really like? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/47 "2014-12-31T20:01:15Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I’d be curious to hear from someone who was an adult in the 1960s, if Jon Hamm is really that off from what people in NYC in 1968 were really like? I was born in 67. Seems good to me. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/48 "2014-12-31T20:04:51Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > As woodstockbirdybird so astutely pointed out, I don’t have an opinion of Mad Men, other than that it’s extremely popular. Then why are you participating in this thread? You have nothing to offer. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/49 "2014-12-31T20:15:11Z")
Guys, if I had watched a bunch of the show, then I’d probably be a fan by now. So the criticism of, “Dude, you didn’t watch the show. You suck!” is not only totally obvious but a little silly. I thought some people who didn’t like the show would weigh in, but that hasn’t happened. So, yeah, I get it: you think the show is awesome. Very edifying. ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/50 "2014-12-31T20:23:10Z")
I haven’t put much time into Mad Men, but I watched Black Mirror White Christmas a couple of nights back and Hamm is rivetingly charismatic with a subtle layer of vulnerability. Opinions of course can differ, and you are in your rights to not call him a great actor, but how can you call him a bad one. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/51 "2014-12-31T20:25:38Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Guys, if I had watched a bunch of the show, then I’d probably be a fan by now. So the criticism of, “Dude, you didn’t watch the show. You suck!” is not only totally obvious but a little silly. I thought some people who didn’t like the show would weigh in, but that hasn’t happened. > > So, yeah, I get it: you think the show is awesome. Very edifying. The blowback you’re receiving is not about your disliking the show. In the weekly MM threads while it’s airing there’s plenty of criticism of it. The blowback is motivated by your opening a thread about a show you admit to never watching, have only seen clips of, but yet feel qualified to disparage. Not only does that make you seem arrogant–it causes one to wonder at your motives. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/52 "2014-12-31T20:31:02Z")
> [@Namkcalb](#): > > Opinions of course can differ, and you are in your rights to not call him a great actor, but how can you call him a bad one. I am certainly not calling JON (thanks for the correction, everybody!) a bad actor. He just doesn’t seem like a guy from that time period, and the writing and situations weren’t grabbing me either. It’s not just that he doesn’t seem like someone from 1960/1968. He positively seems like someone from _today_ in terms of vibe, speech, manner, etc. Put differently, he seems like someone that I have never seen in a TV show, news report, etc., from that period. He could be great in something else. He is definitely good-looking and does not seem like a bad actor (in the general sense) at all to me. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/53 "2014-12-31T20:31:56Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > The blowback you’re receiving is not about your disliking the show. In the weekly MM threads while it’s airing there’s plenty of criticism of it. The blowback is motivated by your opening a thread about a show you admit to never watching, have only seen clips of, but yet feel qualified to disparage. Not only does that make you seem arrogant–it causes one to wonder at your motives. Exactly, like it or don’t, who cares. But that’s not the issue. You started a thread like you discovered some secret- Jon Hamm is a bad actor!- that the rest of us sheeple just didn’t realize! You asserted it with certainty and authority while admitting you’ve never seen an entire episode and the clip you referenced was the culmination of a powerful arc in which Jon Hamm was supposed to be not himself. When people pointed that out, you simply doubled-down on your correctness and authority in your opinion. Then you hide behind “you’re all mad because I didn’t like your show”. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/54 "2014-12-31T20:32:30Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > The blowback you’re receiving is not about your disliking the show. In the weekly MM threads while it’s airing there’s plenty of criticism of it. The blowback is motivated by your opening a thread about a show you admit to never watching, have only seen clips of, but yet feel qualified to disparage. Not only does that make you seem arrogant–it causes one to wonder at your motives. Whatever, man. I have not been a huge Cafe Society poster and was just trying to have an interesting discussion. Getting pissy and personal about it kinda takes the fun away, though. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/55 "2014-12-31T22:17:39Z")
Well, it’s kind of like you opened The Great Gatsby to a random page, read a paragraph and declared, “F. Scott Fizzgerald sucs!” Your criticism is uninformed and factually incorrect, so there’s not much to discuss other than the failings of th OP. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/56 "2014-12-31T22:20:05Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I’d be curious to hear from someone who was an adult in the 1960s, if Jon Hamm is really that off from what people in NYC in 1968 were really like? Let’s go to the videotape! Here’s an episode of[Playboy After Dark from 1969](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JcRigcJgBk). I’d particularly direct you to a long sequence beginning at 17:45 where Hef has a long conversation with Rex Reed and Patty Duke. Watch this and see if you don’t think the actors on Mad Men aren’t actually _underplaying_ their performances. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/57 "2014-12-31T23:04:39Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Well, it’s kind of like you opened The Great Gatsby to a random page, read a paragraph and declared, “F. Scott Fizzgerald sucs!” Your criticism is uninformed and factually incorrect, so there’s not much to discuss other than the failings of th OP. Not really. People could talk about whether the acting is good or not, etc. That’s the discussion I wanted to observe more than take part in. But, obviously, it ain’t gonna happen. _The Great Gatsby_ happens to be one of my favorite books. If someone made a critique similar to the one I made about it, I would discuss the matter and not just be a dick to him or her. I think that would be more intellectually stimulating. But that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/58 "2014-12-31T23:09:52Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Let’s go to the videotape! > > Here’s an episode of[Playboy After Dark from 1969](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JcRigcJgBk). I’d particularly direct you to a long sequence beginning at 17:45 where Hef has a long conversation with Rex Reed and Patty Duke. Watch this and see if you don’t think the actors on Mad Men aren’t actually _underplaying_ their performances. I actually think this is a perfect example for _my side_ of the argument. It’s subtle and hard to quantify, but Heff speaks in a cadence and accent that is simply of its time, and I think Jon Hamm is speaking in a cadence and accent that is of _our_ time. By the way, I have not said that the other actors have failed to do this. Some of the old guys in the scenes I’ve seen seem believably of that time. But they lived through it and may thus find it easy to put themselves back in that vibe. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/59 "2014-12-31T23:30:56Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > Fifth, it’s Jon Hamm, not John Hamm. That may be a new record for errors in a single “Cafe Society” OP.’ I’ve been a longtime fan of the OP’s [entertainment column](http://www.theonion.com/personalities/jackie-harvey,1017/). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/60 "2014-12-31T23:38:13Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Not really. People could talk about whether the acting is good or not, etc. That’s the discussion I wanted to observe more than take part in. But, obviously, it ain’t gonna happen. The problem with that idea is, to have a discussion about whether or not Jon Hamm is a good actor requires people to argue both sides of the issue. So far, the only person taking the “he sucks” side of the debate is you, and you’re not in a position to support your argument. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592.md?page=4)