# "Madmen" looks awful because John Hamm is terrible **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 31, 2014, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592 "2014-12-31T04:45:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/101 "2015-01-01T22:56:44Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Oh I think there are different cultures in the different forums. I get along in IMHO just fine. Nice group of people. Wait a second. I’m in IMHO all the damn time, and I’m a complete jackass. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/102 "2015-01-01T22:57:46Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > It’s interesting that you claimed you started this thread because you wanted a discussion, but when presented with a differing opinion, instead of discussing the show, you dismissed her opinion with, “Let’s agree to disagree!” > > That’s not how discussions work. She simply stated the opposite of what I said, then I came back and stated the opposite of what she said. In any case, if I were to do this over, I wouldn’t do it. I didn’t want to have this kind of infantile battle with the anonymous people of the Net, and that is what ended up happening, so I have indeed failed. You can judge your own roles yourselves, although most here have already declared themselves pleased with the outcome. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/103 "2015-01-01T22:59:21Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Wait a second. I’m in IMHO all the damn time, and I’m a complete jackass. I don’t remember encountering you there before. In any case, that forum is geared more toward providing advice and figuring out solutions, so I don’t see people beating up on each other too much. To the contrary, people seem to take a positive, compassionate stance in general. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/104 "2015-01-01T23:04:11Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > I don’t remember encountering you there before. In any case, that forum is geared more toward providing advice and figuring out solutions, so I don’t see people beating up on each other too much. To the contrary, people seem to take a positive, compassionate stance in general. I am gonna send you over a facetiousness meter, may? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/105 "2015-01-01T23:52:55Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Oh I think there are different cultures in the different forums. I get along in IMHO just fine. Nice group of people. Pfff. It’s not board culture, it’s human nature. You plop down a sweeping criticism of a well liked show based on 45 seconds of youtube clips, then “discuss”. If you wanted to read back and forth about the show you could have just done a search and read a bunch of the ones that have already happened. I am not a fan of the show at all but have read this thread because it’s hilarious seeing you trying to understand us “hu-mans”. I honestly have been lol’ing at you. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/106 "2015-01-02T00:01:47Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Pfff. It’s not board culture, it’s human nature. You plop down a sweeping criticism of a well liked show based on 45 seconds of youtube clips, then “discuss”. If you wanted to read back and forth about the show you could have just done a search and read a bunch of the ones that have already happened. True enough. > [@](#): > > I am not a fan of the show at all but have read this thread because it’s hilarious seeing you trying to understand us “hu-mans”. I honestly have been lol’ing at you. Then that’s your take on human nature. Nothing to be proud about, and someone will be lolling at you in due time. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/107 "2015-01-02T00:03:21Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > True enough. > > Then that’s your take on human nature. Nothing to be proud about, and someone will be lolling at you in due time. Lol ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/108 "2015-01-02T00:10:28Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I’m about four years younger than “Peggy.” I find everything about the show stunningly authentic. Stuff I haven’t thought about for years flies up in every episode and smacks me in the face…some in good ways and some in bad ways. I have a friend from high school who is one year older than me, and we discuss every episode afterwards, both of us reeling from the speech, the sets, the clothes, the attitudes, especially toward women. We were both raised Catholic, so Peggy’s family situation hits home. The series is so realistic that it’s almost painful to watch. I used to accompany my dad to business meetings in the '60s (usually I’d be parked in the reception area with some comic books and a sketch pad, while he disappeared behind closed doors for two or three hours). Every episode of _ **Mad Men** _, I’m inundated with things that bring back the feel and _smell_ of those office environments! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/109 "2015-01-02T00:16:10Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > She simply stated the opposite of what I said, then I came back and stated the opposite of what she said. > > In any case, if I were to do this over, I wouldn’t do it. I didn’t want to have this kind of infantile battle with the anonymous people of the Net, and that is what ended up happening, so I have indeed failed. You can judge your own roles yourselves, although most here have already declared themselves pleased with the outcome. I didn’t just say the opposite. I gave some explanation ( like it was the culmination of a story arc etc) as part of an attempt to have a discussion. Saying “agree to disagree” isn’t always nice. It can be dismissive. It’s like starting a insult with “no offense, but…” and then say something offensive. But hey, the fact that just about everybody had the same gut reaction to your posts means nothing- it’s obviously us, not you. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/110 "2015-01-02T00:25:26Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > I didn’t just say the opposite. I gave some explanation ( like it was the culmination of a story arc etc) as part of an attempt to have a discussion. Saying “agree to disagree” isn’t always nice. It can be dismissive. It’s like starting a insult with “no offense, but…” and then say something offensive. I honestly did not mean to be offensive. It was earlier in the thread, and thought at that point there was some potential for a fun discussion. > [@](#): > > But hey, the fact that just about everybody had the same gut reaction to your posts means nothing- it’s obviously us, not you. As I said, I wouldn’t do it again, as I was not aiming to insult or enrage anyone. Since I didn’t get the result I was after, that’s my fault. But the behavior of other people in this thread has been atrocious. It’s classic mean, bullying, demeaning, and invalidating behavior that people have the “courage” to engage in when they aren’t posting under their real names on the Internet. The Mods seem to have no problem with it either. You never know whom you’re putting down online. It could be someone having a bad day, someone on the verge of suicide, someone with Asperger’s who isn’t good at relating to others. I’m fine and can take it, but remember this for the next person you don’t know that you feel like kicking around. ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/111 "2015-01-02T04:25:08Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > I used to accompany my dad to business meetings in the '60s (usually I’d be parked in the reception area with some comic books and a sketch pad, while he disappeared behind closed doors for two or three hours). Every episode of _ **Mad Men** _, I’m inundated with things that bring back the feel and _smell_ of those office environments! :smack: I came in to comment about the smell (which sounds, um, odd, written out like that :dubious: ) ANYWAY, I had an uncle who would have been about the same age as Don Draper. Completely different profession, and I knew my uncle as an older man, not in his prime, but the attitude and mannerisms are so on point that when I watch scenes with Don, it’s like I can smell my uncle’s cologne (which I think was Vetiver). And I don’t even find Don’s story lines the most compelling part of the show, either. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/112 "2015-01-02T04:39:07Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > I honestly did not mean to be offensive. It was earlier in the thread, and thought at that point there was some potential for a fun discussion. > > As I said, I wouldn’t do it again, as I was not aiming to insult or enrage anyone. Since I didn’t get the result I was after, that’s my fault. > > But the behavior of other people in this thread has been atrocious. It’s classic mean, bullying, demeaning, and invalidating behavior that people have the “courage” to engage in when they aren’t posting under their real names on the Internet. The Mods seem to have no problem with it either. > > You never know whom you’re putting down online. It could be someone having a bad day, someone on the verge of suicide, someone with Asperger’s who isn’t good at relating to others. I’m fine and can take it, but remember this for the next person you don’t know that you feel like kicking around. My cousin was at my house for the holidays, read your post, and now he’s in the garden shed with a gun in his mouth because his dad used to beat him while complaining about atrocious anonymous internet bullies. Thanks a _lot!_ ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/113 "2015-01-02T07:30:09Z")
> [@delphica](#): > > I came in to comment about the smell (which sounds, um, odd, written out like that :dubious: ) ANYWAY, I had an uncle who would have been about the same age as Don Draper. Completely different profession, and I knew my uncle as an older man, not in his prime, but the attitude and mannerisms are so on point that when I watch scenes with Don, it’s like I can smell my uncle’s cologne (which I think was Vetiver). Maybe it’s just because all of your senses are so much more acute when you’re a child, but I’d swear that most things smell differently than they did fifty years ago, particularly the interiors of buildings, and those of office buildings in particular. Maybe it was the stale cigarette smoke or the cleaning agents and industrial solvents they used back then; I don’t know. (My strongest memory of the old Sears building on Lake Street in Minneapolis is its indescribable odor on the inside, something I’ve never experienced anywhere else.) Another thing that strikes me about _ **Mad Men** _ is the female fashions of the early '60s—I find those tight skirts that end right above the knee to be incredibly sexy! I thought the same thing watching women walk along the street when I was six years old, and I now understand why there were so many of them on Nicolette Avenue downtown: It was the business district, and they were probably all secretaries! ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/114 "2015-01-02T14:26:19Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Maybe it’s just because all of your senses are so much more acute when you’re a child, but I’d swear that most things smell differently than they did fifty years ago, particularly the interiors of buildings, and those of office buildings in particular. Maybe it was the stale cigarette smoke or the cleaning agents and industrial solvents they used back then; I don’t know. Maybe it was all the [polyester](http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2014/09/05/346055067/stinky-t-shirt-bacteria-love-polyester-in-a-special-way). ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/115 "2015-01-02T19:11:56Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Maybe it was all the [polyester](http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2014/09/05/346055067/stinky-t-shirt-bacteria-love-polyester-in-a-special-way). Polyester didn’t become popular until the '70s, did it? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/116 "2015-01-02T19:41:54Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > But the behavior of other people in this thread has been atrocious. It’s classic mean, bullying, demeaning, and invalidating behavior that people have the “courage” to engage in when they aren’t posting under their real names on the Internet. The Mods seem to have no problem with it either. > > You never know whom you’re putting down online. It could be someone having a bad day, someone on the verge of suicide, someone with Asperger’s who isn’t good at relating to others. I’m fine and can take it, but remember this for the next person you don’t know that you feel like kicking around. Oh, Jesus, thank you for this. I didn’t think this thread could get any more ridiculous, but you’ve topped yourself once again. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/117 "2015-01-02T20:00:13Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Oh, Jesus, thank you for this. I didn’t think this thread could get any more ridiculous, but you’ve topped yourself once again. Are you saying the thread is aeschinine? No one is bullying you. They are picking apart your premise. I have never seen Mad Men. The subject matter does not interest me. But I think John Hamm does a fantastic job. In fact it is one of the best acting roles I have ever not seen. The commercials look great though. I can defend my opinion as good as you can. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/118 "2015-01-02T23:12:52Z")
**Aeschines** , I haven’t watched Mad Men at all (though I plan to soonish). I basically know its concept, a rough idea of some big story arcs and the generic character archetypes for 4-5 characters. AKA about the level of info you glean just by existing online, basically. I’d guess you’re pretty similar, yeah? Well, I have to agree with others about your OP and thread behavior. It’s kind of like… You heard that tons of people love The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo book series. You don’t want to buy the books and invest a chunk of time reading if it’s not something you’d like, so you go to Amazon’s TGwtDT page. There, you click “look inside!” then read one sample page from ¾s the way through the first book. Then you post a thread here asking why anyone likes this shitty series, because the single page you read stripped of its context seemed ridiculous/dumb/confusing and the character’s dialog seemed overwrought. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/119 "2015-01-03T01:15:57Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Polyester didn’t become popular until the '70s, did it? :dubious: Your dubious smilie doesn’t amuse me. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592/120 "2015-01-03T03:46:42Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > You never know whom you’re putting down online. I know! Let’s hope Jon Hamm doesn’t Google himself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madmen-looks-awful-because-john-hamm-is-terrible/708592.md?page=7)