# Madoff's Sentence **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 23, 2009, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madoffs-sentence/500717 "2009-06-23T14:43:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madoffs-sentence/500717/61 "2009-06-29T17:46:00Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > Nope. I thought that this was almost the ENTIRE controversy behind the death penalty debate. And even then I don’t think the controversy is whether or not it is a deterrent but how much of a deterrent. Its like saying a fetus isn’t a life, I mean the controversy pretty much disappears after you conlude that. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madoffs-sentence/500717/62 "2009-06-29T17:48:51Z")
> [@Burton](#): > > He could be sentenced to up to 150 years. Yeah, but with good behavior, he can get that cut in half. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madoffs-sentence/500717/63 "2009-06-29T17:49:54Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > They usually go to club Fed. They do not have the same prison experience that poor people do. The rich live in a different world. They play tennis in prison .They probably feel deprived because they can not play golf in jail. They don’t go to supermax but we usually separate the violent criminals from the non-violent criminals but these prisons are filled with drug dealers and thieves. Even minimum security prisons are no jokes. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madoffs-sentence/500717/64 "2009-06-29T18:10:03Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > They don’t go to supermax but we usually separate the violent criminals from the non-violent criminals but these prisons are filled with drug dealers and thieves. Even minimum security prisons are no jokes. As suggested above Madoff’s long sentence may preclude him from a federal prison camp (the easiest to serve time in). Looks like he will get a low security prison which, depending where he goes, will likely not be that bad. > [@](#): > > The days of “Club Fed”–think golf courses and lobster bakes–are long gone. But minimum security facilities, known as federal prison camps, are the best suited for disgraced CEOs and other white-collar criminals. > > \ > > Why are prison camps the way to go, if you must go at all? Among other perks, federal prison camps have a relatively low staff-to-inmate ratio, dormitory-style accommodations and little to no fencing. In fact, inmates could walk away from these camps. Few do, however, because recaptured inmates face severe consequences. > > \ > > FPC Yankton, S.D. > > Population: 804 > > Prisoner Perk: This stand-alone camp offers inmates music lessons and intramural team sports. > > \ > > FCI Texarkana, Texas > > Population: FCI: 1,433; Camp: 377 > > Prisoner Perk: Texarkana offers a track as well as a bocce pit, a basketball court and several fields for inmates to use. > > \ > > FCI Lompoc, Calif. > > Population: FCI: 1,520; Camp: 334 > > Prisoner Perk: Inmates can stay in shape using Lompoc’s full gym and tennis courts. > > SOURCE: [Best Places To Go To Prison](http://www.forbes.com/2006/04/17/best-prisons-federal_cx_lr_06slate_0418bestprisons.html) Sounds awful. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > [H]e added that a lengthy sentence such as Madoff’s might bar him from such a desirable facility. > > Instead, Madoff might be eligible for a low-security prison, which isn’t as bad as medium-security, but it’s still a prison. > > “In low security, you have some violence, you may have some low-level Mafia type figures, you may have some people who have been involved in child porn,” he said. “[Madoff] may be facing that type of scenario.” > > The best possible low-security federal prison where Madoff could conceivably land is in Fairton, N.J., said Bales. That’s the current residence of Sanjay Kumar, former Chief Executive of Computer Associates, serving a 12-year sentence for fraud and obstruction of justice. > > “It’s one of the best places to do your time,” said Bales. “They send a lot of senators there and attorneys.” > > SOURCE: [http://money.cnn.com/2009/03/11/news/companies/madoff\_prison/index.htm](http://money.cnn.com/2009/03/11/news/companies/madoff_prison/index.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madoffs-sentence/500717/65 "2009-06-29T19:34:55Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > What makes death a stupid punishment? I am pretty sure that it is a deterrent in at least some cases. > > Is the death penalty stupid because you don’t agree with it? Immoral. Irrational. Not a deterrent. If the max penalty was the death penalty and a precedence were established, would Madoff have still committed these crimes? Hard to say, but I’d say that it’s very likely that he would. Even when there is a crime in which the death penalty is the penalty, people still commit those crimes. I assume you believe that because the death penalty is present, that people don’t commit nearly as many of those crimes because of the death penalty. That reflects upon your view of human nature, not mine. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madoffs-sentence/500717/66 "2009-06-29T22:28:07Z")
The death penalty may not be effective as a _general_ deterrent, but there is no question that when successfully imposed it is a foolproof _specific_ deterrent. The person who has received the death penalty will never commit another crime, including the crime of raping or killing another prisoner, crimes which can be committed by someone sentenced to life in prison (or 150 years). ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madoffs-sentence/500717/67 "2009-06-29T22:38:33Z")
Not that I’m defending Madoff, but if you murder someone in NY, you can get parole in 25 years. Cheating investors out of money is 6 times worse than murdering someone? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madoffs-sentence/500717/68 "2009-06-29T22:53:51Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Not that I’m defending Madoff, but if you murder someone in NY, you can get parole in 25 years. Cheating investors out of money is 6 times worse than murdering someone? If you murder someone you’ve ruined 1 life; Madoff ruined many people’s lives. In both cases I’m excluding possible dependents. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madoffs-sentence/500717/69 "2009-06-30T04:54:41Z")
Mr. Madoff, you are a bad man. I sentence you to 150 years in a pound-me-in-the-ass prison. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madoffs-sentence/500717/70 "2009-06-30T15:27:13Z")
[HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/30/madoff-probe-10-others-to_n_222893.html) It is not over. Apparently logic finally was used and the law determined Madoff could not have done it alone. I wonder if his wife will be exposed as a co conspirator? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madoffs-sentence/500717/71 "2009-06-30T15:44:01Z")
Yup, sounds like 10 other people are going to be charged, and about time. I think it’s more about the fact that it took time to build a case, though, not somebody just realizing he couldn’t have done this alone. I think it was clear to most people from the beginning that he had help. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madoffs-sentence/500717/72 "2009-06-30T15:52:24Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Not that I’m defending Madoff, but if you murder someone in NY, you can get parole in 25 years. Cheating investors out of money is 6 times worse than murdering someone? How many suicides? How many early deaths though ill-health? How many people working themselves to death instead of retiring? The guy should be hanged. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madoffs-sentence/500717/73 "2009-06-30T16:08:50Z")
The SEC should be shredded for this fiasco. They were handed evidence and mathematical proof of what was going on regularly since 2000. They did not do their job. Everybody directly involved in SEC decisions should become public knowledge. It was regulation at its’ worst. This should not be swept under the rug. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madoffs-sentence/500717/74 "2009-06-30T20:32:03Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > Immoral. Irrational. Not a deterrent. > > If the max penalty was the death penalty and a precedence were established, would Madoff have still committed these crimes? Hard to say, but I’d say that it’s very likely that he would. Even when there is a crime in which the death penalty is the penalty, people still commit those crimes. I assume you believe that because the death penalty is present, that people don’t commit nearly as many of those crimes because of the death penalty. That reflects upon your view of human nature, not mine. So the death penalty is NEVER a deterrent? My view of human nature is that people want to live, preferably outside of prison walls. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madoffs-sentence/500717/75 "2009-06-30T20:35:43Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The SEC should be shredded for this fiasco. They were handed evidence and mathematical proof of what was going on regularly since 2000. They did not do their job. Everybody directly involved in SEC decisions should become public knowledge. It was regulation at its’ worst. This should not be swept under the rug. This has been the attitude at goernment agencies since the small government, no regulation crowd moved into DC. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madoffs-sentence/500717/76 "2009-06-30T21:02:28Z")
Markopolus ,an Independent Fraud Investigator, handed the case to the SEC in 2000-2001-2005 1nd 2008. If they acted in 2000 his theft might have been in the 7 billion range. By 2005 he had swiped about 30 billion. They did not do their jobs. Markopolus said the mathematics showed Madoffs claims were impossible. He wrapped it up and sent the info to them over and over. The SEC needs to be gutted. Markopolus testified in front of congress trying to get his point across. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madoffs-sentence/500717/77 "2009-06-30T22:16:38Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > So the death penalty is NEVER a deterrent? My view of human nature is that people want to live, preferably outside of prison walls. Precisely. That’s why life in prison is the ultimate punishment. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madoffs-sentence/500717/78 "2009-07-01T02:54:08Z")
Whatever. I only hope he stays in good health and lives at least 20 more years before he goes to hell. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madoffs-sentence/500717/79 "2009-07-02T18:38:19Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [Best Places To Go To Prison](http://www.forbes.com/2006/04/17/best-prisons-federal_cx_lr_06slate_0418bestprisons.html) Here is a list of Fed prisons including special amenities. They include tennis, bocce, full weight rooms, etc. Your link does say that the days of Club Fed are long gone. It also mentions several CEO’s that went to medium security prisons which I’m sure are no picnic. Dan Rostenkowski didn’t even get to serve time in one of the 12 best prisons in your link. Larry Levine, CNN’s prison expert, believes that Madoff will go to a medium security where he will be terrified for his life because people will want to get him. [Link.](http://amfix.blogs.cnn.com/2009/06/30/ex-con-bernie-wont-be-too-popular-behind-bars/) I usually attempt to be compassionate but in this case, I have no sympathy for the man. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madoffs-sentence/500717/80 "2009-07-02T20:24:41Z")
Some thoughts on the Madoff affair: First, nothing I say should be interpreted as a defense of Madoff. I think he deserves every minute of the sentence he got. I have absolutely no sympathy for him. I also think his sons were in on the whole thing, and there’s a good chance his wife knew what was up too. And his accountants. And any number of his employees. It is simply not possible that he ran an operation on that scale entirely on his own. I’d like to see them all do time. After due process, of course. That said, here’s what bugs me about the whole thing. It was fairly common knowledge in the financial industry that Madoff was up to something. I have access to a fair amount of gossip in that area, and the first time I heard Madoff’s name mentioned, with the implication that something questionable was going on, was quite a while before his arrest. People weren’t quite sure what exactly he was doing, but they were pretty sure it was something fishy. Most seemed to think it was some kind of insider trading, most likely front-running. Harry Markopolos is the only one of whom I’m aware that mentioned the possibility of a Ponzi scheme (at least in writing). The people who ran the feeder funds (i.e., people who held themselves out as hedge fund or other investment fund managers, but who simply put all the money that came to them into Madoff’s fund(s)) absolutely knew something was up. They had the expertise to know, and they went ahead and put their money into Madoff’s operation anyway, without doing any due diligence whatsoever, without any evidence that Madoff had executed so much as a single trade in years. Many, maybe most, of the people who put their money into Madoff’s operation knew that the returns they were getting year after year were implausible, if not actually impossible. Many (maybe not most) were in a position to hear the gossip on Wall Street about Madoff’s impossible returns, and the ways in which he was achieving those returns (we’re back to the insider trading or front-running thing again). They didn’t care, as long as they got theirs. And Madoff isn’t the only one, not by a long shot. There have been a couple of arrests, a couple of SEC actions, and there will be more. But nobody cared, as long as the money was rolling in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madoffs-sentence/500717.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madoffs-sentence/500717.md?page=5)