# "Madonna loses adoption bid" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 4, 2009, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madonna-loses-adoption-bid/491957 "2009-04-04T09:07:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Amber\_in\_Treasury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Amber\_in\_Treasury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amber_in_Treasury)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madonna-loses-adoption-bid/491957/1 "2009-04-04T09:07:05Z")
[http://uk.news.yahoo.com/1/20090403/ten-madonna-loses-adoption-bid-c60bd6d.html](http://uk.news.yahoo.com/1/20090403/ten-madonna-loses-adoption-bid-c60bd6d.html) Pffffft. Doesn’t she know that exotic babies as accessories are so 2007? ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madonna-loses-adoption-bid/491957/2 "2009-04-04T10:06:33Z")
What, so our unstable middle-aged nymphoniacs are being discriminated against in Malawi?How uncivilized! ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madonna-loses-adoption-bid/491957/3 "2009-04-04T10:24:40Z")
I may be harsh but I agree that these people seem to believe exotic adoptees are really cool rather than really wishing to provide the best care for the child. I would love to be proven wrong. 20 years will tell. ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Hen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ad7895/32.png) [@Small\_Hen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Hen)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madonna-loses-adoption-bid/491957/4 "2009-04-04T18:16:54Z")
I gotta say - even if Madonna’s just looking for an accessory, that child will probably have a much nicer life as her handbag than he would have as an orphan in Malawi. ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madonna-loses-adoption-bid/491957/5 "2009-04-04T19:24:47Z")
The kid Madonna wants to adopt is currently in an orphanage. The average life expectancy in Malawi is about 40 years. It’s not like Madonna is ripping the kid from a safe, comfortable life with a loving family who can provide for her. The article about this on NPR’s site mentions that Madonna first became interested in Malawi while filming a documentary about the impact AIDS has had on the country. She has also been contributing to charitable efforts in the country like building schools and providing medical care to the orphans: [http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=102709248&ft=1&f=1004](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=102709248&ft=1&f=1004) I know it is fashionable to assume that people who are richer than us must be morally bankrupt, but I can believe that Madonna has genuine compassion for the people of Malawi and is trying to help these kids. I think it is extremely short-sighted and harmful to the child to stop Madonna from offering the kid a better life. Most Westerners don’t even notice or care that African children die horrible preventable deaths every day, so the last thing I would do is judge someone who has the means to help one of those kids. I don’t believe most people would do something as big as adopting a child just to be trendy…but if it _is_ “trendy” to adopt underprivileged kids, I think it’s a useful trend. We need fewer Octomoms and more Angelina Jolies in this world. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madonna-loses-adoption-bid/491957/6 "2009-04-04T19:43:48Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > I know it is fashionable to assume that people who are richer than us must be morally bankrupt, but I can believe that Madonna has genuine compassion for the people of Malawi and is trying to help these kids. I think it is extremely short-sighted and harmful to the child to stop Madonna from offering the kid a better life. > Most Westerners don’t even notice or care that African children die horrible preventable deaths every day, so the last thing I would do is judge someone who has the means to help one of those kids. > > I don’t believe most people would do something as big as adopting a child just to be trendy…but if it _is_ “trendy” to adopt underprivileged kids, I think it’s a useful trend. We need fewer Octomoms and more Angelina Jolies in this world. Thank you. I can’t believe how soullessly hateful people are, who would rather see a child languish in an orphanage and live a miserable life than be adopted by someone who obviously loves children and wants to make a difference in the world. But she’s Madonna, and so it’s fashionable to bash her motives, to hell with the child. The child can die young and unloved for all they care. ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Hen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ad7895/32.png) [@Small\_Hen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Hen)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madonna-loses-adoption-bid/491957/7 "2009-04-05T04:43:28Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > The kid Madonna wants to adopt is currently in an orphanage. The average life expectancy in Malawi is about 40 years. It’s not like Madonna is ripping the kid from a safe, comfortable life with a loving family who can provide for her. > The article about this on NPR’s site mentions that Madonna first became interested in Malawi while filming a documentary about the impact AIDS has had on the country. She has also been contributing to charitable efforts in the country like building schools and providing medical care to the orphans: [http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=102709248&ft=1&f=1004](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=102709248&ft=1&f=1004) > > I know it is fashionable to assume that people who are richer than us must be morally bankrupt, but I can believe that Madonna has genuine compassion for the people of Malawi and is trying to help these kids. I think it is extremely short-sighted and harmful to the child to stop Madonna from offering the kid a better life. > Most Westerners don’t even notice or care that African children die horrible preventable deaths every day, so the last thing I would do is judge someone who has the means to help one of those kids. > > I don’t believe most people would do something as big as adopting a child just to be trendy…but if it _is_ “trendy” to adopt underprivileged kids, I think it’s a useful trend. We need fewer Octomoms and more Angelina Jolies in this world. ^Um…what I meant. ---
**Author:** ![Darryl\_Lict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Darryl\_Lict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darryl_Lict)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madonna-loses-adoption-bid/491957/8 "2009-04-05T09:43:02Z")
I’ve been to Malawi, and for sure that kid would be way better off with Madonna, even if he was in a nanny’s care all day long. There are plenty of people starving to death there. It’s largely rural, but also highly densely populated, so people struggle even to do subsistence farming. I’m pretty sure they are highly dependent on outside aid. Lovely country though and the people are some of the friendliest you’ll meet anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madonna-loses-adoption-bid/491957/9 "2009-04-05T13:36:14Z")
From what I read in the newspaper, the fact that it was a foreigner at all trying to expirite the adoption processes outside the rules was the kicker. The judge seemed to be ok with the adoption but felt that it would have set a dangerous precedent in child adoption, and that would then open themselves up to human trafficking issues. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madonna-loses-adoption-bid/491957/10 "2009-04-05T16:01:34Z")
I agree with and applaud the judge’s ruling. Third world countries are not shopping malls for rich Westerners to pick up kids. If she wants to help a poor child I’m sure there are many children in the US who could benefit. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madonna-loses-adoption-bid/491957/11 "2009-04-05T16:16:40Z")
Is that true? I was under the impression that if you wanted to adopt a baby from an American mother you have to be a couple in a longterm relationship, both under 40, and at least middle-class in income, assuming that you do a public adoption. You could do a private adoption, but that will cost a lot more. You could do a foreign adoption, but that will also cost a lot. I was under impression that there just aren’t enough babies being put up for adoption by American mothers to satisfy the number of Americans wanting to adopt. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madonna-loses-adoption-bid/491957/12 "2009-04-06T03:45:45Z")
Adoption was done by movie stars all the time in the 30s and 40s, when stars had to make 3 or 4 movies a year and couldn’t afford to take 9 months off. Of course there were enough American orphans at that time. So what if Malawi won’t let her adopt. It only became fashionable because of Madonna. She’ll just go somewhere else. There are loads of kids in Brazil, India, Indonesia, all over that are just waiting to be adopted. Since Madonna likes controversy so much, I’m surprised she hasn’t tried to adopt from a Muslim nation. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madonna-loses-adoption-bid/491957/13 "2009-04-06T04:01:30Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Is that true? I was under the impression that if you wanted to adopt a baby from an American mother you have to be a couple in a longterm relationship, both under 40, and at least middle-class in income, assuming that you do a public adoption. You could do a private adoption, but that will cost a lot more. You could do a foreign adoption, but that will also cost a lot. I was under impression that there just aren’t enough babies being put up for adoption by American mothers to satisfy the number of Americans wanting to adopt. I know that Sheryl Crow is almost 50, not married and on the road with her work alot of the time… I think her adopted son is American from birth (by any means he looks Caucasian). It just seems that wealthy, famous people can often get around rules or guidelines that average people can not; though it did not work out that way for Madonna this time. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madonna-loses-adoption-bid/491957/14 "2009-04-06T06:22:57Z")
Sheryl Crow is not an exception to the rule that I gave. Her adoption of her son was a private adoption. A private adoption means that instead of going through a public adoption agency, you hire a lawyer who goes to a pregnant woman (presumably an unmarried woman who thinks that she can’t afford a child) and offers her a large sum of money to allow you to adopt her baby when it is born. This is considerably more expensive than a public adoption, and most people who do it are very well off. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madonna-loses-adoption-bid/491957/15 "2009-04-06T08:02:29Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > So what if Malawi won’t let her adopt. It only became fashionable because of Madonna. She’ll just go somewhere else. She bonded and fell in love with _that particular little girl_, and spent a year and a half trying to adopt _that particular little girl_. _That particular little girl_ is 4 years old and is named Chifundo. _That particular little girl_ had almost certainly come to assume that she would at some point get to go home with her new mommy and brothers and sister. _That particular little girl_ now has to be told that soulless creatures with hate in their heart and ice water in their bloodstreams and lumps of coal in their souls have decided that she’s better off in an orphanage, that she’s better off with no mother, that she’s better off with no brothers and sisters, that she’s better off miserable and unloved, that she’s better off without being part of a family, that she’s better off desperately poor. Because…? Well, just to prove a point I guess. “Chifundo” means “Mercy” in her native language. No mercy for her I guess. Who gives a shit about her? Well, Madonna did. Lourdes did. Rocco did. David did. Guy Ritchie did (the adoption plans were afoot before their breakup AFAIK). > [@Markxxx](#): > > There are loads of kids in Brazil, India, Indonesia, all over that are just waiting to be adopted. You’re treating _that particular child_ like an unimportant nobody. Worse. Sleep well man, sleep well. What the fuck is wrong with some people anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madonna-loses-adoption-bid/491957/16 "2009-04-06T12:11:16Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > She bonded and fell in love with _that particular little girl_, and spent a year and a half trying to adopt _that particular little girl_. I know you’re passionate about this, but even the news articles about it can’t seem to keep the details straight. If you go to Google News and search on “madonna adoption”, half of them say she met Mercy a year ago while others say they met just a week ago. The same thing with the family’s reaction. Some say “the rich foreigner is trying to steal our baby” while others say the family think she’d be better off with Madonna. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madonna-loses-adoption-bid/491957/17 "2009-04-06T13:20:50Z")
When Mia & Andre Previn wanted to adopt Soon-Yi, they were rejected because at the time the quota was two and they already had adopted Daisy & Lark. They fought to have the law overturned. We all know how THAT turned out. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madonna-loses-adoption-bid/491957/18 "2009-04-06T13:29:10Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > From what I read in the newspaper, the fact that it was a foreigner at all trying to expirite the adoption processes outside the rules was the kicker. The judge seemed to be ok with the adoption but felt that it would have set a dangerous precedent in child adoption, and that would then open themselves up to human trafficking issues. That’s pretty much where I have issues with celebrity adoption. There are LOTS of people willing to adopt these kids - friends have been waiting for a year to adopt from Nepal. Yet celebrities go into third world countries and manage to get kids in timeframes that are not realistic, in situations where adoption is closed, or having rules bent that are in place for everyone else (such as must be married). In the meantime, countries are closed down by the UN on suspicion of baby selling and human trafficking. (Adoptive parent of child from Korea). ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madonna-loses-adoption-bid/491957/19 "2009-04-06T13:32:41Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Is that true? I was under the impression that if you wanted to adopt a baby from an American mother you have to be a couple in a longterm relationship, both under 40, and at least middle-class in income, assuming that you do a public adoption. You could do a private adoption, but that will cost a lot more. You could do a foreign adoption, but that will also cost a lot. I was under impression that there just aren’t enough babies being put up for adoption by American mothers to satisfy the number of Americans wanting to adopt. Adoption laws vary greatly by state. In Minnesota there are almost no closed domestic adoptions of infants through social service agencies. The birth mother almost always picks (and can pick anyone she wants who are of legal age and can pass a homestudy - single gay guy, married couple). The other likely scenario is children who are in the hands of social services - those adoptions almost always (in Minnesota) happen through foster care placement - the types of people you are talking about are not terribly likely to participate in the foster care program and go private. ETA: Private adoptions are not necessarily very expensive. My pseudo sister in law (complicated relationship) has an adopted son that they adopted for less than $3k about fifteen years ago. They were looking, they knew someone through their church who wanted to find parents for her baby - they just needed a homestudy and some legal paperwork. The search can be expensive, but if you get lucky - the adoption isn’t necessarily expensive. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madonna-loses-adoption-bid/491957/20 "2009-04-06T13:46:49Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > That’s pretty much where I have issues with celebrity adoption. There are LOTS of people willing to adopt these kids - friends have been waiting for a year to adopt from Nepal. Yet celebrities go into third world countries and manage to get kids in timeframes that are not realistic, in situations where adoption is closed, or having rules bent that are in place for everyone else (such as must be married). In the meantime, countries are closed down by the UN on suspicion of baby selling and human trafficking. > > (Adoptive parent of child from Korea). Have your friends tried for an African child? Or are they holding out for Asian? (Almost as good as White.) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/madonna-loses-adoption-bid/491957.md?page=2)