# Mafia: Baker Street \[Game in progress\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 7, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752 "2014-02-07T14:39:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/221 "2014-02-14T21:19:42Z")
Oh **Pizza** , whilst we are talking play styles and stuff: you complain that I like to ask little questions of people – paraphrasing you, but that’s the gist. I know I did that when we scummed together but I think I do that in every game. And in real life too fwiw. I wish more people asked each other direct specific questions actually. In Mafia, and in life. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/222 "2014-02-14T21:25:46Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Your main defense is that you didn’t know we couldn’t post our entire rules because of an earlier storyteller game. Sight. Roles, not rules. I suck today with the wordenings. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/223 "2014-02-14T21:28:12Z")
**Vote DaphneBlack** 1. I’ve been pinged by her (can’t be “his,” right?!) posts, and find Pizza’s reasoning helps me understand my own. I struggled to articulate my thoughts last night and found I couldn’t, so I side-lined my feelings until something more substantial happened. Pizza’s analysis tells me it’s not just me feeling that way. 2. it’s gonna sound absolutely ridiculous, but I mean it honestly: third vote. DaphneBlack placed the third vote on Silver Jan, and as much as we joke around about it, retrospective analysis of our recent past games suggested it’s still frighteningly accurate. Any time I place a new multivitote, I’ll try to rank them based on preference. Right now, I’d prefer DaphneBlack was lynched over Silver Jan. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/224 "2014-02-14T21:48:50Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Idle claiming vanilla immediately scores him townie points because he literally cannot be a scumbag with night actions unless he’s willing to potentially be found guilty by a tracker or watcher. Does the fact that there’s no Night in this game change your calculus at all? There are literally no scumbags with night actions in this game, period. I don’t remember if I’ve played with DaphneBlack before or not, but I’m a little surprised that not only did Idle’s claim not generate a reaction on her part but she found it townie. **Vote DaphneBlack** And a raspberry to wevets. ---
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/225 "2014-02-14T22:49:17Z")
I know that **Idle** always claims. This claim seems townie to me, what can I say? **vote Astral Rejection** I’ve found rather that people who seize on “third vote = scum” are scum looking for an easy vote, or laaaazy townies. Boo. These are some thin votes. Accepting Idle’s claim is pretty controversial – I admit I’m surprised by that. I made a snap judgement on it, and the notion that scum could have cover roles has made me reconsider a little bit, but I am reading Idle as being pretty much usual townie Idle, _in toto_, not just the claim, so I’m not backing off my read for now. I have no special knowledge about Idle however. ---
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/226 "2014-02-14T22:50:18Z")
**Any chance of a vote count, O Most Supreme Mod?** ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/227 "2014-02-14T22:56:36Z")
**sinjin** ’s attacks on **Mahaloth** read like typical over-enthusiastic reaction on a possible slip by a co-player. > [@sinjin](#): > > You did it twice in this game!! > > Storyteller spelled out the dangers in the clarification of the rules POST #55 on page two of this long, long thread of 4 actual pages so far. > > You first posted about everyone revealing their clues in POST #90 on the same page! Most of the discussion on that page before and after your post was about the unintended consequences and dangers of revealing clues. > > Astral Rejection in POST #96 quoted the relevant portion of Story’s warning about clues. > > At the top of page 3 in POST #103 you again suggested that every one reveal their clues, admitting it might be a reckless thing to do and completely ignoring all of the previous discussion. > > In POST #108 Captain Klutz referenced Story’s post (not with a link or quote). > > In POST #120 by DaphneBlack calls you out specifically and tells you that the mod has said that revealing all the clues may backfire on us. > > And yet in POST #158, quoted above, you are still totally ignorant of Storyteller’s warning. > > I am even more suspicious of you now! You ignored the rules clarification post, it seems you didn’t read any of the discussion before your first post, nor that which took place between your first and second posts and apparently still had not read any of it when you POSTed #158. You appear to be woefully ignorant of what is going on in this thread. Scummy, scummy, scum. Note that this doesn’t tell us anything about **Mahaloth** at all, but I’m pretty sure **sinjin** is town-aligned because of this reaction. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/228 "2014-02-14T22:59:13Z")
> [@DaphneBlack](#): > > (snip) > > I have no special knowledge about Idle however. Methinks thou dost protest too much. **vote DaphneBlack** ---
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/229 "2014-02-14T23:38:43Z")
?? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/230 "2014-02-14T23:48:24Z")
[QUOTE=Idle Thoughts] Welcome to the game; you are **Estelle** Anderson … Dear _Mrs._ Anderson – [/QUOTE] > [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > If you’re being serious, you know I’m male, right? 😕 😕 (But mine is a weakish Day 1 vote.) ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Klutz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captain_klutz/32/4993_2.png) [@Captain\_Klutz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Klutz)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/231 "2014-02-15T00:55:58Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Does the fact that there’s no Night in this game change your calculus at all? There are literally no scumbags with night actions in this game, period. Yes, there are no “Night” actions, but there are still actions. They just all get resolved at dusk, along with the lynch. So a claimed vanilla can still be caught by a tracker or watcher. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/232 "2014-02-15T01:18:27Z")
OK, here comes stupid me again who may have questions that come out of skimming. Or perhaps I’m just dense. What is the point of even having clues if we don’t know whose clues are true? Perhaps we have a person who can determine the validity of clues? But if that is the case, they have to reveal themselves to confirm anyone’s clues. If we don’t have that, don’t we have to reveal our clues just to find out which ones contradict each other? ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/233 "2014-02-15T01:27:47Z")
Quote: > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by sinjin View Post > > Yes, in overly powered games town does seem to rely on power roles to a ridiculous extent. What does that have to do with the scums ability to “smell the way the wind is blowing?” And why would scums not “know who is about to be lynched” in a mostly vanilla game vs a powered game? This makes no sense to me. > > > > Several folks have brought up the fact that STORYTELLER himself said that posting your clue might be damaging to your team. If your clue cannot damage town then post it. > > > > And here you go again. Urging town to do something that the MOD has said could be a bad idea and you don’t care. > > > > Vote Mahaloth. I don’t subscribe to the “scums wouldn’t do that” line of thought. > > > > [snip] > > He then goes on to vote me, too. > > I don’t subscribe to a thing Sinjin just said. > > I like the aggression, but all of it seems entirely misplaced. The first paragraph you quoted above were questions I was asking about your reasoning.I note you didn’t answer the questions I asked of you in that post. Did anyone else understand what Pizza was talking about? As far as skimming: Just a bit of history in the last game I played on Idles board, we caught a scum early on because he forgot which two town died overnight on I think the first page of the next Day thread. I pushed for that lynch and he turned up scum. It’s not just skimming; it’s skimming about things that are important to TOWN! Scum know all their clues are true and probably have a good idea which of theirs could hurt them. Town does not know that, hence all the comments on the advisability of releasing clues. And I’m a she as Idle corrected some else above. Guess you missed that. And talk about pot/kettle, If I’m aggressive what are you? ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/234 "2014-02-15T01:31:00Z")
NETA: > [@](#): > > I don’t subscribe to a thing Sinjin just said. So you don’t subscribe to this: > [@](#): > > Several folks have brought up the fact that STORYTELLER himself said that posting your clue might be damaging to your team. If your clue cannot damage town then post it. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Klutz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captain_klutz/32/4993_2.png) [@Captain\_Klutz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Klutz)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/235 "2014-02-15T01:32:16Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Your main defense is that you didn’t know we couldn’t post our entire rules because of an earlier storyteller game. I don’t have the context to judge that claim, so (assuming it’s kosher to do so) I’ll just ask for a link to that game. That game was [New Caanan Town Hall](http://psychopathgame.proboards.com/board/13/new-caanan-town-hall), a replicant themed game. (I played in it too) Idle is in the habit of claiming on Day 1, usually in his first post. It’s a null tell as far as I am concerned. Incidentally, since we are allowed to quote PMs, it is virtually certain that scum have been provided with cover roles. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Klutz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captain_klutz/32/4993_2.png) [@Captain\_Klutz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Klutz)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/236 "2014-02-15T01:54:26Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > OK, here comes stupid me again who may have questions that come out of skimming. Or perhaps I’m just dense. > > What is the point of even having clues if we don’t know whose clues are true? Perhaps we have a person who can determine the validity of clues? But if that is the case, they have to reveal themselves to confirm anyone’s clues. > > If we don’t have that, don’t we have to reveal our clues just to find out which ones contradict each other? I think the clues are a bit of a red herring to give us something to talk about on Day 1. Their validity can (probably) only be determined in retrospect. That can still be useful, for example if 12 clues have been shown to be false then some of those people must be scum. For now though, they are just info of dubious reliabilty. It would be dangerous to vote for someone principally on the basis of a clue. Scum have 2 big advantages with the clues: they can share their clues amongst themselves and they know that all of theirs are true. That extra information could well allow them to glean info from clues that town can’t. But you have said that, based on your clue, you would be in favour of all of us posting our clues. If you think that your clue is more useful to town than scum, feel free to post it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/237 "2014-02-15T02:44:20Z")
OK, this is mostly going to be in response to **Pizza** , just because he’s done a lot of talking: > [@](#): > > Idle claiming vanilla immediately scores him townie points because he literally cannot be a scumbag with night actions unless he’s willing to potentially be found guilty by a tracker or watcher. > > Scums who are not vanilla should never claim to be vanilla townies. Vanilla claims are far safer for Scum than power claims are. Anyone who claims a power role first of all risks a counterclaim, and second must account for how they’re using their powers. Both of those are always risky. Claiming vanilla is only risky _if_ you’re doing something active _and_ there’s either a tracker in the game or a very lucky watcher. > [@](#): > > Again, I feel Daphne is quick to hand out the townie card. Her posts also continue to read unnaturally to me. And yet, you’re handing out the townie card to the same person, based on the same post. > [@](#): > > I think this vote does nothing to find scum. How do you figure? If **Mahaloth** turns out to be Scum, it’ll do a lot to find Scum. Now, I don’t _know_ whether he’s Scum… do you? > [@](#): > > I don’t agree with her conclusion, or how she reached it. > > I think the real reason she accepted the claim is because she knows already who is townie and who isn’t. > > I think this post is an outright lie, in fact. Maybe I’m seeing things that aren’t there but I disbelieve almost everything Daphne has said so far. Funny, whatever else you might say about **Daphne** , I think that post is 100% true. I’m sure that she doesn’t have any idea who Estelle Anderson is, because _nobody_ has any idea who Estelle Anderson is. Google doesn’t have any idea, either. > [@](#): > > My clue also means I’d never vote for Langdale Pike. > > If my clue is true, he has false information and is therefore townie. > > If my clue is false, he has real information, but his real name is Langdale Pike, not James Moriarty. > > So, uh, keep hidden, dude. You missed a third possibility: Your clue is false, and Langdale Pike doesn’t exist. If that’s the case, then anyone claiming to be him is lying and should be lynched. If. Which means that, if someone does eventually claim to be Langdale Pike, your clue doesn’t really tell us what that person’s alignment is. And just for a change, something posted by **Astral Rejection** : > [@](#): > > 1. I’ve been pinged by her (can’t be “his,” right?!) posts, and find Pizza’s reasoning helps me understand my own. I struggled to articulate my thoughts last night and found I couldn’t, so I side-lined my feelings until something more substantial happened. Pizza’s analysis tells me it’s not just me feeling that way. Vague “pings” don’t mean anything, and **Pizza** ’s reasoning on **Daphne** is basically nonexistent. Or are you saying that you just want to know someone else suspects a person before you’ll vote for them? Because that’s not really great, either. I dunno, maybe **Pizza** really does just suck this much at playing as Town, though I doubt it. But who’s worse, the fool or the fool who follows him? **Vote Askthepizzaguy Vote Astral Rejection** ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Klutz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captain_klutz/32/4993_2.png) [@Captain\_Klutz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Klutz)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/238 "2014-02-15T03:56:14Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > My clue also means I’d never vote for Langdale Pike. > > If my clue is true, he has false information and is therefore townie. > > If my clue is false, he has real information, but his real name is Langdale Pike, not James Moriarty. > > So, uh, keep hidden, dude. Okay, if he is Langdale Pike then he is not James Moriarty. But how does that stop him from being scum? ---
**Author:** ![Dizzymrslizzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Dizzymrslizzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dizzymrslizzy)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/239 "2014-02-15T04:00:37Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Dizzy has historically reacted to the style and strategy of my play with this reaction. I don’t think I’ve ever done anything in the early game she’s approved of. She is also immensely paranoid about me. > > Posts like these get my attention because they single me out as being different from other players. Others vote randomly day one, but it’s me she focuses on. > > It’s typical Dizzy and I can’t detect anything abnormal about it. Neutral. > > Also, since Dizzy and I have such wildly different views about the game, I’m liable to try to discuss the approach with her so she can grok what I’m thinking and vice-versa. It would be a nice change of pace to see eye-to-eye. LOL…First of all Pizza my dear, there have been more than one game that I have seen eye to eye with you 🙂 The current one on GB is one of those rare occurrences. I also as I have been playing with you a few games now, don’t see you as much of a threat as I once did, I actually quite enjoy figuring out the Pizza Mind Fuckary game you throw down. I’m a little guarded, but my words with you here are merely in jest for Today :). And I said before it’s not YOU I hate the random votes for, I historically vote any player who uses [random.org](http://random.org) for D1 votes 🙂 I don’t like em. I think they are lazy, oh well. I can agree to disagree on it. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Klutz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captain_klutz/32/4993_2.png) [@Captain\_Klutz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Klutz)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/240 "2014-02-15T04:18:16Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > I see\*\* Sinjin\*\* has it right, it’s an early D1 vote but it has a reason behind it. I have already started thinking about why **Pizza** has posted so much about random votes, is it to have a high post count so that he looks involved while pretty much saying nothing because he is scum. A few posts later: > [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > I’m not ready to vote for you because I think you are just being Pizza. You even said that would happen once the voting gets started. If you think he was just being Pizza, then why did you suggest that it had scum motivation? **Vote Silver Jan** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752.md?page=13)