# Mafia: Baker Street \[Game in progress\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 7, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752 "2014-02-07T14:39:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/281 "2014-02-16T16:50:17Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > What am I missing? I’ve pretty much ruled out every possibility, so I’m making a mistake somewhere. 1. Story gave two Townies the same clue. Maybe he was running out of good clues; or maybe it’s a little “WiFoM” by the Mod. I won’t even speculate whether the clue is most likely true or false, an issue which seems interesting mostly in how it affects the probability that _other_ Town clues are true. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/282 "2014-02-16T16:53:15Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > I need to go back and reread the cases on DaphneBlack and Silver Jan now. By the way, what happened to this promised reread? Normally I’d assign a small value of potential scumminess to a post like this (scum seem to often “need to reread” and then never commit), but yesterday was Valentine’s Day and I didn’t post much either, so it’s more of a wash now. I’d still like your feelings on their cases. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/283 "2014-02-16T16:55:56Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > 1. Story gave two Townies the same clue. Maybe he was running out of good clues; or maybe it’s a little “WiFoM” by the Mod. For sure a possibility. If we assume Scathach and gnarlycharlie are town, we can also assume their clues are both 100% true, since I can’t believe Story would waste his fake clues on a matching set of falses. Which is another bit of weirdness thrown in… since I also struggle to believe he’d waste two TRUE answers on a matched set, unless he thought it was absolutely vital we know that ties were decided randomly… which isn’t really earth-shattering, since we shouldn’t be tying anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Scathach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Scathach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scathach)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/284 "2014-02-16T17:14:54Z")
Yeah, I was a little surprised, but I just thought “huh, guess the clues aren’t unique”. I did consider that maybe clues are doubled up so that it’s less likely for town to completely lose information via a mislynch? ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/285 "2014-02-16T17:23:03Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > 1. I don’t believe two town players would get the same clue. > [@septimus](#): > > 1. Story gave two Townies the same clue. Maybe he was running out of good clues; or maybe it’s a little “WiFoM” by the Mod. I’m not sure why Septimus felt compelled to make a new number to discuss Astral’s first one. If skimming were a scum tell… I continue to think that revealing clues is a bad thing. I’ve already voted Gnarly for revealing his clue. It’s definitely odd that they are both the same clue. I think it more likely that one is a scum cover clue. **vote: Scathach** ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/286 "2014-02-16T17:25:34Z")
> [@Scathach](#): > > Yeah, I was a little surprised, but I just thought “huh, guess the clues aren’t unique”. I did consider that maybe clues are doubled up so that it’s less likely for town to completely lose information via a mislynch? It’s certainly a possibility. It just seems weird when it would eat into our quota of false clues or true clues. ---
**Author:** ![Scathach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Scathach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scathach)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/287 "2014-02-16T17:27:04Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > I continue to think that revealing clues is a bad thing. I’ve already voted Gnarly for revealing his clue. It’s definitely odd that they are both the same clue. I think it more likely that one is a scum cover clue. > **vote: Scathach** Bleh, that’s a terrible vote. What on earth would my motivation be if I was scum to claim to have the same clue that someone else has. It would only draw attention. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/288 "2014-02-16T17:28:53Z")
> [@Scathach](#): > > Bleh, that’s a terrible vote. Yeah, I kinda agree. Texcat, it’s better if you choose one or the other. No gordian knot was ever resolved by burning the whole thing. You’re really casting no vote for either. Which do you find scummier? ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/289 "2014-02-16T17:32:20Z")
Out of game: I just noticed the peanut gallery thread (Mrs Hudson’s teatime whatever). If you’ve never played here before, that thread is off-limits to active players. It should remain spoiler-free as the title says, but it’s bad form to read non-players’ interpretations of events. /OOG ---
**Author:** ![Scathach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Scathach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scathach)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/290 "2014-02-16T17:56:01Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > The clues so far: > Chronos: CLUE: James Moriarty, the Scum leader, can lose his Godfather status under some conditions. [91](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17100201&postcount=91) > Dizzy: CLUE: Scum players have all been given complete, detailed false identities, including clues. [118](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17101704&postcount=118) > Gnarly: CLUE: All ties are resolved via [random.org](http://random.org). [186](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17104479&postcount=186) > Septimus: CLUE: One Scum player, a woman, has a power that targets protective roles. If her target is protected, the player doing the protecting will die. [187](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17104591&postcount=187) > Pizza: CLUE: A man named Langdale Pike is in possession of false information that should be ignored. [210](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17105750&postcount=210) > > How are these clues helpful to Town, even if true? Chronos’ clue is helpful to Town because we learn that M is a Godfather. It is more helpful to M, in that he learns he might lose that status. Dizzy’s clue is helpful, but we might have deduced it. Gnarly’s clue is entirely unhelpful. We didn’t know how ties resolved before, and all this tells us is that they are resolved randomly. Not any better than not knowing. Besides we know ties are bad, and in a multi-vote game they are easier to resolve. Septimus uses his clue as an excuse to vote Idle. Pizza’s might be useful if we knew who Langdale Pike is. > > I would vote Septimus out of this bunch, but I already have. > **vote: Gnarly** > for risking helping scum while not helping town at all You know what, \*\* vote Texcat \*\*. It was one thing when I thought you were policy voting everyone who revealed a clue, but I don’t follow the reasoning here at all. You directly point out that Chronos’s clue could be helpful to scum, then point out that gnarlycharlie’s clue has no use at all. Then vote gnarlycharlie because his useless clue might be helpful to scum? I really struggle to see how it could possibly be to be honest. Then voting me because I said I had a duplicate clue (of one that was already revealed). Which surely can’t fall under the “gives information to scum” because it was information that was already out there? You say it might be a cover role, but frankly not only do I think it would be unlikely for me to blithely reveal the duplicate if I was scum, I actually think it would be unfair of Storyteller to provide cover roles with such an easy way to out them. In short, I don’t think your votes make sense or are consistent. And since you’re usually a player that makes clear convincing cases I think that’s scummy. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/291 "2014-02-16T17:59:08Z")
Here is my promised read-through. This was typed up in notepad as I took notes while reading, so apologies in advance for any typos. **DaphneBlack** \*\*ATGP \*\*(211): Voted for “giving out townie cards way too easily.” \*\*Astral \*\*(223): Vague ping reinforced by Pizza’s vote + “third vote.” \*\*Inner \*\*\*\*Stickler \*\*(224): Voted Daphne for not finding Idle’s claim suspicious, I think? \*\*DiggitCamara \*\*(228): “Methinks thou dost protest too much.” \*\*Septimus \*\*(252): “I like Pizza’s case.” **Silver Jan** \*\*Astral \*\*(190): Aggregrate of small things. \*\*ATPG \*\*(211): Agrees with Astral’s case. \*\*DaphneBlack \*\*(220): “No concrete evidence.” “keen to avoid responsbility.” **CaptainKlutz** : For suggesting that pizza has scum motivation even though it’s just “pizza being pizza.” Alright. After going back through it, I’m not sure I see the case on **DaphneBlack** , since it largely boils down to people agreeing with **Pizza** , and I can’t put much weight into any case made by \*\*pizza \*\*on Day 1 even if I think he’s town. With **Silver Jan** it may be that I don’t quite UNDERSTAND the case that **Astral Rejection** first makes against her, but I’m not getting a scum read. However, here’s what I do see. I see that \*\*DaphneBlack \*\*has voted on both the second and third place lynchees. She voted for \*\*Daphne \*\*for “no concrete evidence,” which seems like a straight bandwagon vote, and she voted for \*\*Astral \*\*for the “third vote” vote, which seems kind of legit but still bandwagony. I also see \*\*DiggitCamara \*\*jumping on the \*\*DaphneBlack \*\*vote for no good reason whatsoever. So here’s what I think. I think \*\*DaphneBlack \*\*is scum and is trying to save her neck by voting for whoever is also close to a lynch. I think \*\*DiggitCamara \*\*MIGHT be scum and is jumping on what seems like a sure vote in order to reinforce a positive voting record later on. **DiggitCamara** ’s contributions so far: Post 129: Discussion of keeping track of clues. Post 132: More clue talk. Post 227: Calls \*\*sinjin \*\*town aligned due to the reaction to **Mahaloth** , but has no read on whether or not \*\*Mahaloth \*\*is scum or town. Post 228: Votes for Daphne despite having neither commented about nor contributed to the case against her. So. \*\*Vote DaphneBlack Vote DiggitCamara\*\*, not because I think he’s going to be lynched this round but because I want it on record that I’m suspicious. ---
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/292 "2014-02-16T18:01:11Z")
I don’t see any reason for the assumption that the mod wouldn’t give two players the same clue. I don’t recall any assurance that everyone would have a unique clue. It seems less likely that a scum would be given a used clue as a “cover clue” (whilst cover roles very likely exist, have we any reason to believe scum have been given both a Real True Clue and another clue to fake claim? That seems very unlikely to me): that used clue would then wind up accidentally confirmed as true if one of the holders was revealed as scum. That seems sloppy to me. I do think, once again, that we probably don’t need to worry so much about the clues and should be more cautious in revealing them. ---
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/293 "2014-02-16T18:06:06Z")
**Johnny** , how is my vote for **Astral** “bandwaggony”? I don’t get that. OK, I told myself if I got one more vote and none were removed I was going to have to do something drastic. I am not going to be around as much over the rest of the day, so it needs to happen now. I am going to have to claim. I’d apologize if I thought I had actually played anything the wrong way, but I don’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/294 "2014-02-16T18:11:18Z")
Anyway here is my claim: I’m Sherlock Holmes. Please unvote me now. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/295 "2014-02-16T18:11:22Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Wait, I missed this the first time through… you’re saying you and gnarlycharlie have identical clues? And in the post you notice this, you don’t find anything weird enough about that to mention? :dubious: > > I’m calling shenanigans on one of you. I thought that might come up and it’s time to end it now. My clue says that there may be more than one player with the same clue. If scum use this info then so be it but I would hate it if someone got mislynched cos I am a chicken. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/296 "2014-02-16T18:33:37Z")
> [@Scathach](#): > > Then voting me because I said I had a duplicate clue (of one that was already revealed). Which surely can’t fall under the “gives information to scum” because it was information that was already out there? You say it might be a cover role, but frankly not only do I think it would be unlikely for me to blithely reveal the duplicate if I was scum, I actually think it would be unfair of Storyteller to provide cover roles with such an easy way to out them. See, I don’t think it would be unfair for the mod to give a townie a clue, then include the same clue in a scum cover role. Story warned that revealing clues might disadvantage the side that revealed them. I think this may be exactly what story was talking about when mentioning bad results for revealing clues. Possible scenarios: Townie reveals [random.org](http://random.org) first [ul] [li]Disadvantage town: Scum with this clue in cover role has time to come up with new clue to reveal later - it seems less likely to me that this happened - why find your cover clue is a dupe then still reveal it?[/li][/ul] Scum reveals [random.org](http://random.org) first [ul] [li]Disadvantage scum: Blunders into fact that clues are duplicated, the townie has no reason to keep their clue hidden - this one feels more likely[/li][/ul] It seems unlikely to me that both of you would get the same clue and be town. I find it much more likely that one of you is scum. If I only got one vote, I would **Vote gnarlycharlie** But since I get multiple votes, I will also **Vote Scathach** ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/297 "2014-02-16T18:36:00Z")
NEBWOP - I was going back and forth between tabs while I composed that and cleaned the kitchen and didn’t bother to refresh before posting. **Silver Jan** - Can you provide the exact text of your clue? ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/298 "2014-02-16T18:37:41Z")
> [@DaphneBlack](#): > > I don’t see any reason for the assumption that the mod wouldn’t give two players the same clue. I don’t recall any assurance that everyone would have a unique clue. > > It seems less likely that a scum would be given a used clue as a “cover clue” (whilst cover roles very likely exist, have we any reason to believe scum have been given both a Real True Clue and another clue to fake claim? That seems very unlikely to me): that used clue would then wind up accidentally confirmed as true if one of the holders was revealed as scum. That seems sloppy to me. > > I do think, once again, that we probably don’t need to worry so much about the clues and should be more cautious in revealing them. Dizzy’s clue was that: > [@](#): > > CLUE: Scum players have all been given complete, detailed false identities, including clues. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/299 "2014-02-16T18:37:49Z")
> [@DaphneBlack](#): > > Anyway here is my claim: > > I’m Sherlock Holmes. > > Please unvote me now. Well, well well! Anything else to add? Be quite interesting if there was a counter claim but I think you need protecting. It seems like another case of lynch the loud and aggresive player. [OOG] my maiden name is Holmes and my RL BFF is Watson, we used to have fun at school [/OOG] ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/300 "2014-02-16T18:40:31Z")
> [@Darth\_Sensitive](#): > > NEBWOP - I was going back and forth between tabs while I composed that and cleaned the kitchen and didn’t bother to refresh before posting. > > **Silver Jan** - Can you provide the exact text of your clue? It says that some players may have duplicate clues: that’s it word for word but I am not sure if I can copy and paste it. I don’t mind doing that if it’s okay to do so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752.md?page=16)