# Mafia: Baker Street \[Game in progress\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 7, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752 "2014-02-07T14:39:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/341 "2014-02-17T00:00:03Z")
Oh yeah, and people really need to lay off the OMGUS votes. It’s getting beyond silly. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/342 "2014-02-17T00:06:31Z")
> [@sinjin](#): > > Sorry, I thought for sure you claimed as scum, but I can’t find the game. Maybe it was a mini-mafia. What game was it on your board, where you signed up last and complained the whole game about not really wanting to play, you were going to quit after this game, and you were scum? I thought it was that game you claimed day one, maybe not? I remember doing that once, but I don’t recall if I was scum in that game. There was one time when I was scum Cabal in Pleonast’s Conspiracy game and one of my powers is that I could take the power of any power role in the game and made myself look like I was a strongman by getting myself lynched Day One and surviving it, but in that case, I never claimed or said I was a strongman (or anything else, for that matter, for a few days). Other people assumed I was a strongman, however, and after they did, I went with it… but that was about the end of Day one, after several real life days and–again–I never claimed to be it myself, first, until lots of others gave me the idea of it. That may be the game you’re thinking of. I also played in a game on FB that I subbed in TWO TIMES after my death. Day one I was a PFK (Joker), and I said I was a Joker. Day two I was subbed in as Town (a miller) and said I was a miller. Day three I was subbed in as scum and said I was Town, but again…I’m not counting that because it wasn’t a Day One claim. So my stats are correct…I have never actually claimed Day One as scum, only as Town. ---
**Author:** ![Dizzymrslizzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Dizzymrslizzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dizzymrslizzy)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/343 "2014-02-17T00:06:35Z")
Jan, that was an interesting catch… Tex, I think that’s the first slip I’ve ever seen of yours… **Vote Texcat** ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/344 "2014-02-17T00:09:12Z")
Sorry, I meant (obviously): “I have never claimed Day One as town and been scum”. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/345 "2014-02-17T00:14:28Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Let’s just nip that one in the bud. From the rules: Heh, oops. Consider me nipped. ---
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/346 "2014-02-17T02:22:42Z")
**Idle** and **Dizzy** : any chance of answering my questions? I am getting confused about ClueGate here. “Double Clues” = “Cover Clues” re: the clue about scum having cover roles. I think? I don’t think that’s a slip. This is why clue-revealing willy-nilly is bad! We are tying ourselves in knots unnecessarily. That said, I am still in the camp that the Adventure of the Duplicate Clue does not imply anything about the alignment of either player. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/347 "2014-02-17T02:36:14Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > Scum have double clues? Really? According to the clue posted by **dizzymrslizzy** , the cover roles of scum came complete with clues. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/348 "2014-02-17T02:43:23Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Sorry, I meant (obviously): “I have never claimed Day One as town and been scum”. Then what is your plan on Day One when you are scum? ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/349 "2014-02-17T03:21:16Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Sorry, I meant (obviously): “I have never claimed Day One as town and been scum”. I’m sorry, even though I can’t find the game, I don’t believe that. That would be a super-duper scum tell Idle. So what do you do if you are scum, resign? Or are you never scum? I don’t recall you always being town. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/350 "2014-02-17T04:59:22Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > \*\*Astral \*\*always finds me scummy I do, don’t I? I haven’t quite learned how to read you yet. Someday we’ll play a game and I’ll think you’re the towniest town who ever towned before, and that’s when you’ll stab me in the back. 😃 > [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > 1. The refusal to post _any_ piece of her role is suspicious. > 2. My suspicion leads me to consider the following possibility: the scum have a clue that reads something like, "there is no player whose character is named “Sherlock Holmes.” I concede that this is a bit far-fetched. Somebody else later on responds to your “no sherlock holmes” bit, but your #1 kinda bothers me. Sherlock Holmes might be our detective, or he might be any combination of powers, and DaphneBlack explaining her role doesn’t help town. Either she’s Sherlock, and she does her thing as she thinks best, or she’s scum and an eventual counter-claim or dead sherlock outs her. Either way, it’s not truly advantageous to town on Day 1 to know the ins and outs of her role. I’m kinda :dubious: at your fishery… but then I don’t think scum would suggest there’s no Sherlock, so I don’t know what to think about you! > [@Rysto](#): > > (bleaching mine) > > This one caught my eye as I was catching up. **Astral** starts off with a “me, too” over **pizza** ’s case. That’s not too terrible – townies do it all the time – but it’s worth pointing out. This, by the way, is the first **Daphne** vote after **pizza** ’s case. The timing looks pretty opportunistic – this vote really seemed to build momentum on the train. Then **Astral** points out that **Daphne** was the third vote on a bandwagon. > > A bandwagon that **Astral** says is _still_ his second preference. > > Huh? I mean, if you’re going to vote for a player over a supposedly opportunistic vote on a bandwagon, then you’re saying that player is probably scum trying to drive a lynch train on a townie. Simultaneously pushing that bandwagon looks incredibly opportunistic. > > \*\*Vote Astral[/color] I think this comes down to us thinking about the game a little differently. I had a scum lean on Silver Jan, so I voted her. Then I had a scum lean on DaphneBlack, and voted her too. On the surface, thinking DaphneBlack is somewhat scummy makes Silver Jan somewhat less scummy, but _that assumes I’m right about one of the cases._ I’ve moved Silver Jan into the slightly-better-than-chance scum pile, and for the sake of this explanation let’s assign her a 52% chance of being scum. Then, with DaphneBlack, let’s say I felt a 55% chance of scummyness was how I felt. If I’m right about DaphneBlack, _which is unlikely for a Day 1 gut feel,_ logic dictates I unvote Silver Jan. But I have no idea if I’m right or not, and my vote record needs to show _everyone_ I found scummy. If Daphne turns out to be town (as the case seems to be), I’m back at thinking Silver Jan is scum. Basically, my work on scum hunting isn’t done when I cast a single vote. Even if it’s contradictory, recording my thoughts as votes is valuable. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/351 "2014-02-17T05:01:52Z")
You know, I left off the whole point about what the numbers meant. Basically what I’m getting at is, my case on anybody on Day 1 is gonna be weak, and so I don’t feel too worried about contradictory cases this early in the Day. On Tuesday, you can be sure I’ll have narrowed down who I want dead the most. Besides, I told you which one felt scummier to me, so you had a good idea which case I felt stronger towards at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/352 "2014-02-17T05:06:56Z")
[QUOTE=Astral Rejection;17111996 Either way, it’s not truly advantageous to town on Day 1 to know the ins and outs of her role. I’m kinda :dubious: at your fishery… but then I don’t think scum would suggest there’s no Sherlock, so I don’t know what to think about you![/QUOTE] I would definitely expect that any power role claim would have a heavy amount of redacting so as to avoid giving sensitive data to scum, but considering Storyteller’s distinctive writing style, it would go a long way towards building credibility to at least paste the flavor text. It hardly matters at this point, in any case. Daphne’s identity will be borne out one way or another in the next couple of Days. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/353 "2014-02-17T05:56:20Z")
To clarify: my vote on **DaphneBlack** was, of course, because she said > [@DaphneBlack](#): > > I know that Idle always claims. This claim seems townie to me, what can I say? > > vote Astral Rejection > > I’ve found rather that people who seize on “third vote = scum” are scum looking for an easy vote, or laaaazy townies. Boo. > > These are some thin votes. Accepting Idle’s claim is pretty controversial – I admit I’m surprised by that. I made a snap judgement on it, and the notion that scum could have cover roles has made me reconsider a little bit, but I am reading Idle as being pretty much usual townie Idle, in toto, not just the claim, so I’m not backing off my read for now. > > I have no special knowledge about Idle however. This is a submission which defends someone ( **Idle** ) strenously and ends on a note stating what should be obvious to a townie: that she doesn’t have any knowledge about him. In my mind there is seldom a stronger clue to scum than a vigorous defense of a townie (especially in the earlier stages of the game). Of course now that she’s claimed she has pretty much given us the tools that put the weight of proof on her shoulders. I don’t think there’s anything to gain from lynching her now. **Unvote DaphneBlack** A final thought: the original Sherlock Holmes was a master of disguise. I doubt **storyteller** is unaware of said fact. I just hoped there would have been a chance to provide our Sherlock with a credible cover story just in case she’d have to reveal herself early in the game… ---
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/354 "2014-02-17T06:04:15Z")
**Johnny** , if I posted the flavor text, given that we’re pretty sure scum have cover roles, that would prove exactly nothing. I’m not going to worry about “building credibility” right now. It’s more important to me to minimize the damage to town, and I have decided that the way to do that is to keep completely silent about my role for now. Until right now, I was thinking that you were not very scummy, and certainly less scummy than **Astral**. But this continued fishing at me is pretty scummy. Even if you think I’m lying: who else are you suspicious of? ---
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/355 "2014-02-17T06:09:00Z")
**Diggit** , there are plenty of reasons to clarify that you just think someone is townie, and not because you have some verifiable information. That’s all I was doing there. Thinking people are townie is not scummy. I have learned a number of lessons from today. Mostly that the way I think this game should be played clashes with a lot of accepted “rules”. Oh well. Sorry if I seem grumpy to anyone. Nothing personal meant. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/356 "2014-02-17T06:41:36Z")
> [@Dizzymrslizzy](#): > > Jan, that was an interesting catch… > > Tex, I think that’s the first slip I’ve ever seen of yours… > > **Vote Texcat** Huh? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/357 "2014-02-17T07:32:47Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > More and more I’m thinking you’re a terrible player. … suck … don’t make any sense at all). > > What’s this “‘Forgetting’ my gender” BS? Do you seriously think I would try to sell the fact that my GAME ROLE IS NOT FEMALE? :rolleyes: > > _That I was confused at first and thought that you thought I was female._ > > I even asked you “You DO know there’s probably more than one female character in the group right?” > > So I ask you again. Seriously…what’s the answer? > You know there’s probably more than one female character right? Yes or no? > > but not **septimus** , because he doesn’t care about silly things like that. If there’s a female scum in the game then it **MUST BE THE ONLY FEMALE WHO HAS CLAIMED SO FAR!!!** This is how his mind works. > > … IGNORE my question to you (twice, by the way. I asked you TWICE “Do you really think there’s only one female in the game?” and you ignored it both times, so I’m betting you’re going to continue to ignore it because you don’t have a good answer for it) > > … you’re crying … scummy behavior … > messing up even MORE (if you’re Town) … Wow. Just absolutely Wow! No, let me write that in Idle Thoughts style: **Wow!** 🆒 In no particular order: - I definitely do not claim to be a good player. I’m somewhere below the median, but don’t feel bad about it – almost half of us are! One of my defects is whimsical or unclear diction which often attracts early Lynch votes. (I don’t get the Day 1 votes when I actually am Scum – then I’m much more cautious and timid.) - I was rather sure the Moderator would use female/male to refer to character names, not the Players assigned the names. It didn’t occur to me to point this out. If you’re unsure of simple game mechanics you can ask in thread, or PM the Mod. - I do try to answer questions that are directed at me, but it gets tiresome when the’re founded on wrong assumptions, purely rhetorical, or of the “Still beating your wife?” genre. Apparently, if your repeated question is indeed sincere, you think I might think that there is only one female character in the game. I’m beginning to think you think I’m stupider than I’m beginning to think you are. Since you’ve ASKED me TWICE, I will answer your questions. Heaven help us if you need to ask them a THIRD time. (1) I think that in the game color “female” refers to roles, not players. (2) The odds are very high that there are at least two female characters in the game! Ignoring the exceptionally rude gibberish from Idle, the real case against me is “the almost pings” comment in #133 which does indeed sound like almost a smudge. I have no excuse for that comment … except to claim I would probably have been more cautious were I Scum! 🆒 I’m Vanilla Town, ready to be Lynched. It may be for the best: Like a hungry cur who won’t let go of a bone, Idle Thoughts will doubtless rant about little else until he succeeds in killing me. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Klutz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captain_klutz/32/4993_2.png) [@Captain\_Klutz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Klutz)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/358 "2014-02-17T07:48:44Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > 1. Story gave two Townies the same clue. Maybe he was running out of good clues; or maybe it’s a little “WiFoM” by the Mod. > > I won’t even speculate whether the clue is most likely true or false, an issue which seems interesting mostly in how it affects the probability that _other_ Town clues are true. Actually, that is interesting as to how it affects the probabilities. It seems a bit of a waste to squander 2 false clues on the same clue, so maybe it depends on how they should be counted. **Storyteller, for the purpose of calculating the percentage of false clues, does that refer to _distinct_ clues or just overall clues?** ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/359 "2014-02-17T07:49:31Z")
> [@DaphneBlack](#): > > **Idle** and **Dizzy** : any chance of answering my questions? Remind me what it was again? > [@Mahaloth](#): > > Then what is your plan on Day One when you are scum? > [@sinjin](#): > > I’m sorry, even though I can’t find the game, I don’t believe that. That would be a super-duper scum tell Idle. So what do you do if you are scum, resign? Or are you never scum? I don’t recall you always being town. You can’t find it because it doesn’t exist. Seriously, I know my own history of mafia. : p I’ve never claimed (playing as scum) on Day one. However, I HAVE “not claimed on Day One” as Town before…so to answer the question you’re both asking: If I were scum, I would probably not claim on Day One. However, me not claiming doesn’t mean I’m scum (even though I’ve been voted before on Day One–IN TWO DIFFERENT GAMES–for not claiming on Day One (and I was Town both those times). So, yeah…me not claiming on Day One could mean scum or town. But so far, me claiming on Day Ones has ONLY meant: I’m Town. > [@septimus](#): > > - I definitely do not claim to be a good player. Did you see my post four posts after that one, where I apologized for saying that? I don’t really think you’re a terrible player and I’m sorry I said that at the time. > [@](#): > > - I was rather sure the Moderator would use female/male to refer to character names, not the Players assigned the names. It didn’t occur to me to point this out. **If you’re unsure of simple game mechanics you can ask in thread, or PM the Mod.** See, the bolded part seems to come off as a little cocky or condecsending. I wasn’t unsure about anything…Your post could have been read both ways. “I’m voting for you because you’re female.” “Wait…what? I’m male”. That was the basic extent of it and yes, I believe MY INITIAL reaction to it wasn’t an “out in left field” one. > [@](#): > > (2) The odds are very high that there are at least two female characters in the game! Yes, I know. That’s all I wanted you to say. That was my point. So, since you have JUST ADMITTED that fact: Then wouldn’t you agree your vote on me is extremely weak? What you’re doing is kind of like this: There’s 100 dogs in a dark room. 50 of them have spots and 50 don’t. You’re told that ONE OF THE DOGS that has spots has a stubby tail…however you’re also told that more than one dog has a stubby tail. With me so far? So you then reach in and feel for ONE dog and you feel that it has a stubby tail. By your logic (in this game with the female name thing), that one MUST HAVE SPOTS!.. …which, no, it might not, since some stubby tailed dogs might not have spots. So it could go either way. Yet you’re banking on the ONE and ONLY female name you know of in this game (one out of over 20 players) to be scum. The odds of that are extremely low, in case you don’t know. In fact, I can do you better than that: I can tell you outright that you’re wrong, because I’m not scum! But, nevermind…you keep on trying to go against those near 20-1 odds, man! : ) > [@](#): > > Ignoring the exceptionally rude gibberish from Idle, Dude, I apologized, okay? Did you not see it? That that just seems unnecessary. I admitted I was wrong a few posts after that. Do you want me to apologize again? Or would you like to keep rubbing my face in it? ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/360 "2014-02-17T07:53:09Z")
In case you missed it, it’s [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17110997&postcount=323), **Septimus**. I’m SORRY, okay? I didn’t mean to come off sounding so rude or harsh. I apologize to you sincerely and I don’t think you’re a terrible player at all. I just wasn’t thinking about how horrible it sounded as I was typing it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752.md?page=19)