# Mafia: Baker Street \[Game in progress\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 7, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752 "2014-02-07T14:39:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/381 "2014-02-18T00:23:49Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > " I also specifically said that clues should not be “could conceivably lead to a mislyching.” This should be: "I also specifically said that clues should not be revealed if they “could conceivably lead to a mislyching.” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/382 "2014-02-18T00:55:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Captain Klutz** : > > Chronos, I voted in #240 Hm, so you did… Not sure why I didn’t notice that. And it also looks like you said some relevant things in the clue discussion. I think I must have typoed your name when I was searching my notes, or something. It’s still not much, but you are participating. **Unvote Captain Klutz** ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/383 "2014-02-18T01:33:14Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > That’s… actually the exact opposite of what I said. I said that my clue, if true, would be \*\* “potentially a really useful clue.” I also specifically said that clues should not be “could conceivably lead to a mislyching.” Nowhere did I say that I thought my clue would get my lynched specifically. > > Finally, I never claimed ANYTHING, nor did I say that my PM matched **Idle** ’s. I said it had structural and grammatical similarities with mine as part of a larger commentary about the potential validity of it coming from Storyteller or not. > > Considering that you’re voting for me because of the “tone” of my posts, you’ve done a really poor job of actually reading what I posted. The way I read it you seemed concerned about your lynching not another’s- if your clue is true and beneficial- excellent- we all know that it might be false and should as a group operate accordingly- unless of course it benefits Scum then that changes the field Again my read of your post was that you were soft claiming a vanilla role- now that you have rephrased it- not so much- however alluding to a vanilla role can be beneficial for Scum- until they are called on it we know - in all likely hood- that Scum have cover roles - so the point there seems moot to me. my “tone” or intent is often miss interpreted as well- but I will be keeping an eye on you ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/384 "2014-02-18T02:10:05Z")
Pleo laying low is odd. **Vote Pleo** ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/385 "2014-02-18T02:44:16Z")
> [@Darth\_Sensitive](#): > > If you had actually read my post instead of OMGUSing all over the place, I think that you might have found that I don’t think that both of you are scum (also, though **TexCat** and I used similar logic on the two of you, I think I laid mine out better). > > In order of increasing frequency I think your alignments are: both scum, **gnarly** town/ **scat** scum, both town, **scat** town/ **gnarly** scum. This ordering has been tweaked somewhat due to continued consideration and the clue stating that there may be people out there with the same clue (both town was, when I first posted it, the second least likely). > > When I voted, I thought that you were more likely to be scum (and said as much!), but that there was a chance that **scat** was instead. _However_, as I said in my post, I can vote both of you due to the multivote system. Though both of you are unlikely to be scum, one of you is more likely than the average town member to be one of them. So I voted you both. > > However, my shifting analysis of the probabilities (meaning I think it’s less likely **scat** to be scum than when I typed up my vote\*\*, does mean that I am going to > > **Unvote Scathach** although my votes are for those who voted for me, i have more reasons than OMGUS. painting them as OMGUS just makes me more suspicious of you. furthermore, OMGUS votes aren’t necessarily useless. if you’re town, scum is bound to vote you eventually. 😉 > [@Mahaloth](#): > > Pleo laying low is odd. > > **Vote Pleo** i believe he said he would be away the whole weekend and then some. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/386 "2014-02-18T02:58:15Z")
RE: Duplicate clues \*\*Charlie \*\* claimed his first – under no pressure to do so- if it had been my clue I doubt I would have sat on it as I see no huge value in the info- what would be the Scum motivation? \*\* Scath \*\* verified that they had the same clue- I don’t see that as Scummy (Scum would be more likely to lie than create a ruckus with a duplicate ) Jan tells us that her clue says that there are duplicate clues ( again I don’t see a Scum motivation for the reveal) if Jan IS Scum then she would keep shut about it and let us lynch with our miss-information If she is Town of course she would post to prevent a run away on a possible innocent. - and, yes- I do realize that Scum \* would \* do any of those things- but the three of them together leans me towards belief \* Of course it says nothing about their alliance for certain- but I think the sandwich needs more meat for a vote ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/387 "2014-02-18T05:38:09Z")
> [@DaphneBlack](#): > > I have learned a number of lessons from today. Mostly that the way I think this game should be played clashes with a lot of accepted “rules”. Oh well. I really don’t think you did anything particularly wrong. In any mafia game, people are going to jump on you for any number of seemingly-specious reasons. I had a gut feel you were scum, and voted for it. It happens to all of us, and you just happened to be the target this time around. > [@septimus](#): > > (2) The odds are very high that there are at least two female characters in the game! Indeed there are. My character, for instance, is a female character. I’d reckon there are plenty more. Hopefully that helps you with Idle. 🙂 > [@Captain\_Klutz](#): > > **Storyteller, for the purpose of calculating the percentage of false clues, does that refer to _distinct_ clues or just overall clues?** Come on, you know Storyteller won’t, and in fact can’t, answer this question. Any answer he gives will give clues to the state of the game. > [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > But so far, me claiming on Day Ones has ONLY meant: I’m Town. Have you ever explained the point of this whole exercise? When you’re town, sometimes you claim, and sometimes you don’t. When you’re scum, you never claim. What’s the point? It’s really not evidence for your innocence, when I have no way of reading every game you’ve played, nor any way of verifying that maybe just maybe _this_ is the game where you claim as scum. > [@Rysto](#): > > Well that’s very convenient, as it allowed you to keep a vote on two of the leading bandwagons. > > You may not be all worried about where you’re placing your votes, but I’m very interested myself. No, it’s not convenient at all. It’s how I chose to vote, and I’m responsible for it. When I placed that vote, there were many days of Day 1 left to play. I don’t see why you expect me to have ironclad cases for my votes, nor why you expect me to pick right that second. I mentioned _in the post where I voted for DaphneBlack_ where my preference was, and I plan on ending each Day with a single vote, representing who I most want dead. I really don’t get why people keep saying I’m trying to “dodge responsibility” for my votes. That’s literally impossible in a game of mafia, where every single vote will be scrutinized. I’m responsible for every vote I make, and I’ll answer for each one (like I’m doing here) as much as is needed. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/388 "2014-02-18T06:48:21Z")
> [@DaphneBlack](#): > > **Pizza** : You accuse sinjin of being aggressive. How is her aggression different than yours? It’s not coming from me (I have the I know I am innocent card) thus absolving me of all _tu quoque_-style arguments, and furthermore, doesn’t appear to be directed at anyone I would consider suspicious. Aggression alone is not useful. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/389 "2014-02-18T06:53:27Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I went back through the thread (thanks to everyone for not making Day 1 a rocket to 50 pages!) and reread gnarly and Scathach. Nothing jumps out at me as super scummy between the two… but nothing jumps out as super townie, either. I’d give Scathach the nod for “more likely to be townie” for her efforts to catch up, which seem more townieish than gnarly’s participation so far. There just isn’t much to work with. > > So… as weird as I think this is, I can’t work out what I should do about it. > > 1. I don’t believe two town players would get the same clue. > 2. I don’t believe Storyteller would give a town player and a scum player the same clue, so that town could “catch” a scum, or make a 1-1 trade. > 3. I don’t believe gnarly or Scatchach is lying about their clues, because Scathach says it’s the same, and I assume it’s identical or she would have mentioned otherwise. > 4. I don’t believe gnarly and Scathach are BOTH scum trying out some crazy meta strategy where we “clear” one or the other, because that’s crazy. > 5. I don’t believe this is the potential “bad result” Story promised for revealing clues. > 6. I don’t believe this is a Storyteller mistake, because his games have been very well organized. > > What am I missing? I’ve pretty much ruled out every possibility, so I’m making a mistake somewhere. It’s possible Story is devious enough to insert the same clue twice to get us running around in circles, as in the above quote. I think it may be prudent to check them on some random night with an investigation or roleblock, but otherwise, it’s an argument that the “game host wouldn’t do X”, and story looks to be experienced enough to specifically do X just to make people stop using such arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/390 "2014-02-18T07:02:33Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > **Unvote DaphneBlack** > > **Vote ATPG** > > It’s not much but I don’t like the fact that he called out the unusual Day setup in post 81 and then appeared to forget there’s no night twice later on. I don’t even understand this one. Until it’s explained to me, I’m going to pretend it’s going to be replaced with some other vote later on. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/391 "2014-02-18T07:08:18Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > \*\*Pizza \*\* I read your clue and thoughts on it and I am still uncertain what your stance is on said player revealing theirs. it seems you said you encourage the reveal and then you don’t? Given Daphne’s reveal (Which, btw, is either Sherlock holmes, or a caught scumbag attempting to salvage the situation with a one for one trade… a situation which will resolve itself and is not pressingly urgent for me to even have an opinion on) It seems less urgent for this person to remain hidden. Personally I think they should reveal if they think their clue is useful, however, they are still very high percentage to be innocent and thus, murder bait. Might be nice if they weren’t killed off early, which is why if I had my way, they’d still remain hidden. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/392 "2014-02-18T07:24:46Z")
> [@DaphneBlack](#): > > **vote DiggitCamara** > > Their vote on me was totally jumping on a bandwagon with no actual thought behind it and they have barely posted otherwise. I think they want to fly under the radar. Hmm. Why not? I don’t have much of an opinion on the matter. Lead on, Holmes. **Vote DiggitCamara** ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/393 "2014-02-18T07:33:07Z")
Also, Daphne, I think I mentioned… > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Maybe it’s just a personality quirk I haven’t gotten used to of yours. If that’s the case I’ll eventually learn. I didn’t picture the person with the Holmes role doing what you were doing, thought it was a safe bet to pressure there as opposed to somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/394 "2014-02-18T13:12:17Z")
:dumb Mahaloth enters: I still don’t get the point of clues if we have no idea which ones are true or false. Unless we have some power to determine validity of them. I don’t, that is for sure. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/395 "2014-02-18T13:29:37Z")
There is an interesting connection between Lizzy and Texcat, but I’m not sure what inference to draw. Very early, Lizzy revealed her clue. [QUOTE=Dizzymrslizzy] CLUE: Scum players have all been given complete, detailed false identities, including clues. [/QUOTE] As I alluded to earlier, this struck me as likely to be false. If we have an Investigator who learns names, would he learn the fake name or the real name? And what about clues that mention the gender of a Scum? If such clues are truthful, they also become useless if a Scum player has a “true” identity _and_ a “fake” identity that might show up to Investigators. Not only does the clue seem likely to be false, it seems like it _might_ be a fake clue that Scum would construct. Lizzy pings me slightly for another reason: lowish participation, and a weakish vote. But then > [@TexCat](#): > > And remember that scum have double clues. Reacting to Lizzy’s clue? Or private information? > [@TexCat](#): > > On my tablet with no real keyboard. > …Thinking _things_ through > …possible for scum _to_ have … No mention of Lizzy’s clue. > [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > Scum have double clues? Really? > [@Dizzymrslizzy](#): > > Jan, that was an interesting catch… > > Tex, I think that’s the first slip I’ve ever seen of yours… > > **Vote Texcat** Has Lizzy forgotten her own published clue? I doubt if Texcat and Lizzy are Scum together, but this seems fishy enough to guess that one or the other is. **Vote: Dizzymrslizzy** It’s often easier to identify Townies than Scum. In answer to Daphne: Yes, Mahaloth seems very likely to be Town. ---
**Author:** ![Scathach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Scathach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scathach)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/396 "2014-02-18T13:38:53Z")
This is probably posted somewhere obvious, but I’ve looked and can’t find it. \*\* When does Day end \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/397 "2014-02-18T14:21:59Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > 1. Highest vote total at the deadline, which will always be **Wednesday at 12:00PM US Eastern time** , will be lynched. There is a method for resolving all tie votes, but it will not be revealed publicly at this time. Post 55. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/398 "2014-02-18T14:39:29Z")
\*\*Right, Wednesday at noon - so in about 26 hours, give or take. Get those actions in, folks - remember, there is no Night in this game. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/399 "2014-02-18T14:51:22Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > :dumb Mahaloth enters: > > I still don’t get the point of clues if we have no idea which ones are true or false. Unless we have some power to determine validity of them. I don’t, that is for sure. We should allow for that possibility. It may become clearer later on in the game when more of the clues are posted. As mentioned, sometimes it is going to be an either/or proposition. My clue means that only one of me and Langdale pike has a false clue, we cannot both have true clues and we cannot both have false clues. That’s a start. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/400 "2014-02-18T16:33:16Z")
Again, **Pizza** , you’re assuming that Langdale Pike even exists. If, for instance, he were a Scum cover identity, then your assumptions about him would be very dangerous. Or, for that matter, it’s possible that he’s not only a cover identity, but you’re a Scum yourself and manufactured your clue to support a teammate. As an aside, it looks like the character of Langdale Pike, in the Sherlock Holmes canon, was a professional gossip-monger. Which is a fitting character, I suppose, to have a false clue. In any event, I don’t see the clues being possibly false as all that big a deal, since almost all the information we get in a game is possibly false. We’ve just got to go with what seems most likely, and that applies as much to the clues as it does to any other source of information. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752.md?page=21)