# Mafia: Baker Street \[Game in progress\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 7, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752 "2014-02-07T14:39:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/401 "2014-02-18T16:38:33Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > As I alluded to earlier, this struck me as likely to be false. If we have an Investigator who learns names, would he learn the fake name or the real name? And what about clues that mention the gender of a Scum? If such clues are truthful, they also become useless if a Scum player has a “true” identity _and_ a “fake” identity that might show up to Investigators. How many mafia games have you played with mod-provided cover roles where an investigator is told the cover role info and not the true info\*? \*Excepting of course when they investigate someone with a role like godfather or miller that specifically fools investigators, but even then, they’re not really being told the cover role info. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/402 "2014-02-18T16:49:11Z")
First off, sorry for being late. I’d thought I’d posted a note that I’d be out for the Presidents Day holiday weekend, but apparently I missed this game. I’m going to respond to posts as I read, since I’m less likely to forget to respond to something this way. Next, I’m going to keep my power(s) secret for now. I do think it’s useful to reveal my clue since it’s about scum: CLUE: One Scum player, a woman, has a power that targets protective roles. If her target is protected, the player doing the protecting will die. This could very well be true. The tricky part is if this is a false clue, what part is false? Is it a total red herring? Or is one part of it wrong? I guess this a strong hint that a protector should really only target someone they’re willing to trade their life for. > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I think the more lies we force scum to tell the better off we are but I take your point. This is an excellent tactic, but not very helpful since our clues can be false. We’d have to separate out lies given to players by the moderator from lies created by players to look like the moderator’s lies. That’s going to be tough. > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Experienced game hosts tend to insert some backfiring mechanism into a game to prevent mass-reveals. Sometimes it’s cover roles, sometimes it’s info that’s more useful to scums than townies. Any good mafia game designer puts in mechanism or elements that prevent a mass-claim from unbalancing the game. That doesn’t mean we should not do a mass reveal, just that we shouldn’t expect to win simply because we did a mass reveal. Since town generally needs information, lacks it, and gains it by trading numbers, a mass reveal that results in a few mislynches or kills isn’t really much of a disincentive. The problem in my view is that a mass reveal may speed up the game too much by moving the game-state closer to mid-game when we’re still fumbling around in the early game. Better to do a mass reveal in mid-game when we have enough information to judge the quality of the additional info we’d receive. That does make it easier for scum to adjust their claims, but it’s a tradeoff. > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > If the scums don’t know who is about to be lynched and cannot talk their way out of it, there’s no defense, no alibi, and no bamboozle. I generally agree with your post, but I wanted to comment on this part. Unfortunately it works both ways. Townies get trapped by the lynch as well. We need to allow for players to try to avoid the lynch, if only to move the pressure around. I’d rather see three players be under lynch pressure and pick the one I think is most scummy than have one player take all the heat and die without fuss. > [@DaphneBlack](#): > > I’ve not played, as far as I can remember, in a multivote game before. What effects does mv tend to have in terms of the voting record, other than it being more complicated? Multivoting is very pro-town, if the players use it well. Ideally, each player votes for every player they think is suspicious enough to be lynched. And does not vote for players they think are not suspicious enough to be lynched. If all players do this, the lynch will tend to be players that arouse some suspicion from many, rather than a player has strong suspicion from a few. Think about that. Players often have conflicting playstyles or philosophies or mannerisms, etc that trigger responses from certain other players. This typically leads loud arguments that aren’t really related to alignment. In a single-vote game, these personality conflicts often dominate the voting, which leads to a couple players strongly advocating another’s lynch and some others following along who don’t have strong opinions (someone has to be lynched, right?). That is a recipe for mislynch. In a multivote game, a player who is only mildly suspicious can still get votes. Scum might be able to avoid the loud conflicts, but it’s really hard to avoid all suspicion. As a group, we’re fairly good at picking out suspicious behavior, especially when we’re not personally involved. Multivoting multiplies the voting power of that group skill much better than single voting. Instead of having (for example) 9 town votes vs 3 scum votes, we’ll have 27 town votes vs 9 scum votes. It’s much harder for scum to overcome an 18 vote differential than a 6 vote differential without being obvious about it. And the other advantage of multivoting is that players must account for who they are _not_ voting for. In a single-vote game, a player can always explain their lack of a vote by “I thought X was more suspicious”. Can’t do that here. When we lynch scum, every player who did not vote for the scum needs to account for why they didn’t. > [@Chronos](#): > > On another topic: We have multivoting here, and that’s a very powerful tool for Town, since using it puts more information into the voting record. People should generally be ending the day with multiple votes in place. I believe, though I have not yet proven, that the optimum would be for each of us to cast approximately as many votes each Day as there are live Scum. Based on the size of the game, we probably have four or five Scum, so that’s about how many votes I intend to have live at the end of the Day. My theorizing matches that. I even had a game the required players to have a number of votes equal to the number of scum (mod-disclosed that number each Day). While the theory is correct, most players don’t have the time or skill to come up with N good votes. But a free-form system like this works well. Players vote for who they think is suspicious enough to lynch, and have to be ready to explain their lack of a vote on scum as well. > [@Chronos](#): > > It’s not defeated, and is in fact helped, by multivote, since (as mentioned above) that puts more information into the voting record. It is, however, defeated by sufficiently skilled Scum players, as illustrated in the LotR game. I therefore do not expect to deploy it in this game, since I don’t know how to compensate for that. Bah, that is putting an unfair burden on your algorithm. No one expects a human player to be able to reliably detect scum vs town. Especially skilled scum vs skilled town. An algorithmic scum hunter is one tool that can be used; never the only tool. I’d certainly love to see its results. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Phew, that takes me to the bottom of page 2. I’ll post this now and have to come back later. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/403 "2014-02-18T16:59:22Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Again, **Pizza** , you’re assuming that Langdale Pike even exists. If, for instance, he were a Scum cover identity, then your assumptions about him would be very dangerous. Or, for that matter, it’s possible that he’s not only a cover identity, but you’re a Scum yourself and manufactured your clue to support a teammate. I find it highly unlikely that I was given a clue about a person who does not exist in this game, and even less likely that I am scum. If you are trying to convince me that I’m scum, you’re wasting your time. I know it goes without saying that you have that in abundance, but there are more productive uses for you. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/404 "2014-02-18T17:00:26Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Next, I’m going to keep my power(s) secret for now. I do think it’s useful to reveal my clue since it’s about scum: > CLUE: One Scum player, a woman, has a power that targets protective roles. If her target is protected, the player doing the protecting will die. Feels familiar. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/405 "2014-02-18T17:20:40Z")
Having two sets of matching clues thus far suggests to me that the chance of a scum and town player sharing a clue increased dramatically. There’s no way ONLY town got matching clues. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/406 "2014-02-18T17:55:54Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Having two sets of matching clues thus far suggests to me that the chance of a scum and town player sharing a clue increased dramatically. There’s no way ONLY town got matching clues. Why not? The fact that there are matching clues at all suggests the game host is thinking outside of the box. Why are you putting Storyteller back in the box by insisting it can only be the case that a scumbag has an identical clue to a townie? Further, why wouldn’t a scumbag alter his or her clue to make certain it isn’t a duplicate, especially if they apparently get a bunch of sample clues to compare things to (with their teammate’s actual clues, and potentially, cover role clues as well). All you’d have to do is alter a few words or invent something out of whole cloth (not difficult). I think if you’re using this as a scum-detection method, it’s a poor one, and if it is at all effective, particularly given the points I just mentioned, it would really only be confined to the pair of players with identical clues revealed so far. In all other cases, it would be a complete wash. I’m not dogmatic on this point, but I simply am not following why it must be a certain way. This is not at all dissimilar to how I was asked why I won’t vote for Langdale pike, people at least pointed out there’s still a chance he could be starting scum even if he’s not Moriarty. What’s your reasoning? Or is it just gut? ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/407 "2014-02-18T17:58:02Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Having two sets of matching clues thus far suggests to me that the chance of a scum and town player sharing a clue increased dramatically. There’s no way ONLY town got matching clues. that’s a dangerous assertion. if i am lynched, would you then lynch **Scáthach** when i flip town? if she and i were both town that would be great for scum. \*\* vote Astral Rejection \*\* * * * what do you people think of the possibility that not only do scum have correct clues but also all the correct clues? ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/408 "2014-02-18T18:00:52Z")
> [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > what do you people think of the possibility that not only do scum have correct clues but also all the correct clues? I recall seeing several players pointing out that there is a limit imposed by the game host through the game rules as to an absolute maximum amount of fake clues. Somewhere between 0 and 50 percent of the clues are fake, but no more than that. Unless the game is half scumbags, in which case they’ve already won the game, it’s not possible for this to be true. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/409 "2014-02-18T18:08:47Z")
> [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > that’s a dangerous assertion. if i am lynched, would you then lynch **Scáthach** when i flip town? if she and i were both town that would be great for scum. > > \*\* vote Astral Rejection \*\* > > * * * > > what do you people think of the possibility that not only do scum have correct clues but also all the correct clues? I don’t think scum have the only correct clues because I know I am town and my clue is correct. I do agree though that Town most likely have matching clues, I think it would be game breaking if Town and Scum were paired off with the same clues. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/410 "2014-02-18T18:16:49Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Why not? Because otherwise the clues are a masonry, and we’ve just cleared four townies. You wrote a lot of words to say “nuh uh!” With two pairs each of matched clues, I believe it’s likely at least one player with a matched clue is scum. I don’t understand anything else you’re implying. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/411 "2014-02-18T18:18:55Z")
> [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > that’s a dangerous assertion. if i am lynched, would you then lynch **Scáthach** when i flip town? if she and i were both town that would be great for scum. Nice straw man. I’m not currently voting for _anyone_ on the basis of their clue, so your argument really kind of breaks down there. We also haven’t seen all the clues, so it’s possible that we have yet more matched clues. We’ve got a real bad case here for voting for me because you dislike my line of reasoning, not because you can demonstrate it’s scummy. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/412 "2014-02-18T18:25:28Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > I don’t think scum have the only correct clues because I know I am town and my clue is correct. Sorry, I missed how this was established. How do you know your clue is correct? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/413 "2014-02-18T18:29:06Z")
**Pizza** , I think **gnarly** means that the Scum might know everybody else’s clues in addition to their own. While that would fit with the flavor of Moriarty sending out all the invitations, I don’t think it would make much sense as a game mechanic, since it would give them too much information. And obviously, I’m not trying to convince you concerning your own alignment. But this isn’t a private discussion, and anyone else in the game can also read what I’m writing, and draw their own conclusions about it. You’re encouraging the Town to make dangerous assumptions, and whether you’re doing it deliberately or not, Town needs to be warned of the potential danger. On another note, welcome, **Pleonast** , but I trust you understand that your uncharacteristic reluctance to claim, especially when we’ve already had a claim to our presumed primary power role, doesn’t do anything to make you look less suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/414 "2014-02-18T18:29:09Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Sorry, I missed how this was established. How do you know your clue is correct? Because my clue says that some players may have duplicate clues. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/415 "2014-02-18T18:36:11Z")
On to page 3… > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > If we all abstain from random voting, it will be day two and we’ll have one dead townie to show for it. Huh? Votes don’t need to be random. No one is suggesting we not vote at all. > [@DiggitCamara](#): > > Clues: I don’t really know how many Scum we’re expected to have, but I don’t think they’re less than 6. If we have 14 Town players, at least 8 have “True Clues™”. Add the 6 “True Clues” that Scum have and we have 14 “True Clues” or more. So, it’s important to keep a good track record on Clues and whether or not they are proven to be true; during the end game I believe they might provide the missing information to weed out Scum. There’s 22 players. If there’s 6 scum, that gives us (22-6 - 6) / 2 - 0.5 = 4.5 mislynches (that is, the 5th mislynch loses the game). That’s a very hard and would mean we have a lot of power roles to balance out that many scum. If there’s 5 scum, that gives us (22-5 - 5) / 2 - 0.5 = 5.5 mislynches (the 6th loses). I’d call that the “standard” number, where we have to get half the lynches right. If there’s 4 scum, we’d get 6.5 mislynches. That’d mean we have fewer power roles, but more numbers to make up for it. > [@septimus](#): > > I’ve read the thread but have no suspicions yet. I agree that Mahaloth’s proposal seems anti-Town, but I don’t think a Scum would place his head on the chopping block like that. I’m more suspicious of those repeating the obvious pro-Town advice for each player to judge a reveal himself. You’re entitled to your suspicions, but keep in mind that lynching players who are doing things that help town while giving passes to those who are doing things that do not, leads to games where both town and scum do things to hurt town. I’d rather try to make scum feel like they have to do pro-town things, so that everyone is taking pro-town actions. Note that I’m not saying you are advocating lynch pro-town players or giving passes to anti-town players. I want to point out that your statement could lead to that situation and I’d like to discourage it. > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Scums like to pretend to be all serious and will refuse to vote for their fellow scums unless they see a strong logical case they can agree with. > > But of course they’ll vote for townies for any reason, or none. Hmm, “scum will vote for townies for no reason”? You have already voted for a player for no reason. **vote Askthepizzaguy** for doing what they say scum do. > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Your vote analysis tool is a complicated way of guessing that scum will behave the same way every game, and can be fooled by simply voting randomly. > > Your tool is invariably based on the assumption that scums will vote in X way. When townies vote that way, which they will, since they aren’t trying to avoid the assumptions made by your tool, and scums vote Y way, your tool has become obsolete and counterproductive. > > I know because I made several vote analysis tools, and worked with someone else who was a computer programmer who had also made his own vote analysis tool, and it works until the scums recognize your tells and/or simply do random things. > > Random, that is actually random, cannot be analyzed by any tool. You need to rethink how you do your analysis, then. The purpose of vote analysis (by human or algorithm) is to distinguish scum from town. Townies vote in a certain way: they are trying to vote for scum. If scum deviate from that in any way, it’s theoretically possible to discern it. Voting random is certainly a deviation from pro-town voting, because townies don’t vote randomly. > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > I’ve posted a lot today. Some players have a preference which makes them much more likely to vote for high-posters. That is their justification, but they’ll then attach a reason, pick on some flaw in the talker’s posts, to give a reason to vote for the talker. > > Now, the talker is going to be a talker, more or less, every game. So the success of their voting strategy is wholly dependent on the idea that this player got randed a scum role. And since this player has the same chances as everyone else, this vote which has a meta-reasoning for it and a post facto justification, is also… tada… a random vote. > > Or at least, a vote with no more than a random chance of being correct. > > The same applies to players who vote for people who don’t post much. It is a chosen justification for voting which is, ultimately, just as random as any other kind of random voting. > > Any assumptions made by your analysis tool which include a behavior that is common to a particular player will also give false positives more times than not, simply because that player has a higher chance of being town than scum. > > When the ultimate outcome is that you have not improved your odds of being right, the tool is also, nothing more than a post facto justification for random votes. You’ve hit a false dilemma. Analysis does not have to be perfect to be useful. And even if a player is voting another because they post a certain way, the reason they claim they voted is important. Ultimately, the difference between town and scum is motivation, and sussing that out involves not only what they do, but what they say, and especially if there’s not perfect alignment between what they say and do. > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > What tools does town have to not vote randomly right now? > > 1. No one has died and flipped town or scum > 2. There’s no vote record, save for Askthepizzaguy. You’re welcome. > 3. There hasn’t even been a detective result yet. > 4. Some players haven’t even shown up to the party. > > You can’t analyze something that isn’t there. But we do have something: we have the posts of the players. That is not a lot to base a vote on, but it is something. Something more than nothing. I don’t have anything against random votes, because they jumpstart the process. But you really overstretch their usefulness when you claim that random votes are all we have. > [@sinjin](#): > > And here you go again. Urging town to do something that the \*\*MOD \*\*has said could be a bad idea and you don’t care. Yes, the moderator has said revealing clues could be bad for the team you’re on. That goes both ways: scum could be hurt just as much as town. Why don’t you care about that? **Mahaloth** has a higher tolerance for risk than you do. As a player often willing to take high risks, I don’t appreciate it when players get voted for simply being willing to take a risk. I should note that scum are often much more averse to taking risks than town. After all, scum have a smaller margin to work within, while losing a single townie has low impact to town. If we’re going to be voting players for different risk tolerance, we’ll find more scum in the low-risk group than the high-risk group. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ And that’s it for page 3. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/416 "2014-02-18T18:43:12Z")
Oh, and for any of our latecomers trying to catch up, here are my notes so far, where I’ve tried to capture all votes and unvotes, all claims, and (subjectively) the starts of all the major discussions: Clues: Chronos: James Moriarty, the Scum leader, can lose his Godfather status under some conditions. Idle Thoughts: \ Johnny Bravo: \ Astral Rejection: \ Captain Klutz: \ Dizzymrslizy: Scum players have all been given complete, detailed false identities, including clues. septimus: One Scum player, a woman, has a power that targets protective roles. If her target is protected, the player doing the protecting will die. \ Silver Jan: there may be more than one player with the same clue. \ \ Darth Sensitive: \ gnarlycharlie: All ties are resolved via [random.org](http://random.org). Askthepizzaguy: A man named Langdale Pike is in possession of false information that should be ignored. Scathach: All ties are resolved via [random.org](http://random.org). Lightfoot: \ [Rules](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17088281&postcount=14) [Clarification of rules](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17098347&postcount=55) [Sample PM](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17098613&postcount=60) [First PM confirmation (by Diggit)](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17098754&postcount=61) Day 1: [Start of Day 1](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17099868&postcount=77) [Inner Stickler doesn’t get point of clues](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17099900&postcount=78) [Pizza proposes sitting on clues until just before lynch](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17099934&postcount=79) [Pizza votes Darth for improper Sith name](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17099976&postcount=83) [Chronos reveals clue; advocates for multivoting; objects to random votes; does not plan to use vote-analysis program](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17100201&postcount=91) [Idle Thoughts claims Estelle Anderson, vanilla; thinks his clue would benefit Scum](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17100244&postcount=93) [Johnny Bravo’s clue might lead to mislynch if false](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17100249&postcount=94) [Astral Rejection has a clue that’s best sat on, opposes mass claim](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17100383&postcount=96) [Darth votes, unvotes Pizza to defend his honor](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17100675&postcount=100) [Chronos votes Mahaloth for pushing for clue-claim without providing his](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17100771&postcount=104) [Captain Klutz’s clue is useful if true, but dangerous if false](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17101189&postcount=108) [Johnny Bravo points out that Townie clues might be less than 50% reliable](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17101216&postcount=109) [Captain Klutz points out possibility of recruitment to Scum](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17101247&postcount=111) [Pizza unvotes and revotes Darth for lack of engagement](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17101459&postcount=114) [Dizzy posts her clue](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17101704&postcount=118) [TexCat thinks Scum might have info on what roles have what clues](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17101821&postcount=130) [Scum probably already know septimus’ clue](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17102056&postcount=133) [Silver Jan’s clue could come in handy later](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17102425&postcount=146) [sinjin votes Mahaloth for urging something the mod warned against; votes pizza for spam on random voting](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17102472&postcount=149) [pizza votes sinjin, OMGUS](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17102490&postcount=151) [sinjin calls out Astral for defending Mahaloth](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17103628&postcount=165) [Dizzy attempts to vote for Sinjin for being aggressive](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17103711&postcount=169) [wevets examines all players; votes Inner Stickler for being noncommittal; votes Chronos for being townier-than-thou; votes Idle for unforced claim; votes Astral Rejection for stacking the deck; doesn’t think the clues warrant too much worry](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17104099&postcount=177) [gnarly catching up; posts clue](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17104479&postcount=186) [septimus thinks cover-identities clue might be false; reveals clue; half-kiddingly votes Idle for being only revealed female](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17104591&postcount=187) [Johnny Bravo votes Idle for revealing without copy/paste, prediction that Scum will vote for him](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17104616&postcount=189) [Astral votes Silver Jan for post in general](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17104643&postcount=190) [Idle posts full role](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17105449&postcount=201) [Pizza feels good about Inner Stickler for being engaged; sees DaphneBlack as trying to sound engaged, not being more wary; thinks Mahaloth feels natural; doesn’t know about Chronos; thinks Idle’s vanilla claim scores him Townie points; finds Astral organic; thinks Daphne is quick to hand out Townie card; thinks Chronos’ vote does nothing to find Scum; finds TexCat natural but wants more from her; thinks DaphneBlack is lying about not knowing who Estelle Anderson is; neutral on Captain Klutz; unsure how to read Johnny Bravo](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17105747&postcount=209) [Pizza thinks metaclues likely false; reveals own clue; thinks Silver Jan is playing safe; doesn’t subscribe to what sinjin said; thinks wevets is independent of Daphne; thinks wevets and Idle both feel townie; finds Astral worthy of following](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17105750&postcount=210) [Pizza votes Silver Jan and DaphneBlack for above reasons; unvotes Darth to not spread too thin](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17105760&postcount=211) [Pizza would never vote for Langdale Pike](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17105812&postcount=214) [Idle says his having a helpful-to-Scum clue is evidence of innocence](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17105836&postcount=215) [Daphne votes Septimus, didn’t like his vote; votes Silver Jan for avoiding responsibility](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17105946&postcount=220) [Astral votes Daphne for Pizza’s reasons, third vote](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17105991&postcount=223) [Inner Stickler votes DaphneBlack for reaction to Idle’s claim](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17106045&postcount=224) [Daphne votes Astral for seizing on third vote](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17106230&postcount=225) [Diggit thinks sinjin’s attack on Mahaloth looks townie](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17106249&postcount=227) [Diggit votes Daphne for protesting too much](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17106255&postcount=228) [Chronos votes Pizza for illogical attack on Daphne; votes Astral for agreeing with Pizza](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17106759&postcount=237) [Captain Klutz votes Silver Jan for suspecting Pizza but thinking he’s just being Pizza](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17106981&postcount=240) [Pizza gives Chronos +1 scum point for vote post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17107291&postcount=247) [septimus unvotes Idle, votes Daphne for Pizza’s case; pinged slightly by Chronos](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17107345&postcount=252) [Vote count](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17107469&postcount=254) [Johnny Bravo unvotes Idle, needs to reread cases on leaders](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17107547&postcount=256) [TexCat votes septimus for wishy-washy remarks](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17107751&postcount=258) [TexCat votes Gnarly for risking helping Scum with clue while not helping Town](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17107967&postcount=260) [Scathach apologizes for low participation](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17108281&postcount=266) [Scathach’s clue refers to lynch ties, but he suspects it’s false](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17108326&postcount=267) [Scathach’s clue is the same as Gnarly’s](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17108365&postcount=271) [Dizzy fixes vote for Sinjin](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17109167&postcount=274) [Silver Jan’s clue looks to be accurate, Scum might take advantage of it](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17109627&postcount=276) [Astral calls shenanigans on Scathach and gnarly having identical clues](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17110206&postcount=277) [TexCat votes Scathach, thinks duplicate clue might be from a Scum cover](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17110355&postcount=285) [Scathach votes TexCat for inconsistency in her voting](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17110435&postcount=290) [Johnny Bravo posts read-through; votes Daphne Black for trying to save herself; votes Diggit for low and uncommented participation](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17110445&postcount=291) [Daphne claims Sherlock Holmes](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17110476&postcount=294) [Silver Jan’s clue is that players might share clues](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17110478&postcount=295) [Darth votes gnarly and scathach over duplicate clues](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17110515&postcount=296) [Idle votes Septimus for S’s reasoning on first vote for Idle](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17110624&postcount=303) [Astral unvotes Daphne for claim](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17110633&postcount=304) [Daphne votes Diggit for bandwagonning](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17110720&postcount=308) [Silver Jan votes Dizzy for not doing much besides goading Pizza](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17110758&postcount=309) [septimus unvotes Daphne for claim; votes TexCat for aggressiveness; votes Idle for flailing in response to original vote](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17110763&postcount=310) [Lightfoot checks in](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17110772&postcount=311) [Johnny Bravo unvotes Daphne for claim, but speculates that there is no genuine Sherlock](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17110881&postcount=313) [TexCat votes Silver Jan for “Scum wouldn’t do that”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17110920&postcount=316) [Silver Jan votes TexCat for voting for both leaders, strange vote on Jan](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17110971&postcount=318) [Daphne unvotes Silver Jan for being less waffly](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17110994&postcount=321) [TexCat reminds that Scum have dual clues](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17111066&postcount=332) [Silver Jan questions dual clues](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17111090&postcount=334) [Rysto votes Astral for voting based on a bandwagon he’s on](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17111258&postcount=340) [Dizzy votes TexCat for slip](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17111295&postcount=343) [Johnny Bravo thinks the flavor text would add credibility to a claim](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17112013&postcount=352) [Diggit unvotes Daphne for claim; speculates Holmes might have a cover story](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17112112&postcount=353) [Daphne thinks flavor text would prove nothing, given likelihood of Scum covers](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17112135&postcount=354) [Septimus claims vanilla](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17112244&postcount=357) [gnarly votes TexCat and Darth for not caring between him and Scathach](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17112389&postcount=362) [Vote count](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17112619&postcount=363) [Inner Stickler unvotes Daphne; votes Pizza for calling out unusual Day setup then forgetting about it](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17112944&postcount=364) [Rysto is interested in where Astral is placing his votes](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17113322&postcount=367) [TexCat unvotes Gnarly, Scathach, Silver Jan to focus on Septimus; finds Septimus downplaying danger of Scum, bandwagonning, smudging, disliking aggressive play](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17113356&postcount=368) [Silver Jan unvotes TexCat, mistakenly thought she’d caught a slip](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17113503&postcount=370) [Chronos votes Captain Klutz, Pleonast for low participation](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17113713&postcount=371) [Chronos questions Silver Jan’s response to TexCat](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17113766&postcount=372) [Lightfoot votes Pleo for nonparticipation; sys her clue is irrelevant until names are claimed; votes Johnny Bravo for tone, his concern over his clue](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17114184&postcount=376) [Darth unvotes Scathach due to shifting analysis of probabilities](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17114191&postcount=377) [Captain Klutz points out his vote](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17114299&postcount=379) [Chronos unvotes Captain Klutz](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17114402&postcount=382) [Mahaloth votes Pleo for laying low](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17114652&postcount=384) [Lightfoot sees Town motivation concerning duplicate clues](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17114804&postcount=386) [Astral Rejection’s character is female](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17115256&postcount=387) [Pizza votes Diggit, “Lead on, Holmes”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17115414&postcount=392) [septimus suspects that one of TexCat and Dizzy are scum, votes Dizzy](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17115695&postcount=395) [Pleonast checks in, posts clue](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17116279&postcount=402) [Astral thinks one duplicate clue is Scum](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17116436&postcount=405) [gnarly votes Astral for dangerous assertion; proposes that Scum might have all the correct clues](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17116625&postcount=407) ---
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/417 "2014-02-18T19:09:12Z")
I am concerned that with relatively little time left, the votes are spread pretty thin. We need to start moving toward a consensus. I am not sure what is to be done about this. Of my three votes, I’m inclining more toward **Diggit** as time goes on, pretty much on the basis that **Astral** and **septimus** are contributing more to the game. **Diggit** is classic lurker right now. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/418 "2014-02-18T19:11:59Z")
Would it be possible to get a recap of the case on Diggit? ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/419 "2014-02-18T19:12:52Z")
I’ll look into unspreading my vote later tonight. I’m just a little busy at work for now. One-offs don’t really help town overly much when the vote is close, since that gives scum undue power over who dies. ---
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/420 "2014-02-18T19:37:20Z")
My case on **Diggit** : low participation, jumps in with a bandwagonny vote on me, abusing Shakespearean quotation,\* continued lurking without much engagement with general trends of the day. Classic under-the-radar Day One behavior. \*This is a joke. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752.md?page=22)