# Mafia: Baker Street \[Game in progress\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 7, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752 "2014-02-07T14:39:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/461 "2014-02-19T05:01:14Z")
> [@DaphneBlack](#): > > I was going to ask you if you hadn’t unvoted me for a reason, **Pizza**. Glad it wasn’t some SuperSekrit message I wasn’t getting… > > unless it was… > > _sigh_ I was deliberately not unvoting you. I was kinda-sorta hoping some scumbag would accuse me of still voting you because I’m scum, which makes as much sense as Pleonast’s vote for me. Then it didn’t happen and my vote was still on you, since we’re nearing end of round it’s time to give up that particular snare. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/462 "2014-02-19T05:06:35Z")
> [@DaphneBlack](#): > > Hmm, I could be convinced to vote for **Pleo**. I haven’t voted for Pleo because I > > a) can’t read Pleo > b) think Pleo’s way of playing Mafia is so diametrically opposite of mine that we aren’t even playing the same game > c) always want to lynch Pleo > > but since I always want to lynch Pleo, I kinda want to lynch Pleo. Harrumph. In my opinion he’s avoiding being analyzed because he’s posting analysis of other players, and “catching up”, which means he can avoid prolonged conversations with people. Basically, his posts look like he’s going through the motions of trying to look like a model townie. He is not exposing flaws which can be picked at. Which is safe play, difficult to attack. Between myself, Tex, Astral, and Pleo, I deem Pleo to be one that is not like the others. Hardly an earth-shattering case, but out of 4 players, there’s a decent chance one of them is scum. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/463 "2014-02-19T05:09:24Z")
Remember, the hallmark of scum play is to attempt to avoid posting stuff which is scummy. A player who does nothing but analysis is presenting several walls of text which “shows his work” and accuses other players. There’s no more stereotypical townie behavior, and that’s all Pleonast is doing at the moment. Meanwhile, folks like Astral, TexCat, and (sorry) myself are discussing with other players, debating, even raising the hackles of people who don’t approve of what we’re doing. We’re not playing it safe, it’s more organic what we’re doing. Pleo is a robot. Let’s dismantle him and see what’s inside. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/464 "2014-02-19T05:26:10Z")
If you guys have ever once been scum, you know full well how easy it is to pick apart a townie’s offense and accuse them of hypocrisy. Stuff like that is cheap, easy, and not open for debate. You can easily vote for someone who demonstrates any form of hypocrisy because it’s simple, you just read their posts and see if it contains hypocrisy, and if it does, justification for a vote. That is irresistible to scumbags. They love finding things to accuse townies of which aren’t open for debate. It’s offense which can’t be questioned. I would be willing to wager real money that one of the folks voting for me due to “hypocrisy”-related charges is scum. And since that’s not even everyone voting for me, that’s a tiny pool to hide within. I would love to end this round with a scumbag swinging in the breeze by his neck, after having accused me of hypocrisy. If someone will make that happen, I’ll be eternally grateful and will still stab you in the face without hesitation the next time I’m mafia because I’m just that kinda guy and you all know it. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/465 "2014-02-19T05:36:10Z")
**[See, here I’m now by myself uh… talkin’ to myself. That’s, that’s chaos theory.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSU7n4SLA8U)** ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/466 "2014-02-19T05:38:46Z")
> [@DaphneBlack](#): > > **Astral** , I think that vote count is missing some votes. I’m also voting for **Diggit** , and I believe so is **Johnny Bravo**. Those votes for Diggit did not appear in the official vote count earlier; we have not received information on why. Is that why you did not include them? Oops, sorry. I C&Ped Story’s vote count and just started counting votes from there. I didn’t check his work prior to that post. My bad! @Pizza: I’d be happy to take a closer look at Pleo. @DaphneBlack: I actually share your suspicions about Dizzymrslizzy. I’m gonna take a closer look there, too. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/467 "2014-02-19T06:03:02Z")
I didn’t realize Pleonast only has 4 “actually playing the game” posts. His other three are check-in-type posts. If you had asked me before re-reading his posts specifically, I would have guessed 10ish posts. Huh. Anyway! [His first post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17116279&postcount=402) is entirely mechanics discussion. To be fair to Pleonast, that’s pretty much what all of us talked about at the beginning of the game… but it’s a bit late and a dollar short. Plus, he largely agrees with everyone. But when this is 1/4th of your posts, I feel like it needs to be a little more focused on scum hunting. Really, this is a lean neutral for me… scum tend to focus on mechanics posts, but he came to the game late and I can’t begrudge him wanting to chime in. [His second post of the game](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17116807&postcount=415), he discusses a ton more mechanics and throws a weak vote out for Pizza. Then, more mechanics. [Thirdly](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17117558&postcount=427), we get more mechanics, and some light questioning of wevets and some discussion with others. Pizza, to be fair, I agree with him about your self-professed tell being useless to town, since we can’t possibly know how earnest you’re being about it. 🙂 [For his fourth and final post so far](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17117804#post17117804), we get a vote for Texcat for an understandable if overstated reason. I personally wouldn’t toss a vote out for that, because TexCat is largely right… the moderator has implied a mass claim of clues could hurt town to some degree, and it’s likely it would hurt town quite a bit more than it hurts scum. Regardless, I can’t assign too much scummyness for a vote I don’t agree with. But… like with LightFoot, what bothers me is what _isn’t_ said. In catching up, Pleonast was quick to offer his comments about any mechanics discussion was happening, regardless of how much conversation had already taken place. What he doesn’t do is comment on the cases of each day, and that’s a huge gaping hole in his play. We have no idea what he thinks of me or the cases on me, or what he thinks about Septimus or the cases on Septimus, and so on. That’s literally the most important thing he needs to be catching up on, and it’s what he chose to skip. And I find that scummy. I’m going to break my “no multivote going into the final day of the Day” rule (it lasted so long! Almost a whole Day!) and cast a vote for him while leaving my vote for LightFoot. Upon reflection, I remembered that we have a tendency to immediately forget the suspicions of those who die, and if I’m lynched I want you to remember that I find LightFoot scummy. **Vote Pleonast.** ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/468 "2014-02-19T06:06:15Z")
Onto page 7… > [@Chronos](#): > > OK, done catching up. Obviously the biggest thing I missed (though only just barely, it looks like) is **Daphne** ’s claim. Personally, I’m in favor of letting claimed power roles, especially information-gathering ones, life at least for the first couple of days. She’ll have to post investigation results now, which means if she’s lying, there will be plenty of opportunities to expose her lies. Where is this coming from? **Daphne** only claimed a name, not an investigative power or any other. It sounds like you are setting up known townie to be lynched. **vote Chronos** for unexplained knowledge about Holmes and/or trying to set up conditions for lynching **Daphne**. > [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Obviously I will > **Unvote DaphneBlack** > for at least the time being. But I want to voice a couple concerns I still have. > > 1. The refusal to post _any_ piece of her role is suspicious. > 2. My suspicion leads me to consider the following possibility: the scum have a clue that reads something like, "there is no player whose character is named “Sherlock Holmes.” I concede that this is a bit far-fetched. > > Either way, I agree that Daphne is going to have the burden of proof in the next few days, so we’ll see how that plays out. **Daphne** posted their role name–which is moderator confirmed to be the role name of a townie. They need not post any other piece of their role. If they’re lying, we’ll find out sooner or later. > [@TexCat](#): > > And remember that scum have double clues. How do we know that? This statement sure looks like scum accidentally revealing privileged information. > [@Chronos](#): > > The only assumptions I can see that I’m making are that Sherlock Holmes is a power role, and that that role is an information-gathering one, both of which seem to me to be quite reasonable assumptions. Are you really willing to lynch our one mod-confirmed townie because their powers (if they have any) don’t match your assumptions? I’m not willing to make those assumptions. I’m only assuming that Holmes is a mason-type role, possibly a singleton. > [@Darth\_Sensitive](#): > > According to the clue posted by **dizzymrslizzy** , the cover roles of scum came complete with clues. Even if true, that doesn’t necessarily mean that scum have two clues. I think **TexCat** has jumped from **lizzy** ’s clue to revealing something more. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/469 "2014-02-19T06:07:40Z")
Hi-five to Astral. > [@](#): > > [Thirdly](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17117558&postcount=427), we get more mechanics, and some light questioning of wevets and some discussion with others. Pizza, to be fair, I agree with him about your self-professed tell being useless to town, since we can’t possibly know how earnest you’re being about it. 🙂 I’m well aware. I just want to be able to say, when I die, that I told everyone \*exactly \*how to read me like a book. The real issue is and always will be: Too long, didn’t read. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/470 "2014-02-19T06:07:57Z")
**Pizza** , what about **Dizzy**? Any thoughts? I agree that hypocrisy is not much of a case. I’m forgetting where hypocrisy came up today though. Who has accused whom? ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/471 "2014-02-19T06:17:17Z")
> [@DaphneBlack](#): > > **Pizza** , what about **Dizzy**? Any thoughts? > > I agree that hypocrisy is not much of a case. I’m forgetting where hypocrisy came up today though. Who has accused whom? Like 3 of the people on my wagon accused me of hypocrisy. Dizzy, I don’t have much of an opinion on, and want to see more of. That being said, I did successfully find out what Astral would do in the situation where I encouraged him to vote for Pleonast. So I’m willing to follow your lead on whomever. I mean, Dizzy hasn’t said or done a whole lot, and maybe it’s my own personal biases not allowing me to see her as needing to die right now, but every game, I try to convince folks to follow my lead. But I don’t know how long an exposed Sherlock Holmes will last in the game, so if you have a hunch and need support, I’m your pizzaguy. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/472 "2014-02-19T06:22:19Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > That being said, I did successfully find out what Astral would do in the situation where I encouraged him to vote for Pleonast. Step 1: Convince Astral to vote for Pleo. Step 2: ??? Step 3: Profit! ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/473 "2014-02-19T06:26:37Z")
Okay, I read all of Dizzy. I have the same issue with her that I do with LightFoot & Pleonast: she doesn’t weigh in on any cases. Pop quiz: how scummy does Dizzy find me, one of the lynch leaders? We don’t know. How scummy does she find TexCat? Beats me. I think I’m detecting a pattern here in regards to my thought processes. **Vote Dizzymrslizzy.** Dizzy, if I survive this, you can earn my unvote by getting more involved. We need to know your thoughts on the lynchees. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/474 "2014-02-19T06:27:59Z")
Page 8: > [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > You can’t find it because it doesn’t exist. Seriously, I know my own history of mafia. : p I’ve never claimed (playing as scum) on Day one. Blah, blah, blah… Play this game, not past ones. And that goes for anyone who votes **Idle** because of their past gameplay. Alignments in past games have no effect on alignment in this game. > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > If you are VT, stop with the woe is me shtick. Scum won’t murder VTs unless they’re hot on a trail. If you are a VT and you don’t want to ‘play’ anymore, do your damnedest to intimate you’ve got an action. Otherwise you force town to waste a mislynch on you which is annoying. Okay, I remember being lynched in another game because I mistakenly assumed what “VT” stands for, but I can’t remember what it does stand for. Please define your abbreviations. > [@LightFoot](#): > > I have some things for you but first > **Vote: Pleo** > I didn’t realize he was even in the game until it was mentioned by Chronos- and as I have always found his habit of claiming early ( no matter the role) very annoying- the absence of that action screams suspect to me. **Chronos** had no reason to know about my announced absence because I neglected to post it in this game. You, however, are playing in the game I’m currently hosting, where I definitely made an announcement, and then extended the Night to last five days, instead of the usual one day. You have no excuse for not knowing why I couldn’t post until Tuesday and your vote is conveniently forgetting that. **vote LightFoot** for a lazy vote on a player they knew was absent. > [@Mahaloth](#): > > Pleo laying low is odd. > **Vote Pleo** You too are in the game I’m running and have no excuse for not knowing about my announced absence and super-extended Night. **vote Mahaloth** for a lazy vote on a player they knew was absent. > [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > i believe he said he would be away the whole weekend and then some. Thanks! At least someone is paying attention to the moderator over there. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/475 "2014-02-19T06:33:21Z")
A fresh vote count, hopefully more right this time: Pleonast (6) - Chronos, LightFoot, Mahaloth, Darth Sensitive, Askthepizzaguy, Astral Rejection Astral Rejection (5) - wevets, Daphne Black, Chronos, Rysto, gnarlycharlie Texcat (5) - Scathach, septimus, dizzymrslizzy, gnarlycharly, Pleonast Askthepizzaguy (4) - sinjin, Chronos, Inner Stickler, Pleonast dizzymrslizzy (4) - Silver Jan, Septimus, TexCat, DaphneBlack, Astral Rejection DiggitCamara (3) - DaphneBlack, Johnny Bravo, Askthepizzaguy Mahaloth (3) - Chronos, sinjin, Pleonast septimus (2) - Texcat, Idle Thoughts Silver Jan (2) - Askthepizzaguy, Captain Klutz Idle Thoughts (2) - wevets, septimus sinjin (2) – Askthepizzaguy, Dizzymrslizzy Chronos (2) - wevets, Pleonast LightFoot (2) - Astral Rejection, Pleonast Darth Sensitive (1) – gnarlycharly gnarlycharly (1) - Darth Sensitive Inner Stickler (1) - wevets Johnny Bravo (1) - Lightfoot > [@TexCat](#): > > **Vote: Dizzy** Unbleached on purpose. Texcat, this vote doesn’t count. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/476 "2014-02-19T06:33:45Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Step 1: Convince Astral to vote for Pleo. > Step 2: ??? > Step 3: Profit! You just proved to me that you’d be willing to put Pleonast in the ground, assuming the round is coming to a close and there’s public support for either one of your deaths. You could just as easily have come after me or TexCat. Or listened to Daphne about Dizzy. Essentially, I presented to you a bunch of options. If I am scum in your shoes, what I do, at that moment, reveals what I really want to happen next. If you were scum, Pleonast is therefore much less likely to be scum, in my estimate. If Pleonast flips scum, it tells me a lot about Astral Rejection as well. Regardless of how I feel about you being townie, I would be derelict in my investigation not to at least try to determine your motivations and possible allegiances. We are all detectives, in our own way. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/477 "2014-02-19T06:35:00Z")
Those, uh, [s] tags should be [del] tags. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/478 "2014-02-19T06:36:07Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > **Vote Dizzymrslizzy.** > > Dizzy, if I survive this, you can earn my unvote by getting more involved. We need to know your thoughts on the lynchees. Mmmm, more voting data for later analysis. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/479 "2014-02-19T06:36:53Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > You just proved to me that you’d be willing to put Pleonast in the ground […] Or listened to Daphne about Dizzy. Or BOTH! Although really, I’d prefer Pleo to Dizzy, and I’d _really_ prefer LightFoot to Pleo. But we don’t always get what we want. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/480 "2014-02-19T06:47:26Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Or BOTH! > > Although really, I’d prefer Pleo to Dizzy, and I’d _really_ prefer LightFoot to Pleo. But we don’t always get what we want. If I vote for Dizzy it will largely be because Daphne asked me to do so, over Pleonast. It’s the least I can do. But I also believe I should be myself and contribute my own opinion first. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752.md?page=25)