# Mafia: Baker Street \[Game in progress\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 7, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752 "2014-02-07T14:39:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/721 "2014-02-27T17:41:40Z")
Eh, if I were in his shoes, I’d have done the same thing. A solitary mason claim is not very convincing of anything. Claiming that you’re the last mason will make town suspicious of you and scum likely to get you lynched. Claiming a role like doctor? That’s a death sentence. Of course, once you vouched for him, that’s almost as damning. Can’t have any confirmed town going into endgame, doncha know. (Obviously, as town, we want as many confirmed town going into the end game as possible.) ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/722 "2014-02-27T17:46:21Z")
Le Grande Summary of Chronos, PART I (The Jar-Jar Binks-heavy episode.) we hardly knew ye, and good riddance. > [@Chronos](#): > > On yet another topic: **pizza** , I really don’t think votes like that do any good. Yes, it’s impossible for a Scum to defend against it, but it’s also impossible for a Townie to defend against it, too. And I realize that early votes can stimulate discussion, but not random votes, because what is there to discuss in them? If that vote stays in place once the Day really starts rolling, I probably will vote you for it. Hahahaha. Reflexive scum desire to tell townies how to play the friggen game. I love it. My how they hate random reasonless votes they cannot defend against. > [@Chronos](#): > > **Idle** , since you’re the only one who knows your clue, you know better than any of us whether it would be good to reveal it. I think that in general, it’s probably to our advantage if most people reveal, but there can certainly be exceptions (for instance, if your clue says who Holmes is, definitely don’t reveal that one!). > > On the other hand, **Johnny** , I wouldn’t be too worried about the possibility that a clue can be false, since we all know that that possibility exists. And we do know that most of them, at least, are true. Even if a clue does lead to a lynching, well, something that gives us a better than 50% chance of a correct lynch on Day 1 is pretty good. Plus, every clue that we learn is false allows us to be more confident in all the rest of the clues, since there are a limited number of false ones. Talks to Idle, talks to Johnny. > [@Chronos](#): > > Agreed on the editing. Most edits are innocent, but Scum could also edit to remove an accidental slip. Best to avoid the possibility entirely. > > And I suspect that the primary purpose of the clues is just to stimulate discussion, since it can be hard to start talking Day 1 when nobody else has said anything yet. They seem to be working. More helpful information on how townies should play the game. > [@Chronos](#): > > My general philosophy is that the more information, the better, and it forces the Scum (and the Town) to commit to positions. In a game where people cast one vote and just point Fingers of Suspicion at others, a Scum could point a FoS at another Scum to build up credibility, while at the same time not putting that other Scum at any increased risk of getting lynched. With multivoting, though, if you want your suspicions on the record, then you have to make it actually count. > > The absolute most information would come if everyone voted for half of the total players in the game. But that absolutely guarantees that everyone will be voting for Town. And I figure, if somehow we knew exactly who the remaining Scum were, we’d all be voting for exactly those people, so it seems right to vote for that many people even when we’re not sure. > > Like I said, I haven’t proven this to be optimal, but that’s why I believe it probably is. **Pleonast** might be able to elaborate on this; he’s long been an advocate for multi-vote. Talks to Daphne, more talk about how townies should vote. > [@Chronos](#): > > Oops, another page. > > Fish or cut bait. If you think it’ll help to post yours, go ahead. If you don’t think it’ll help, don’t push others to. But pushing for everyone to post their clues while not doing so yourself looks fishy to me. > > **Vote Mahaloth** Crappy vote for Mahaloth. > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Might as well vote me now then, because Pizza is stubborn as a mule and has been voting randomly on day one since he began playing over 6 years ago. > > It’s day one, all you have is random voting and then people voting others because they “don’t like” their random votes. > > Come and get it, pizza’s hot and fresh and never really gives a damn about threats. 😛 > [@Chronos](#): > > I was about to oblige, but… > > OK, that’s a legitimate vote now. Still weak, of course, but that’s to be expected on Day 1. You’re off the hook… for now, at least. > > To be clear: I agree 100% that early votes, even when we have very little to go on, are essential for the game. But there’s a difference between “very little to go on” and “nothing to go on”. Nobody ever got lynched based on just a single person’s vote: Any vote, in order to be meaningful, must have at least some kernel to it that others could in principle look at and say “I agree”. Nobody can agree with the argument that **Darth Sensitive** must be Scum because his name isn’t a proper Sith name, so that vote was useless. People can agree, though, that he’s relatively unengaged in the game, and so that vote is useful, at least a little in its own right and more in terms of later analysis. Does not follow through. > [@Chronos](#): > > Oh, and > > This is a good point. On the other hand, there might also be as few as only one false clue, and Scum might well tell the truth about their clues, too. Assuming that Scum will always lie is nearly as dangerous as assuming that they’ll always tell the truth: This isn’t one of those mysterious islands found in logic puzzles. Blah blah. > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > And yet, if he’s guilty, both votes still have the potential to kill him. > > A vote doesn’t become wrong or right because there was reasoning attached. > > The one which kills him for no reason (esp an initial vote) is more likely to come from townies, in my experience which may change this game because I just said that aloud. > > Scums like to pretend to be all serious and will refuse to vote for their fellow scums unless they see a strong logical case they can agree with. > > But of course they’ll vote for townies for any reason, or none. LOL. Chronos was all serious and didn’t like my random vote for DS until I attached BS reasoning. > [@Chronos](#): > > You contradict yourself. If Scum will vote for Townies for no reason at all, then the one who kills a guy for no reason is likely to be Scum voting for Town. > > But in practice, we don’t see much of that around here. Around here, if someone votes for someone else for no reason, it’s usually just evidence that the person doing the voting is **Askthepizzaguy** : Most of us won’t vote for anyone without a reason, regardless of our alignment. > > Also, vote analysis is a tool, yes, but it should not be overestimated. You’ve never seen my vote-analysis program in action, but I say in all seriousness that I believe it to be the most accurate analysis possible, given the data of who voted and unvoted for whom on which days. And the skilled players around here can still fool it. Just analyzing who votes for whom isn’t enough: You also need to analyze their reasons for it (something a computer can’t do). And to do that, there need to be reasons. Immediately seizes upon my “contradiction”. I never did see his vote analysis tool in action. Easily dismissed. > [@Chronos](#): > > …I’m not really sure where you’re going with that argument, **pizza**. Yes, random voting will defeat any attempt at vote analysis, whether done via computer, or by humans. Scum want to defeat vote analyses, and so there’s a reason for a Scum to vote randomly. But why would a Townie ever want to vote randomly? Townies don’t want to defeat vote analyses; Townies want to _help_ the analysis. > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > What tools does town have to not vote randomly right now? > > 1. No one has died and flipped town or scum > 2. There’s no vote record, save for Askthepizzaguy. You’re welcome. > 3. There hasn’t even been a detective result yet. > 4. Some players haven’t even shown up to the party. > > You can’t analyze something that isn’t there. > > Attempts at analysis come later. The trouble will come when random votes won’t work anymore and the reasons have to be based off of real reasons. > > Saying this guy doesn’t behave the same way as the others is the best thing you could possibly come up with for day one and it’s still going to be nearly as reliable a reason to vote as a random number generator this early. > > Later, reasons will have depth to them. > > We can’t get to later until we get past the now. And if there’s votes placed on scumbags now, that places pressure on the scum team, even though we don’t know exactly what we’re doing. > > I don’t need to know if I’m right, I don’t need to have justifiable reasons to vote for Darth Sensitive. If he happened to be scum, and someone else voted him today, I just made his whole opening miserable. > > And I’m delighted to be a part of that. Later: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17104099&postcount=177](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17104099&postcount=177) \*\* wevets votes Chronos.\*\* Also Stickler, Idle, and Astral. > [@Chronos](#): > > First off, to **Rysto** : > > Voting for both of the main contenders has as much weight as voting for neither of the main contenders, something which we see in single-vote games, too. In the endgame, this can be bad, and players should look out for it and call people on it, but in the early or mid game, you can and should vote for whom you find most suspect, regardless of whom others are voting for. This may mean voting for neither or both of the two front-runners. > > To clarify my vote on **Mahaloth** , since it’s related to **sinjin** ’s vote for him: I’m not actually putting much weight on **Storyteller** ’s warning against mass-claiming. Several people have already chimed in to say that they think their clue would best be left unrevealed for one reason or another; likely clues like those (whatever they are) are what **Storyteller** was warning about. But **Mahaloth** said that he saw no harm in revealing his own clue, and urged others to reveal theirs, but still didn’t do it. That’s a suspicious lack of commitment, and Scum generally try to avoid too much commitment. > > Which I think also addresses **wevets** ’ vote on me. > > On another note: [septimus’ clue](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17104591&postcount=187) is consistent with his [earlier statement](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17102056&postcount=133) that it was both something the Scum would already know, and that it introduces layers of WiFoM. I can see why he was reluctant to claim earlier. > > And on a purely bookkeeping note, **Dizzymrslizzie** , I don’t think your vote in [169](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17103711&postcount=169) counts. We don’t have the [vote] tags on this board; you need to do the color yourself. More BS regarding Mahaloth’s obviously evil scum motivation to reveal everyone’s clues. > [@Chronos](#): > > I’m assuming that he intends the vote to stand, and that that’s just his way of acknowledging that it’s a somewhat silly vote. > > IIRC, that was one of the reasons I voted for you in the Arkham game, that you were playing conservatively. Don’t know if that counts as being used “effectively”, though, given that you did survive a good long time in that game. > > And as an aside, I’ve never been able to understand how someone can know their own Scum tells in the first place. If I knew what my own Scum tells were, I wouldn’t do them, and they’d stop being tells. But that’s a discussion that’s better had between games, when we can trust each other. Talks to me some more. ATPG analysis part 1 > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Guess I’d better do that scum hunting thing. Theory is all well and good but we have non-theoretical scumbags afoot. > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by **Mahaloth** [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/images/buttons/viewpost.gif](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17100196#post17100196) Does anyone have a clue that would be bad to post? I’m favoring posting all of our clues based on mine. > > This post feels like a natural and real reaction to having a non-dangerous clue, and what a townie will think, reacting to that. > > I had a similar reaction myself, but paused and thought that it may not be the case for everyone and that mass reveals could make it easier for the scums to guess the setup of the game. So I remember having this very organic reaction, and I give Mahaloth solid town lean for it. > > Those of you in his shoes with a similar non-dangerous clue should also have had that reaction. Think about it. > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by **Chronos** CLUE: James Moriarty, the Scum leader, can lose his Godfather status under some conditions. > > \*\*The clue that Chronos has could be a real clue given to him as a scumbag, or even a cover clue given to his cover role, which doubles as useful information to James Moriarty. > > I don’t know how I feel about Chronos yet, but his clue is just as useful for the scums to know as the townies.\*\* Awwwwwww yeaaaahhhh. \*Almost \*makes up for me having no clue what I was talking about regarding DaphneBlack. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by **Chronos** [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/images/buttons/viewpost.gif](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17100771#post17100771) Oops, another page. > > > > Fish or cut bait. If you think it’ll help to post yours, go ahead. If you don’t think it’ll help, don’t push others to. But pushing for everyone to post their clues while not doing so yourself looks fishy to me. > > > > **Vote Mahaloth** > > I think this vote does nothing to find scum. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D Awwww yeaahhhh. > [@](#): > > Next: > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/…&postcount=177](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17104099&postcount=177) > > Big post by wevets. > > I disagree with 3 of those votes and am neutral on the fourth. > > Good effort but I think you’ve missed the mark, and/or I’d need further convincing. > > Neutral on Chronos. You might get me there, but he’s got meat in his posts and I hate to kill that on Day 1. Maybe later. > > Show me more about how scummy he is. So far, all you’ve done is point out his Mahaloth vote is weaksauce. Sure, it is, but is he scum for weaksauce votes? > > Doubtful. What else you got? Curious about others opinions on Chronos since he’s seemingly going to be one of our big discuss-y talker guys. Gahhh. \*\*Wevets \*\*was still closer to the mark than me. Good work wevets! > [@Chronos](#): > > OK, this is mostly going to be in response to **Pizza** , just because he’s done a lot of talking: > > Vanilla claims are far safer for Scum than power claims are. Anyone who claims a power role first of all risks a counterclaim, and second must account for how they’re using their powers. Both of those are always risky. Claiming vanilla is only risky _if_ you’re doing something active _and_ there’s either a tracker in the game or a very lucky watcher. > > And yet, you’re handing out the townie card to the same person, based on the same post. > > How do you figure? If **Mahaloth** turns out to be Scum, it’ll do a lot to find Scum. Now, I don’t _know_ whether he’s Scum… do you? > > Funny, whatever else you might say about **Daphne** , I think that post is 100% true. I’m sure that she doesn’t have any idea who Estelle Anderson is, because _nobody_ has any idea who Estelle Anderson is. Google doesn’t have any idea, either. > > You missed a third possibility: Your clue is false, and Langdale Pike doesn’t exist. If that’s the case, then anyone claiming to be him is lying and should be lynched. If. Which means that, if someone does eventually claim to be Langdale Pike, your clue doesn’t really tell us what that person’s alignment is. > > And just for a change, something posted by **Astral Rejection** : > > Vague “pings” don’t mean anything, and **Pizza** ’s reasoning on **Daphne** is basically nonexistent. Or are you saying that you just want to know someone else suspects a person before you’ll vote for them? Because that’s not really great, either. > > I dunno, maybe **Pizza** really does just suck this much at playing as Town, though I doubt it. But who’s worse, the fool or the fool who follows him? > > **Vote Askthepizzaguy > Vote Astral Rejection** AAAAAAAND THERE IT IS!!! > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Chronos instantly gets +1 scummy points for this post. Methinks I’m itching a tender spot that the scums are wont to scratch. > > [Tu quoque](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque) is the accusation made by scumbags that I have seen the most over my many years playing this game. > > Surely Chronos doesn’t suck this badly at being a townie. 😉 BAZINGA :D:D:D:D:D > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Hypocrisy is the cheapest of all charges to level against a townie. For they (townies) are forever on a mission to make others die… for wanting to make others die. Forever voting others for voting others. They find lurkers to be lurky, after having just lurked. Being aggressive towards those who are aggressive. Being defensive about being defensive. Voting someone who was third on the wagon, and in so doing, becoming someone who is also third on that person’s wagon. > > You too, says the scumbags. When a townie is at their most townie, they are still vulnerable to tu quoque, the last refuge of the most miserable and unimaginative of scumbags. > > I fart in your general direction, Chronos. > > 😃 # Incoming ROFLCOPTER! …… {-ROFL.. .._)(_… > [@Chronos](#): > > OK, done catching up. Obviously the biggest thing I missed (though only just barely, it looks like) is **Daphne** ’s claim. Personally, I’m in favor of letting claimed power roles, especially information-gathering ones, life at least for the first couple of days. She’ll have to post investigation results now, which means if she’s lying, there will be plenty of opportunities to expose her lies. I also agree with **Astral** that if she is lying, the real Sherlock should wait a bit to counterclaim. > > On the duplicate clues, **Scathach** said that he didn’t notice **gnarly** ’s clue-claim at the time he posted his. I’m inclined to believe that that’s true, regardless of **Scathach** ’s alignment. It could still be that **Scathach** is Scum and just didn’t notice; I don’t think missing something like that is something that’s particularly Townie or Scummy either one. Whatever the alignment of those two, it looks likely that **Silver Jan** ’s clue that some clues are duplicated is accurate, so I’m reluctant to conclude anything from that. > > Speaking of Scathach, from [post 290](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17110435&postcount=290): > > Keep in mind, **Texcat** is also the one who [speculated that the Scum might have meta-information on the clues](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17101821&postcount=130). In that case, _any_ clue could potentially help Scum, if they know something like “Dr. Watson knows how ties are resolved”, or something like that. More Chronos. > [@Chronos](#): > > ``` > Quote: > Quoth [**Johnny Bravo**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17110881&postcount=313): > > ``` > > 1. My suspicion leads me to consider the following possibility: the scum have a clue that reads something like, "there is no player whose character is named “Sherlock Holmes.” I concede that this is a bit far-fetched. > Let’s just nip that one in the bud. From the rules: > Quote: > 2.Sherlock Holmes is Town; James Moriarity is the Scum leader. Any other suppositions regarding the alignments of specific characters from the Sherlock Holmes canon ought to be regarded as potentially suspect. > Quote: > Quoth **DaphneBlack** : > > Chronos: [more of a comment] You have made some pretty strong assumptions about my role, about which I have remained silent. I don’t like that post of yours. > The only assumptions I can see that I’m making are that Sherlock Holmes is a power role, and that that role is an information-gathering one, both of which seem to me to be quite reasonable assumptions. If I’m making any other assumptions, I’m missing what they are: Please point them out. Moar. > [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > i subscribe to this. the risk of counterclaim is greater. > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by **Chronos** [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/images/buttons/viewpost.gif](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17106759#post17106759) > > OK, this is mostly going to be in response to **Pizza** , just because he’s done a lot of talking: > > > > \*\*Vanilla claims are far safer for Scum than power claims are. Anyone who claims a power role first of all risks a counterclaim, and second must account for how they’re using their powers. Both of those are always risky. Claiming vanilla is only risky _if_ you’re doing something active _and_ there’s either a tracker in the game or a very lucky watcher. \*\* Haha! Wrong again. Sorry gnarly, you bet on the wrong fruitbasket this time. CTD part II ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/723 "2014-02-27T17:47:49Z")
Le Grande Summary of Chronos, PART II (The awful love story with clunky dialogue episode.) And also some other assorted shifty characters. Watch out for that Senator guy who became the Chancellor, he seems like an evil dude. > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > **Unvote DaphneBlack** > > **Vote ATPG** > > It’s not much but I don’t like the fact that he called out the unusual Day setup in post 81 and then appeared to forget there’s no night twice later on. As a side note, this is precisely when IS started smelling of bovine excrement. > [@Chronos](#): > > Some folks have mentioned that there’s a tendency to lynch the loud, so I thought I’d go through and see if there’s anyone who’s been lurking to avoid attention. From what I can see, there are seven players who haven’t yet gotten any votes (in order that they appear on the player list): Johnny Bravo, Wevets, DiggitCamara, Rysto, Lightfoot,Captain Klutz, and Pleonast. Of those: > > **Johnny Bravo** is one of the more prolific posters in the thread, and his posts appear to have substance. He’s chiming in on major topics, voting, and giving reasons for his votes. He passes. > > **wevets** has had only six posts since PMs were sent out: [Receipt of PM](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17098996#post17098996), [a little discussion of clues](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17100059#post17100059), [a bunch of player analyses and votes](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17104099#post17104099), [a short reply concerning that post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17104137#post17104137), [an explanation of a vote by **sinjin** , and [URL=“http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17104146#post17104146”]a minor NETA to that](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17104142#post17104142). I like the big long post analyzing players, but it was early enough to go largely unnoticed, and he hasn’t posted anything meaty since then. > > **DiggitCamara** has also posted only six times since the PMs went out: [Confirming his PM](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17098754#post17098754), [some general theory talk about random votes and clues](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17101815#post17101815), [More on clues](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17101846#post17101846), [finding sinjin’s reactions to look townish](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17106249#post17106249), [votes **Daphne** (whose wagon was gaining steam) for vague reasons](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17106255#post17106255), and then [unvoting **Daphne** after her claim](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17112112#post17112112). Very little here, but there’s something. > > And I note that he does actually have a couple of votes on him, from [Johnny Bravo](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17110445&postcount=291) and [Daphne](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17110720&postcount=308), neither of which I noticed unvoting. > > **Rysto** is off to a slow start, but he said before hand that he was going to be busy off the board, and he does at least have [one vote](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17111258#post17111258) and [some back-and-forth concerning it](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17113322#post17113322). Pass for now, but I’d really like to see more from him. > > **Lightfoot** has only two posts so far: [A very belated check-in](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17110772#post17110772), and a [no time to catch up](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17113287#post17113287) post. Not good, but it probably is actually due to not noticing, and so wouldn’t reflect on her alignment. > > **Captain Klutz** has 11 posts since the game started, but honestly, I can’t see anything of substance in them, and he hasn’t even voted. This is very, very bad. > > And I thought at first that **Pleonast** hadn’t checked in at all, which is a problem for the mod, not for us. But he did actually [check in](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17098789#post17098789), so he knows the game has started, but hasn’t posted since then. Now, **Pleonast** is another player (like **Idle** who tends to claim immediately, which (as mentioned) is problematic for a Scum. Maybe he decided that the way to avoid claiming was just to not post? > > I’m going to > **Vote Captain Klutz > Vote Pleonast** > for their lack of participation. Moar Chronos. > [@Chronos](#): > > OK, **Silver Jan** , that post is just weird. The way I see it, [you voted TexCat for a reason that had nothing to do with a slip](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17110971&postcount=318), then [**TexCat** made the post that I’m assuming is the putative slip](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17111066&postcount=332), then [**Dizzy** voted **TexCat** for that putative slip](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17111295&postcount=343), then [**TexCat** asks **Dizzy** about that vote](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17113375&postcount=369), and then you respond to that by apologizing that it’s not a slip after all and unvoting? Moar > [@Chronos](#): > > Again, **Pizza** , you’re assuming that Langdale Pike even exists. If, for instance, he were a Scum cover identity, then your assumptions about him would be very dangerous. Or, for that matter, it’s possible that he’s not only a cover identity, but you’re a Scum yourself and manufactured your clue to support a teammate. > > As an aside, it looks like the character of Langdale Pike, in the Sherlock Holmes canon, was a professional gossip-monger. Which is a fitting character, I suppose, to have a false clue. > > In any event, I don’t see the clues being possibly false as all that big a deal, since almost all the information we get in a game is possibly false. We’ve just got to go with what seems most likely, and that applies as much to the clues as it does to any other source of information. Moar talking to Pizza. > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > I find it highly unlikely that I was given a clue about a person who does not exist in this game, and even less likely that I am scum. > > If you are trying to convince me that I’m scum, you’re wasting your time. I know it goes without saying that you have that in abundance, but there are more productive uses for you. Immediately dismisses Chronos obvious nonsense post. > [@Chronos](#): > > **Pizza** , I think **gnarly** means that the Scum might know everybody else’s clues in addition to their own. While that would fit with the flavor of Moriarty sending out all the invitations, I don’t think it would make much sense as a game mechanic, since it would give them too much information. > > And obviously, I’m not trying to convince you concerning your own alignment. But this isn’t a private discussion, and anyone else in the game can also read what I’m writing, and draw their own conclusions about it. You’re encouraging the Town to make dangerous assumptions, and whether you’re doing it deliberately or not, Town needs to be warned of the potential danger. > > On another note, welcome, **Pleonast** , but I trust you understand that your uncharacteristic reluctance to claim, especially when we’ve already had a claim to our presumed primary power role, doesn’t do anything to make you look less suspect. Moar. > [@Chronos](#): > > **Darth** , even if all of the duplicate clues happen to be Townies, that wouldn’t make for a masonry, because we don’t actually know that all of the duplicate clues are Townies. Well, maybe someone has a clue that says that, but if so, they haven’t spoken up yet, and even if they did, we wouldn’t know if that clue was true, either. > > Meanwhile, going the other way and saying “One of the duplicated clues must be a Scum” doesn’t say very much, either. We’ve got four people so far with duplicated clues, so picking one of them gives you about a 1 in 4 chance of catching Scum. Which isn’t much better than you’d get just from ignoring the duplicated clues entirely. > [@Chronos](#): > > I should mention, before we get to the last day of the Day, that I might unexpectedly be unavailable during the day on any given weekday (and really hope that this will happen often). I’m currently working as a substitute teacher, and don’t know until the morning of whether I’m going to be working on any given day. > [@Chronos](#): > > OK, so it turns out I do have some time today, but not much before the deadline, so I’ll keep this brief. > > Town should never ignore any claim, since Town should always be looking for consistency or the lack thereof. If a person claims vanilla, but later claims something else, they’re a liar, and should be lynched. If someone claims vanilla, but is later caught by a Watcher or Tracker as taking an action, then they are a liar, and should be lynched. If someone claims a power role, but then are shown to somehow be inconsistent with that power role, then they are probably a liar, and should be lynched. Town needs all the information we can get, and claims are a huge amount of information, and thus should never be ignored. > > Now, as for this particular game, the argument against early claims is that they make it easier for the Scum to figure out who the power roles are. This argument has not disappeared entirely in this game, but it is weakened, now that we have a claim for what’s presumably a major power role. Given that you are usually willing to claim early despite that argument, and that you are not willing to do so in this game where the argument is weaker, I assume that you have some other reason for not wanting to claim, and the simplest explanation is that you don’t want to claim because you are Scum. > You’ll note that I am not voting for **Dizzy** , the current #1. I understand the case on her, but I’d rather wait to see how she accounts for it. If her account is unsatisfactory, or if she goes for long enough without addressing it, I would vote for her. As it is, though, until then I would prefer to lynch **Pleo** , **Astral** , or **Pizza** , so I’m keeping my votes on them. More from the head scummo. Pleo, Astral, or Pizza, eh? Well, it’s not the Pizza man. I briefly considered smashing Pleonast to bits and then held steady my hand. That just leaves Astral. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17120472&postcount=531](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17120472&postcount=531) Useful EOD vote tally. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17120587&postcount=535](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17120587&postcount=535) Pleo votes Chronos, others. > [@Chronos](#): > > **Pleonast** , I was assuming that, given that Sherlock Holmes is the most famous detective in history, and given that “detective” is the most common power role in the game of Mafia, that the character named “Sherlock Holmes” in this game would be a detective or something very similar. This seemed so obvious to me that, at the time I made the assumption, I didn’t even realize that it was an assumption at all. That said, however, it is possible that the assumption was in error. If it was, then I shall stand most humbly corrected. I certainly am not trying to plot to get **Daphne Black** lynched, as she is currently the most trustworthy person in the game. It’s conceivable that we will eventually lynch her anyway, but not without at least a counterclaim (and then it would depend on who’s doing the counterclaim, and on what evidence the two claimants can present). Chronos promptly responds to Pleonast’s threat. > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > **Vote: Inner Stickler** > > You die. > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > **Vote ATPG** > > It’s tacky to add another townie’s blood to your hands when you haven’t even had time to wash off the blood from the first one you killed. Keep an eye on this guy. > [@DaphneBlack](#): > > The game is a foot! I am alive! The door is ajar! > > **vote Chronos** > [@Chronos](#): > > Any reason for that, **Daphne**? Scum HATE no-reason votes. Tee hee. > [@Chronos](#): > > OK, now that I finally have some time and have caught up again, I don’t yet see anything to cause me to question my D1 votes. All of these, except possibly Mahaloth, are consistent with a Scum push to save their own by lynching Dizzy. > > **Vote Mahaloth > Vote Astral Rejection > Vote Askthepizzaguy > Vote Pleonast** > > This is about as many votes as I want to have in place, so if I see anything more suspect from anyone else, I’ll probably drop one of these. As a reminder, the vote on Mahaloth was for his inconsistent and noncommittal attitude toward the clues; the votes on Pizza and for Astral were for getting the Daphne wagon rolling and jumping aboard it, respectively, without any good justification from either; and the vote on Pleonast was originally for lurking but then changed to be because of his uncharacteristic lack of claim and ignoring of major issues. Mahaloth: Loudly disagreed with this vote since the very beginning. Astral: Not thrilled with that one. Pulled his ass out of the fire personally. Askthepizzaguy: Come and get it. Hot and stubborn as ever. Pleonast: Even made myself look like a flake reversing and considering him townie. Nope, don’t think so. Mayyyyybe Astral, come to think of it. Why not? 😉 > [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > i see you’re from the school of lynch all liars. there are several instances when it’s advantageous for town to lie. get out of the 1900s. 😉 > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by **DaphneBlack** [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/images/buttons/viewpost.gif](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17121670#post17121670) > > **Chronos** , my good sir, I think you know why. > > \*\* aw, spill it.\*\* > > * * * > > i’ll continue my votes from yesterday. > > \*\* Texcat \*\* > \*\* Astral Rejection \*\* > > i’m not seeing why \*\*Johnny Bravo \*\* would be killed by a vig. could he have killed by a scum with an extra kill who was in danger of being lynched? Interesting reaction to Daphne. > [@sinjin](#): > > [vote] > > Mahaloth > > AskthePizzaGuy > > Chronos[/vote] > > Same reason as before on **Mahaloth** but more so since all he has posted since then is MEH. I can quote it if you want. He is STILL confused by clues and has contributed nothing but his “confusion” about clues. > > Same on Pizza; spam, spam, spam plus the new metaphysical bs at the end of Day 1. Are you on mushrooms or something or were your last 20+ posts in Day One just some sort of performance art? > > Chronos, cause I believe Holmes/Daphne. Quickly picks up on Daphne’s reveal. Still think the Mahaloth votes are all crap. Same for the Pizza ones incidentally. > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > **Vote Chronos** > > DB, I would disagree about the towniness of such a move. I would consider it no better than neutral pretty much regardless of which Day it happens. The appeal to scum is far too great if a townie is in the crosshairs and that’s far more likely this early in the game. > > I understand that dizzy’s votes weren’t particularly meaningful but to me at least they didn’t taste duplicitous. They felt like someone who didn’t have any particular leads but wanted to contribute and then be done. If dizzy were scum, I’d have expected to see more of a direction in her arguments and votes. While there are scum who can do these tossed off sort of votes in a natural feeling way, I don’t think she is one. Gotta vote for Chronos at this point. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17124491&postcount=600](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17124491&postcount=600) The Chronos claim. > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Your power was one-shot? > > I look forward to your death confirming Lightfoot’s towniness. Here’s some false bravado. > [@Pleonast](#): > > Actually, it may not be best policy to lynch **Chronos** right now. > > The best way to maximize the information gain from the lynch is if it’s in dispute (see Day One). If there’s little dispute about lynching **Chronos** , we gain no information from the lynch. > > Why would we not lynch **Chronos** immediately? Because 1) we may have a pro-town killer who can do the job for us. And 2) they’re not the last scum and lynching them will not prevent a pro-scum kill. > > If there’s a large consensus to lynch **Chronos** , I suggest we postpone their lynch and try to find another scum ToDay. If **Chronos** is alive on Day Three, we proceed to lynch at that point, since any hypothetical pro-town killer declined or failed to kill the obvious scum. > > I’ll leave my vote on **Chronos** for now, since them are the most likely scum in my opinion. Here’s a suggestion unlikely to happen and doesn’t make Pleonast look good in light of Chronos’ imminent flip scum. Hence, Pleo is very likely townie. > [@Darth\_Sensitive](#): > > Why are you voting **IS**? > > Oh. Ok then. > > In the same vein as my late vote on you yesterday, you seem awfully quick to throw out a vote with no reasoning behind it. > > **Vote Askthepizzaguy** > In addition, **Vote Chronos** due to his presence at the nightkill without us having another possible culprit. Silly DS is silly. > [@septimus](#): > > **Vote: Chronos** > > Scum other than Chronos? I do read and reread but have no suspicions other than the mildish ones for which I voted yesterDay. > > I do rely on your guidance, Askthepizzaguy, which is usually excellent when you’re Town, as I think you are this game. But I need more than this to add Inner Stickler to my suspect list. Nothing more will be forthcoming. I have no tools with which to prosecute folks but their damningly bad accusations of obvious townies and even crappier votes on me personally. Now to vote! ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/724 "2014-02-27T17:49:27Z")
**Vote Inner Stickler** You die. **Vote Sinjin** You die too. **Vote Gnarlycharlie** You die three. [http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/227/262/a%20meme.jpg](http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/227/262/a%20meme.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/725 "2014-02-27T17:59:17Z")
I think it would be useful for the person my clue refers to, to come forward now. Either you have false info or I do. So what’s the info? ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/726 "2014-02-27T18:01:22Z")
lol. whatever floats your vote. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/727 "2014-02-27T18:04:42Z")
Somehow, the “Therefore, Mrs. Henderson must be the murderer!” schtick is less convincing when it happens after the confession. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/728 "2014-02-27T18:10:43Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Somehow, the “Therefore, Mrs. Henderson must be the murderer!” schtick is less convincing when it happens after the confession. Ah yes, except for all those posts which happened before the confession. The summary of Chronos was for reference, to indicate who he spoke to and what he said to them. And also his weaksauce offense. Meanwhile, you’re still guilty. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/729 "2014-02-27T18:13:58Z")
Of being awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/730 "2014-02-27T18:18:26Z")
> [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > lol. whatever floats your vote. 😉 😃 You seemed to know Daphne caught a scum and wanted her to firmly indicate that, rather than say, being in suspense all round. I get that she’s Holmes, and that she was indicating that she caught a scum. I’m able to pick up on all that. However, it’s also common practice for a known detective to vote for someone and softly indicate their voted party is guilty just for reactions. Those who seem to know for a fact that Daphne caught a scum before it became obvious that that was what was happening, rather than Daphne simply pressuring someone, well… speaks of potential inside knowledge. Whoops, I mean [this](http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRDdRWqWC74WNOZ-3w9jQObnZZBnMuQKhb0vUl7iSi2zCeG-4m9aw). I mean, it’s a tiny, minor thing, but it’s got a better than random chance of being correct. More interesting to me is the Stickler n’ Sinjin show. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/731 "2014-02-27T18:20:02Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Ah yes, except for all those posts which happened before the confession. And yet, somehow, you didn’t bother to vote for him until a clear bandwagon had raised its head. You take great delight in reviewing your posts after the fact and labeling them as insightful or traps or non-essential as best benefits whatever narrative you want to push. As a result, I don’t really care what you say, beyond who you vote for. I do not see that you were agitating for Chronos’ lynch until the last possible moment. **Vote ATPG** ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/732 "2014-02-27T18:20:25Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Of being awesome. And false bravado. Way to come down hard on Moriarty after he was obviously caught, you know, rather than beforehand. For basically the entire game. Pointing out his nonsense. Like me. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/733 "2014-02-27T18:22:02Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > And yet, somehow, you didn’t bother to vote for him until a clear bandwagon had raised its head. Correct! Because I don’t have inside knowledge he was guilty. False bravado man. Get that caught scumbag! Get those townie points! Woohoo! So townie now! Definitely more townie than the guy who said don’t even bother scanning me, remove me from play entirely, next round, after Chronos. Come and get it! Pizza is ready to die, as long as you specifically come down with me. Mwahahahahahaha!!! ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/734 "2014-02-27T18:23:02Z")
inner stickler has the inner scoop on the inner sanctum of the inner circle of MORIARTY J’accuse obviously guilty scummy scummy scumbag! You SO DIE!!! Hahahahhahahahahahahaha ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/735 "2014-02-27T18:24:51Z")
To be perfectly honest I didn’t suspect Chronos any more than any other player on Day 1. I don’t pretend to be some awesome scum-sniffer. I just try to evaluate the current situation and take the most logical course of action as I see it. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/736 "2014-02-27T18:25:17Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Your power was one-shot? > > I look forward to your death confirming Lightfoot’s towniness. Oh Stickler, this post is 99% of a confession. Thank you so much for making my work easier. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/737 "2014-02-27T18:29:00Z")
Ok, then. I must say, it’s rather exciting being the focus of so many of your posts. It’ll be so sad when the denouement fail to live up to your hype. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/738 "2014-02-27T18:31:27Z")
[![](https://i.huffpost.com/gen/862317/thumbs/r-PAPA-JOHNS-BOYCOTT-MEME-large570.jpg?4) ](https://i.huffpost.com/gen/862317/thumbs/r-PAPA-JOHNS-BOYCOTT-MEME-large570.jpg?4) Oh, Daphne, if you did scan me against my advice, hold on to that until later. Want to see who else piles on to obviously innocent Pizza. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/739 "2014-02-27T18:32:29Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Ok, then. > > I must say, it’s rather exciting being the focus of so many of your posts. It’ll be so sad when the denouement fail to live up to your hype. Then start hunting scums. You can’t seriously believe you’ve found a guilty scum in me. If you do, you deserve to die because you’ll never find scums until Daphne points them out to you. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/740 "2014-02-27T18:37:38Z")
Do you need a juicebox and a nap or something? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752.md?page=38)