# Mafia: Baker Street \[Game in progress\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 7, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752 "2014-02-07T14:39:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 42
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/821 "2014-03-04T17:34:49Z")
[QUOTE=storyteller0910] **Welcome to the game; you are Molly Hooper** ROLE TYPE: Investigative ALIGNMENT: **Yours** (Town) WIN CONDITION: You win when all of Mine (Scum) have been eliminated. \*Dear Miss Hooper – I hope this letter finds you well; I do hope you’re not still CROSS with me over that thing where I pretended to love you and crushed your spirit even further than it’d already been crushed. But if you are, I’d like to make it up to you by extending you an invitation to attend a party at my home this Tuesday evening. You might wonder why we’d need a morgue drone at a friendly gathering. If you DO wonder that, then you’re even dumber than you were that time where you thought I loved you. SEE YOU TUESDAY! \* ## POWERS: Alone in the morgue each night you can go through the pockets of one of the dead to discover their clue. And I’ll bet you think that sounds like FUN! CLUE: There are multiple groups or systems that might be described as Masons in Mafia terms, though not all are Masons in the traditional sense. [/QUOTE] N1 I looked through Dizzy’s pockets and discovered, CLUE: Scum players have all been given complete, detailed false identities, including clues. N2 I had a choice between Chronos and JohnnyBravo. Chronos had allegedly told us his clue, and I was not 100% certain of his death and so I chose Johnny. I have debated sharing his clue and I’m still not sure it’s the right thing to do. CLUE: There is a Scum player who does not have access to the Scum boards at the outset of the game. The majority of the Scum do not know this. After this odd post from Darth, I’m wondering if he’s the one who does not have access to the Scum boards, and did not know that Chronos was the godfather. > [@Darth\_Sensitive](#): > > Upon further rereading: > > > [@TexCat](#): > > > > My first thought was, uh-oh, another false clue from scum, trying to look townie. But on second look, I am inclined to believe this one. Surely if Diggit were scum, he would have posted this clue yesterday rather than today. > > Why would **Diggit** have assumed that **chronos** was the godfather and posted said clue yesterday? He’s given it some thought and said that he’s reread, and yet he doesn’t think that a scummy Diggit would know that Chronos was the godfather? Darth posted his views when prompted by Daphne, but I noticed that he did not include anyone that she didn’t ask about. No views on Mahaloth, no views on Idle, just the minimum required and I still think that his bandwagon vote on me is crap. > [@Darth\_Sensitive](#): > > I didn’t get the votes on \*\*TexCat \*\*on day one at all. As I said at the time, they were pretty crappy votes that weren’t worth following along with. But it was the leading lynch at the time the out of nowhere bandwagon on \*\*pleo \*\*hit very hard and fast, as lead by the godfather. > > Pizza makes very little sense. He follows your lead on D1, then is late to the chronos train which is also following you, but is now blasting those who voted chronos soon after your vote - even though he spent the start of today patting himself on the back for ‘knowing’ that chronos was scum all along, even though he was unwilling to actually, you know, vote for him until there was concern about him being a politician that could swing the lynch. Additionally, see what I’ve said about him on the pleo thought. > > I’m not giving any extra credence to astral right now with an early vote from the godfather, but it certainly doesn’t hurt him. But he hasn’t done anything to change my perception of him from slightly selfish VT I said day 1 (though I do agree with whoever it was that said it’s not all bad, what with knowing you’re town and not knowing the other guy is town - I do it too). > > I still look askance at pleonast for repeating a clue. However, the fact that he got hit with three LtL votes that put him in danger of dying, the first of which came from scum (an incredibly easy to defend vote that wouldn’t get him in hot water later) makes him look much better. I would guess there’s another scum in those who voted him (lightfoot, mahaloth, myself, pizza [who encouraged further bandwagoning before unvoting when it became clear that you were in favor of killing dizzy], astral). > > \*\*Vote Texcat > > Vote ATPG\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/822 "2014-03-04T17:47:58Z")
> [@DiggitCamara](#): > > I specifically disagree with anyone who defends anyone else. It shows knowledge that the average townie simply cannot have. This is not a reassuring policy. If I vote for player X for a terrible reason, and you vote for me because my reason is terrible, are you “defending” X? That is exactly analogous to what I’m doing. I disagree with the votes on TexCat for easily communicated reasons, which have been explained. You either agree or disagree with them, and vote accordingly. There’s no way you can demonstrate I’m showing insider knowledge by pointing out how weak those votes are. Plus, I have a clear and vested reason in defending TexCat, because the rationale for voting for her is the same rationale as voting for me, as evidenced by the fact that _people are voting me for those reasons._ ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/823 "2014-03-04T18:04:00Z")
BTW, I looked through the last 5 games on Idle’s board to test this theory about scum voting to defend themselves and the evidence does not really back it up. On Day One, twice out of the five games, scum was lynched. In one case because of a scum slip, and in the other case because fellow scum didn’t bother to vote on the opposing wagons. Of the three games where town was lynched on Day One, one game had all townies in contention, one game had 3 townies and a scum as a distant fourth in contention, and exactly one game came down to a scum vs townie lynch where the townie was lynched. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/824 "2014-03-04T19:27:26Z")
Reacting to TexCat’s claim: **Unvote: TexCat** **Vote: Darth Sensitive** ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/825 "2014-03-04T20:02:54Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > This is not a reassuring policy. If I vote for player X for a terrible reason, and you vote for me because my reason is terrible, are you “defending” X? That is exactly analogous to what I’m doing. > > I disagree with the votes on TexCat for easily communicated reasons, which have been explained. You either agree or disagree with them, and vote accordingly. There’s no way you can demonstrate I’m showing insider knowledge by pointing out how weak those votes are. Plus, I have a clear and vested reason in defending TexCat, because the rationale for voting for her is the same rationale as voting for me, as evidenced by the fact that _people are voting me for those reasons._ I seem to have a completely different understanding of your current posts and of my policy. I usually don’t vote for someone whose posts I disagree with (“terrible reason”). They have their ideas and I have mine, and I might try to argue against them but that’s as far as I would go.l I also wouldn’t defend someone who’s on the receiving end of a vote, even if the voter simultaneously went directly against me, for the same reasons. I would argue against the reasoning, probably, but I would still not defend my co-votee because I simply cannot vouch for them. Sorry, but your arguments simply don’t put you in the best of lights over here. Thus, my vote stands. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/826 "2014-03-05T04:41:01Z")
**Current Vote Count** Texcat (5): Idle Thoughts, Mahaloth, gnarlycharlie, Silver Jan, Darth Sensitive Askthepizzaguy (4): Inner Stickler, Mahaloth, Silver Jan, Darth Sensitive Astral Rejection (4): Idle Thoughts, gnarlycharlie, DiggitCamara, Askthepizzaguy gnarlycharlie (2): DaphneBlack, TexCat Idle Thoughts (2): septimus, TexCat septimus (2): Idle Thoughts, TexCat Mahaloth (2): TexCat, Askthepizzaguy Darth Sensitive (2): TexCat, DaphneBlack Pleonast (1): Mahaloth Darth Sensitive (1): gnarlycharlie Inner Stickler (1): sinjin Silver Jan (1): TexCat septimus (1): DaphneBlack wevets (1): DaphneBlack ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/827 "2014-03-05T04:42:33Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > I see that kind of behavior often from scums. It’s called White Knighting someone. > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Speaking of which, I am guilty of White Knighting TexCat. > > TexCat should probably vote for me for doing that. :smack: So I’m scum because I’m white knighting TexCat. You’re white knighting TexCat too, _for the exact same reason_, but you’re _totally_ town, right? ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/828 "2014-03-05T05:01:17Z")
**Vote Askthepizzaguy.** This might come as a surprise to you guys, but I don’t want to see TexCat swing. Askthepizzaguy is the next closest candidate minus myself. All game, it feels like Pizza has been daring town to lynch him. Or scan him. No, don’t scan him! Wait, yeah, scan him. Everything he says is exactly what he feels, except when it isn’t. Then it’s just a clever ploy to trick scum into agreeing with him. Or disagree with him, that’s telling too. He has told us exactly how to catch him, _which is worthless advice._ He has told us exactly how to treat his actions, _which is worthless advice._ [Post 722](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17146977&postcount=722) is him gloating about “catching Chronos” when it’s all after-the-fact interpretations of his actions. Inner Stickler sums that whole mess up very succinctly here, and I agree. > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > And yet, somehow, you didn’t bother to vote for him until a clear bandwagon had raised its head. You take great delight in reviewing your posts after the fact and labeling them as insightful or traps or non-essential as best benefits whatever narrative you want to push. As a result, I don’t really care what you say, beyond who you vote for. I do not see that you were agitating for Chronos’ lynch until the last possible moment. > > **Vote ATPG** I think this is a weak on Mahaloth, and I don’t believe it comes from a townie mind-set: > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > **unvote all** > **Vote Mahaloth** > > If he still thinks I’m scum at this point, he can be excused from the game. > > I put pressure on gnarly and that didn’t do much. Let’s try Maha. > > Who wants a dead Mahaloth today? > > I am townie and am willing to be scanned tonight to prove it. I also don’t trust the TexCat wagon. Is this vote because OMGUS? Just because you claim he’s wrong about your scumminess? Just for pressure? You list all three, and the way you’ve phrased this vote makes it feel like they’re mutually exclusive thought processes, just tacking on reasons one after another. And, finally, your white knighting comment. I don’t see a town player voting based on a behavior, then realizing they do that behavior too, and _then lampshaded that fact_ rather than reconsider their vote. J’accuse! ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/829 "2014-03-05T05:01:29Z")
Darth’s and Septimus’s votes seem to be divided in your tally. I show Darth with 4 votes from Gnarly, Me, Daphne, and Septimus. And he deserves a few more. Septimus I believe has 3 (2 with my unvote below). **unvote: Idle unvote: Septimus unvote: Gnarly** I think Idle is misguided but not scummy. Septimus and Gnarly I am unvoting because of their votes on Darth. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/830 "2014-03-05T05:07:55Z")
Oops, you’re right. DaphneBlack, nowish would be a great time to drop any info you might have. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/831 "2014-03-05T06:41:54Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > N1 I looked through Dizzy’s pockets and discovered, CLUE: Scum players have all been given complete, detailed false identities, including clues. > > N2 I had a choice between Chronos and JohnnyBravo. Chronos had allegedly told us his clue, and I was not 100% certain of his death and so I chose Johnny. I have debated sharing his clue and I’m still not sure it’s the right thing to do. > CLUE: There is a Scum player who does not have access to the Scum boards at the outset of the game. The majority of the Scum do not know this. I don’t believe your claim and here’s why: Because I have that same clue, only it’s different (regarding one word)…so I think **JohnnyBravo** had the same clue that I do and you changed it to make it sound better than it is because you’re scum. That’s for one. For two, what on EARTH made you think this was a good thing to share? Now you know precisely why I didn’t want to share mine. My reasons for not wanting to tell them this clue was because PUBLICALLY telling scum that there’s a secret scum player among them **DOES NOTHING TO HELP TOWN.** Nothing. Benefit is nada. What good does it do? _It changes nothing._ Info is still the same for Town which is: There are an unknown number of scum that have to be killed. But for SCUM…well, now they KNOW something they didn’t know before. They are the only ones who gain new information with this reveal. It only benefits them, it doesn’t benefit Town in any way to know that. Anyway, that was MY reasoning for not revealing the clue (which, again, isn’t exactly the same as the one you found–there’s a key word in mine that changes things considerably…but that STILL only benefits Scum and not Town). YOU, on the other hand…I think you’re scum who thought that sharing this would be a good idea and give you Town cred. Well, I don’t believe it. I think you’re scum. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/832 "2014-03-05T06:45:18Z")
To make things a bit more clear: I think Texcat is WITHHOLDING information in JohnnyBravo’s clue (which appears to be the same as mine **SAVE FOR THE PART/WORD SHE LEFT OUT** ). Thus, I think she’s scum who thought it was a good idea to share that clue but didn’t want to reveal all of it. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/833 "2014-03-05T06:50:23Z")
Would the part TexCat left out be beneficial to town by excluding it? Can you think of a rationale for TexCat to omit that portion of the clue? Because if not, it looks like I was really, really wrong about TexCat. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/834 "2014-03-05T06:51:59Z")
Here’s a question, by the way, **Texcat.** In **JBravo** ’s clue, there should be a word UNDERLINED. I’m betting it’s the same word that is underlined in MY clue. What word is it? ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/835 "2014-03-05T07:04:48Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Would the part TexCat left out be beneficial to town by excluding it? No. Just like her revealing the clue that she did isn’t beneficial to town (as far as I can see). Seriously. What benefit did what SHE SAID the clue said have for Town? As far as I can see, it only benefits scum. That’s why I think she’s scum who thought that it’d be “Town-like” to share that info (because I think any true Townsperson would easily see it didn’t have any benefit to Town). > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Can you think of a rationale for TexCat to omit that portion of the clue? If she’s Town, I can’t think of any reason she’d omit that portion at all…being that she’s apparently willing to say it the way she did (which is still bad, IMHO) But if she’s scum, the answer changes to yes. Yes, because the added word/info I got tells MORE about the scum side…which–if she were scum, it wouldn’t matter if she revealed it all publicly because all the scum would already know what the real clue said…but **then she’d be hiding the extra info from Town also**. This is what I think she’s doing. I think: A. She thought it’d be a Townie thing to do to reveal this clue and B. She didn’t count on anyone else having the same one, so she changes the clue in order to hold back a little info. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/836 "2014-03-05T07:17:10Z")
In case I wasn’t clear in my post above: What **Texcat** shared is BAD…because as far as I can see, it only benefits scum. My clue is WORSE…because it benefits scum even more. The part that was withheld from **JohnnyBravo** ’s (which is what my clue reads EXACTLY except for one changed word) reveals even **more** info to scum. So let’s say **Texcat** was Town: Well, then why would she reveal as much as she did in the first place? Let’s say she’s scum: In that case, either scum already knows the full info (but Town doesn’t know the extent of it) and she’s lying here to keep the extra info from town… …OR, it’s even possible that **SHE’S MAKING THAT POST AS A SUBTLE MESSAGE THAT SHE’S THE SCUM PERSON THE OTHER SCUM DON’T KNOW ABOUT.** ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/837 "2014-03-05T07:37:28Z")
I can’t think of any reason why Town would hold back a bit of their clue once they have decided to reveal their clue. So far the duplicate clues have been identical, maybe Texcat thought all the duplicate clues had been revealed and decided to take a chance. My vote is definitelty staying on her now and I am even more inclined to think she made a slip on D1 about the double clues that scum have. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/838 "2014-03-05T10:50:18Z")
Idle, I have no idea what you are on about. I did not omit any words from JohnnyBravo’s clue, I just checked my post against my PM. I revealed it because I think it implicates Darth Sensitive as scum. I agree with Daphne that Darth has been playing very clean, not committing to any positions and trying to stay out of trouble. I, on the other hand, have stuck my nose into everything, had an opinion about everything which has gotten me into trouble. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/839 "2014-03-05T12:23:37Z")
Idle’s claim and commentary does raise suspicion and make me question my Unvote of TexCat. @ Idle – does your clue contradict TexCat’s? Or is it instead a clue which, if true, implies that TexCat’s is also true? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752/840 "2014-03-05T12:26:10Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Idle’s claim and commentary does raise suspicion and make me question my Unvote of TexCat. > > @ Idle – does your clue contradict TexCat’s? Or is it instead a clue which, if true, implies that TexCat’s is also true? (By “TexCat’s clue” I mean the alleged JohnnyBravo clue shown by TexCat.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752.md?page=41) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-baker-street-game-in-progress/680752.md?page=43)